Members Doctor Morbius Posted March 26, 2009 Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 Lowbrow recently filled me in on a topic at TGP about the ethos for Fender's thin skin nitro guitars as being more resonant than their poly counterparts. I read the thread in full and am left with even more questions than when I began. Below are a couple of pics the guitar in question. It is a think skin Eric Johnson Strat. Here is the auction (NOTE: not mine). We've all heard the debate. We know there is the pro nitro camp and the pro poly camp. Actually, I don't think it's as much of a pro poly camp as much as it is an indifference between the two. I don't care to rehash that debate here, but rather inform those who may not be in the refinishing business what actually constitutes a thin skin nitro in Fender's eyes. After having seen these pics, provided this is a typical example, all I can say is that in my mind the think skin debate in production guitars is over. I'd rather have a guitar finished in thin poly than this particular version of not-so-thin nitro. If anyone here has pics of their poly or nitro finishes down to the wood, please post them. On to the alleged thin skin nitro guitar. I've seen relief maps that weren't like this. If this is THIN then I'm quitting my diet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vantango84 Posted March 26, 2009 Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 that's thin compared to my first strat. My first strat's finish was at least one cenimeter thick, maybe two or more. Haven't seen that guitar in like 5 years, so it's hard to remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lost_Cause Posted March 26, 2009 Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 So wait, this ADDs $1000 value? I guess I should leave my guitars out in the weather for a while and reap the rewards. I like the finish on the trem. This guy calls this a "1957 1958 Fender Stratocaster Blackie USA 56 57 Relic ". I didn't know they made an Eric Johnson in 58, 57 or 56. I know what it is, this guy seems to be streching it a bit far though. He is going all the way to make some money off of what was probably a really beat up EJ 2005 when he got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cylon Posted March 26, 2009 Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 {censored} nitro i hate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Verence Posted March 26, 2009 Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members metallica_00 Posted March 26, 2009 Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 I guess if that's "thin" then that begs the question how thick it was before Don't have any pictures of my Heritage down to the bare wood (hope that doesn't happen anytime soon!!!!! ). My G&L is poly and it sounds very good. But I like the feel of the nitro. On the Heritage its just glassy smooth and feels like it is part of the guitar rather than sitting on top of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doctor Morbius Posted March 26, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 I guess if that's "thin" then that begs the question how thick it was before THANK YOU! That's the purpose of the post/thread. Finally someone gets it. That's exactly what I'm thinking. If that is indeed an example of thin skin nitro, how thick is their regular nitro finish? I realize Fender has high production quotas compared to a smaller independent builder. But still, that finish looks too thick to have been called thin skin. For all I know, the guitar in that auction is an MIM poly body that has EJ bits on it. Hopefully someone here will know if it's an actual EJ or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Raskolnikovs axe Posted March 26, 2009 Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 that's thin compared to my first strat. My first strat's finish was at least one cenimeter thick, maybe two or more. Haven't seen that guitar in like 5 years, so it's hard to remember. there's no way this is right...do you realize how much paint that would be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DonK Posted March 26, 2009 Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 I'm pretty much indifferent to the poly/nitro debate, and I don't for the most part buy into the "thinner finish" equals increased resonance on electric guitars (though I certainly think it's a factor on acoustics). That said, I bought a bunch of new Fenders the early 70's, and I held on to two of them - both Strats - for quite a few years, such that the finishes got chipped in places (though I never actually wore through the finish anywhere from playing). Those two had very thick finishes, much thicker than what's showing in those EJ pics. One of them actually had a sunburst finish that was covered by a black finish. I also bought a Strat Plus in '96 that I sold last year. The only blemish it had was a a chip near the strap pin that unfortunately penetrated to the bare wood. It was probably 1/2" long and 1/8" wide, enough so that you could see that the finish was quite thick, again much thicker than on the EJ in your pics. Finally, my 14-YO son has a MIM Strat from 2005 or so. It got knocked off its stand one day while he was at a rehearsal and he ended