Tube Amp Volume

[nuke_diver]

We always hear that tube amps sound best when cranked and I know that is true. However most time for a lot of us cranking the amp isn't an option due to family members/neighbours or even the room being just too small.

 

Is cranking the amp and then rolling back the volume control going to give the same effect or does that defeat the whole point

 

For the record I did try this at home and I didn't notice a tremendous difference but my ears aren't the best (I can't hear the difference between a really good cable and a really cheap one for example )

 

Just curious to hear what other more experienced guitarists think

[JC777]

Power Attenuator.

 

Rolling down the volume of the guitar won't help much.

[metalheadUK]

We always hear that tube amps sound best when cranked and I know that is true. However most time for a lot of us cranking the amp isn't an option due to family members/neighbours or even the room being just too small. Is cranking the amp and then rolling back the volume control going to give the same effect or does that defeat the whole point For the record I did try this at home and I didn't notice a tremendous difference but my ears aren't the best (I can't hear the difference between a really good cable and a really cheap one for example ) Just curious to hear what other more experienced guitarists think

 

To get classic tube tone, you need to be pushing the power valves.

 

In normal circumstances this can get pretty loud.

 

Hiking up the master and keeping the gain down can help.

 

turning down your guitar just cuts the input going in, and the signal will probably be too weak to overdrive the amp in the desired manner.

 

[Prages]

To get classic tube tone, you need to be pushing the power valves. In normal circumstances this can get pretty loud. Hiking up the master and keeping the gain down can help. turning down your guitar just cuts the input going in, and the signal will probably be too weak to overdrive the amp in the desired manner.

 

Yep.

[wagdog]

I've heard attenuators can help.

 

Typical tube overdrive means hitting the power amp hard, and to do that, things have to get pretty loud. Even on the 8w class-A tube amp I built, when it gets loud enough to overdrive the power tube, it's really loud.

[Cap'n'Budda]

We always hear that tube amps sound best when cranked and I know that is true. However most time for a lot of us cranking the amp isn't an option due to family members/neighbours or even the room being just too small. Is cranking the amp and then rolling back the volume control going to give the same effect or does that defeat the whole point For the record I did try this at home and I didn't notice a tremendous difference but my ears aren't the best (I can't hear the difference between a really good cable and a really cheap one for example ) Just curious to hear what other more experienced guitarists think

 

Rolling down the gutiar volume will decrease saturation/distortion, but doesn't have much effect on volume. What you need is an amp with a master volume - that will actually decrease the volume while retaining preamp distortion.

[jaxn slim]

If you are just playing at home for your own amusement, you don't really need the optimal tones all the time anyway. Just put the volume on 3 and use an overdrive pedal. That will usually sound very good if you are using good gear.

 

If you are doing recording, as was already mentioned, an attenuator is your best bet.

[Prages]

 

If you are doing recording, as was already mentioned, an attenuator is your best bet.

 

 

It depends on how much of the signal you're attenuating.

 

When I had my JCM 800, it sounded much better to me at a loud, but tolerable volume with a dirt pedal in front of it than it did with an attenuator on it and the volume cranked, but brought back down to the loud but tolerable level with the attenuator.

 

I'd say the same would hold true for most amps. It also depends on how good your OD pedal sounds. I've got a Barber Direct Drive Super Sport in front of my Fender Bassman, and I doubt I'd like the tone any more if I were using an attenuator instead, though I sold my attenuator when I sold the Marshall, so I've never attenuated the Bassman.

[Dthraco]

 

Power Attenuator. Rolling down the volume of the guitar won't help much.

 

 

+1

[ten56gibby]

JC777 got it right.

[golias]

I don't care much about tone quality when I'm practicing at home. As long as I can hear myself clearly, that's all that really matters.

 

When I was starting out, practicing through a good-sounding amp was important because it made it more fun. These days, the BIG fun comes from the performances, not the preparation.

[metalheadUK]

I don't care much about tone quality when I'm practicing at home. As long as I can hear myself clearly, that's all that really matters. When I was starting out, practicing through a good-sounding amp was important because it made it more fun. These days, the BIG fun comes from the performances, not the preparation.

 

 

Agreed about priorities, but I LOVE playing at home, jamming with people, recording etc.

 

And I'd love to be gigging 5 nights a week or touring, but that's just not happening at the moment, and I need to sound good everywhere.

 

I've gone for a great live sound and a great home sound.

 

Mostly my home sound comes from either a low wattage tube amp, or far more often a modeller.

 

Modellers need to be dialed in to find the sweet spot, just like an amp, but they do it sounding great at low volume.