up with a quarter-sized chip in the finish near the body strap pin. Since the guitar is white, the contrast with the wood shows the thickness of the finish really well: again, the finish is VERY thick. My first reaction when he showed it to me (he thought I was going to be angry over it) was, "man, that's like a coat of armor!" It looks like a Brazil nut when you crack off just a piece of the shell (with the colors reversed, of course ) Too tired tonight, but if the thread is still hanging around tomorrow, I'll post a pic. It'd be interesting to see pics of various Strats to see how they compare: I hope someone posts some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vantango84 Posted March 26, 2009 Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 there's no way this is right...do you realize how much paint that would be? I swear to god I'm not making it up. After the primer, the color, and it honestly looked like they primed and painted it again, and then the clear, you could see it had like 3-5 distinct layers. I remember about what it looked like, and I remember me and everyone that saw it in that condition being completely shocked at how thick the finish on it was. It seems like the finish being that thick would {censored} up at least SOMETHING that had to be mounted to the guitar....... Okay, it was definitely no more than one cenimeter.... but it was a LOT thicker than you'd think. I'd say three or four times as thick as the OP in this thread, easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DonK Posted March 26, 2009 Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 I swear to god I'm not making it up. After the primer, the color, and it honestly looked like they primed and painted it again, and then the clear, you could see it had like 3-5 distinct layers. I remember about what it looked like, and I remember me and everyone that saw it in that condition being completely shocked at how thick the finish on it was.It seems like the finish being that thick would {censored} up at least SOMETHING that had to be mounted to the guitar.......Okay, it was definitely no more than one cenimeter....but it was a LOT thicker than you'd think. I'd say three or four times as thick as the OP in this thread, easy. That really sounds more like a millimeter (or maybe two or even three) than a centimeter. A centimeter is just shy of half an inch (.3937" to be exact). Pickguard screws would barely penetrate to the wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doctor Morbius Posted March 26, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 Thanks DonK. Yes, please post some pics. Would love to see them and how they compare. By the way, some of the guys in the thread on TGP are saying that the Road Worns have a true thin skin finish on them. Next time I go to GC I'll have to give them a closer look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DonK Posted March 26, 2009 Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 So wait, this ADDs $1000 value? I guess I should leave my guitars out in the weather for a while and reap the rewards. I like the finish on the trem. This guy calls this a "1957 1958 Fender Stratocaster Blackie USA 56 57 Relic ". I didn't know they made an Eric Johnson in 58, 57 or 56. I know what it is, this guy seems to be streching it a bit far though. He is going all the way to make some money off of what was probably a really beat up EJ 2005 when he got it. The whole relic thing just escapes me.... I try, but I'll never understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doctor Morbius Posted March 26, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 ... Pickguard screws would barely penetrate to the wood. They'd have to use deck screws on the pickguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DonK Posted March 26, 2009 Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 Thanks DonK. Yes, please post some pics. Would love to see them and how they compare. By the way, some of the guys in the thread on TGP are saying that the Road Worns have a true thin skin finish on them. Next time I go to GC I'll have to give them a closer look. If one was into the relic thing - and I'm not - the Road Worns would be interesting except that the maple board versions are so fake looking that I'd be embarrassed to be caught with one. The wear consists of more or less straight, contiguous removal of the finish at each fret position, as if someone took a Dremel with a sanding bit to it. It looks NOTHING like normal lacquer fretboard wear (the EJ in your eBay link shows what the real deal looks like; Clapton's "Brownie" Strat on the back of the Layla album is an even better example). It's like looking at someone wearing what purports to be Rolex and then noticing that the second hand moves in discrete jumps: the sign of a quartz - rather than mechanical - movement. It shouts FAKE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doctor Morbius Posted March 26, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 If one was into the relic thing - and I'm not - the Road Worns would be interesting except that the maple board versions are so fake looking that I'd be embarrassed to be caught with one. The wear consists of more or less straight, contiguous