 

Something like a 2nd hand Vamp2 must cost next to nothing now, and it sounds great at low volumes run through almost anything, and is in real terms far more practical and versatile than a generally "1 or 2 good sounds" low wattage tube amp.

 

Mind you, there is a lot to be said for 1 or 2 GREAT tones, but for me, a Modeller gets close enough that I dont generally miss not plugging in to my tube amps at home.

 

[nuke_diver]

 

If you are just playing at home for your own amusement, you don't really need the optimal tones all the time anyway. Just put the volume on 3 and use an overdrive pedal. That will usually sound very good if you are using good gear.

 

 

I do this primarily and it sounds good enough to me I was mainly curious if it was a function of the setting (higher voltage applied to the tubes) or the input signal.

 

And I was also thinking in terms of overall performance not just overdriving the amp but clean as well.

[LaXu]

IMO the whole cranked amp thing is overrated. There are plenty of amps that get pretty much all their tone from the preamp and don't need to be cranked to sound great. I spent tons of time chasing that cranked amp tone only to realise I can get the tones I want from purely preamp based gain.

 

Volume is still important for good tone, only there's a big area between "too quiet" and "way too loud" where the really good tone lives.

[Cap'n'Budda]

 

IMO the whole cranked amp thing is overrated. There are plenty of amps that get pretty much all their tone from the preamp and don't need to be cranked to sound great. I spent tons of time chasing that cranked amp tone only to realise I can get the tones I want from purely preamp based gain. Volume is still important for good tone, only there's a big area between "too quiet" and "way too loud" where the really good tone lives.

 

 

This is the right approach. Amps that do their thing totally via the power amp were rendered obsolete by the Mesa Mark I.

[ashasha]

I had to go the attenuator route myself and that was with just a 5W tube amp.

 

I still can't believe just how frickin loud 5W's of overdriven tube actually is.

 

 

You will lose some of your highs though...only way that I got around some of that was by installing a bypass cap and even then it's still a bit of a tone sucker to be perfectly honest.

[johanneswiberg]

I'd like to hear some recordings of this; the same amp with the same recording equipment, guitar and player, recording at hi-gain but low master setting, and then with high master volume setting.

 

It's hard to compare when you're actually playing it because of the difference in volume, but I wonder what the difference will be when it is recorded and can be properly compared.

[Ancient Mariner]

 

This is the right approach. Amps that do their thing totally via the power amp were rendered obsolete by the Mesa Mark I.

 

 

It depends what you want, but overdrive from the power valves doesn't have that fizzy MESA preamp quality to it. If pre-amp drive is what you want then you're correct.

[metalheadUK]

It depends what you want, but overdrive from the power valves doesn't have that fizzy MESA preamp quality to it. If pre-amp drive is what you want then you're correct.

 

Yep.

 

I've never heard an amp with the pre amp gain up not take on that "fizzy" quality. If you want that then I bet a solid state amp could do it just sweet.

 

maybe it is the volume adding to the experience, but there really is something magical in standing in front of a cooking tube amp turned up to the sweet spot and just hitting a {censored}ing great big A chord!

 

And then letting it tail off as the feedback builds....

 

[metallica_00]

 

IMO the whole cranked amp thing is overrated. There are plenty of amps that get pretty much all their tone from the preamp and don't need to be cranked to sound great. I spent tons of time chasing that cranked amp tone only to realise I can get the tones I want from purely preamp based gain. Volume is still important for good tone, only there's a big area between "too quiet" and "way too loud" where the really good tone lives.

 

 

I agree. I actually prefer the sounds I get with my pedals than the sounds I get from my Deluxe Reverb cranked to powertube distortion. My old Mesa Boogie sounded more or less the same whether at home or on stage - all preamp distortion. And I like my pedals more than that amp too.

 

 

I've never heard an amp with the pre amp gain up not take on that "fizzy" quality. If you want that then I bet a solid state amp could do it just sweet.

 

 

Well that's why you don't turn your pre amp gain up to 10! I actually find in many cases power tube distortion is anything but smooth and sweet, even on some really nice amps. Which sometimes is a good thing and sometimes isn't.

 

I guess I've found for the sounds I like to get and the amps I've owned, I've actually gotten the best results from pre gain. I think there is an ideal point where the amp is running a bit louder than home volume and doesn't sound so constrained, but that's my approach at least.

[rogers6210]

Something like a 2nd hand Vamp2 must cost next to nothing now, and it sounds great at low volumes run through almost anything, and is in real terms far more practical and versatile than a generally "1 or 2 good sounds" low wattage tube amp. Mind you, there is a lot to be said for 1 or 2 GREAT tones, but for me, a Modeller gets close enough that I dont generally miss not plugging in to my tube amps at home.

 

Just what I was going to suggest.