removal of the finish at each fret position, as if someone took a Dremel with a sanding bit to it. It looks NOTHING like normal lacquer fretboard wear (the EJ in your eBay link shows what the real deal looks like; Clapton's "Brownie" Strat on the back of the Layla album is an even better example). It's like looking at someone wearing what purports to be Rolex and then noticing that the second hand moves in discrete jumps: the sign of a quartz - rather than mechanical - movement. It shouts FAKE. I'm not into the relic thing either but I would like to check out the road worn bodies just for the sake of the thickness and application of the finish. I plan to refinish an MIM Strat and I would like the finish to be a good bit thinner than the EJ example above. If all goes well I will consider refinishing some of my keepers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DonK Posted March 26, 2009 Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 I'm not into the relic thing either but I would like to check out the road worn bodies just for the sake of the thickness and application of the finish. I plan to refinish an MIM Strat and I would like the finish to be a good bit thinner than the EJ example above. If all goes well I will consider refinishing some of my keepers. I'm building a project Tele with my son right now. We're using a Warmoth body and Warmoth neck. We're trying to do a thin finish. We've got a few coats of ReRanch's "clear orange" on it, and we're almost ready to give it a couple of coats of clear lacquer. It's not really orange: I chose the color to mimic a custom Hugh Manson Tele-style guitar I came across in a book I was given years ago called "The Complete Guitarist" (the guitar is pictured on p. 37 if anyone is interested; the book is still in print and is pretty popular). It's the most gorgeous Tele I've ever seen. Simple but elegant. The color is sort of a deep amber: like a good ale. The one in the book has a beautiful birdseye neck/board, but our neck/board is just quarter-sawn maple. We're going with a GFS P-90 at the neck and a GFS Fatbody Overwound Tele pup at the bridge. I think it's going to be pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elias Graves Posted March 26, 2009 Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 The poly on the SG I'm stripping is maybe a little thicker than what you showed here, but not by much. I'm still debating what I'll put on it. Probably a lacquer, but not necessarily nitro. EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DonK Posted March 26, 2009 Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 The poly on the SG I'm stripping is maybe a little thicker than what you showed here, but not by much.I'm still debating what I'll put on it. Probably a lacquer, but not necessarily nitro.EG I was just checking out your pics to see how the finish compared, but your sanding was feathered so I couldn't really gauge the thickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twanguero Posted March 26, 2009 Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 "it has Beautiful Acoustics" classic:thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fulcrumpoint Posted March 26, 2009 Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 By the way, some of the guys in the thread on TGP are saying that the Road Worns have a true thin skin finish on them. Next time I go to GC I'll have to give them a closer look. Doc, The Road Worn has a far thinner finish than the "thin skin" I have 2 of each in the store I work at now...I would rather own the "thin skin" though. I have tried out quite a few road worns and I am still not fond of their build. The body and electronics are about the only thing I like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaleH Posted March 26, 2009 Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 The question is , What did the {censored}tard do to the guitar to do that damage. Should have his teeth pulled using a tin can lid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elias Graves Posted March 26, 2009 Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 Here's a straight on from the edge. You can see it fairly well. It's a little fuzzy, but you can see the thickness. EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DonK Posted March 26, 2009 Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 The question is , What did the fucktard do to the guitar to do that damage. Should have his teeth pulled using a tin can lid. It doesn't really resemble play wear on the body, does it? The finish looks like it was chipped off - possibly with a chisel - rather than worn off. Not the best relic job I've seen, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sk8centilli Posted March 26, 2009 Members Share Posted March 26, 2009 If I'm not mistaken, the only part of the "thin skin finish" is that brown stuff between the black and the wood. When Fender announced the 2008 Standards they boasted: "A thinner finish undercoat that lets the body breathe and improves resonance." Although when you look at the specs it does state that the Standard is urethane - so I'm probably talking about my Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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