Members steve_man Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 Thanks for that answer; it's helpful.Can you help me understand what the purpose is, or what effect is achieved, by putting a tube in the preamp (ala the Kustom) versus putting a tube in the power amp circuit (ala the Valvetronix)? I'm not really looking for overdive so much as I am for sparkling (or shimmering, or Fender-like, however you describe it) cleans. Which configuration would come closer for that? If you're looking for a great clean tone...the Super Champ XD has that nailed. I just sold my Hot Rod Deluxe, and the clean channel on my Super Champ is more "Fendery" than my Hot Rod was.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scottpower Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 My Music Man amps sound great. They are a transister pre and tube output though. I'll say that you can get a great sound out of full transister amp and modelers. http://www.plunder.com/-download-f679904c80.htm All Pod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kevman Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 There is one critical piece of information you have to remember: a tube in the pre-amp is basically pointless, at least in the naive configuration that amps like that Kustom use. It was one of the early approaches to improve solid-state sound, and it just doesn't work. It improves it, sure, but it doesn't really accomplish that much in the end.The Vox approach that is used in the Valvetronix and ToneLab is NOT to use a tube preamp, as such. Instead, what they do is to provide a digital modeling preamp, and then configure a 12AX7 as a very small power amp. The result of that stage is run into a normal solid state amplifier. The Fender SCXD and VCXD are similar, but they go farther by providing a real tube pre-amp and power amp both.This is more or less why Vox gets a nice warm tone while Line 6 and Roland rape your ears. So which is it? Does a preamp tube just not work because it is pointless, pointless because it just does not work, or does it actually improve the sound? Your last statement is funny. Lots of players out there using Line 6 and Roland gear that sound great. Must be you. Besides isn't this all subjective anyway? What may make your ears bleed could be somebody's holy grail of tone. I tend to prefer either all tube or all solid state amps but I did have a Peavey Deuce with a solid state preamp and 6L6 power section that sounded great clean while taking pedals very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Offday Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 The Vox Valvetronics I've played, I was impressed, almost bought one.Every Kustom I've ever tried out in the stores lacked anything even remotelyspecial. Don't know about their "all tube" units are, but that's not what this is about. One Hybrid I was Always fond of was the Fender RocPro, It had a nice gain stage, yet was simple and rugged, Unfortunitely they quit making them, I still shop for them, I'll buy one if I stumble on a deal. To me sometimes simpler is better, Less in the circuit, less to go wrong.You might look for around for a used one, I would defenitely try to play one first before just buying so you can form your own opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Will Chen Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 ...I tend to prefer either all tube or all solid state amps but I did have a Peavey Deuce with a solid state preamp and 6L6 power section that sounded great clean while taking pedals very well. Yep, the Mace (a higher powered version of the Deuce) was used by Lynyrd Skynyrd...Must have been because those Southern boys didn't know that hybrid amps didn't sound good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members m90guy Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 It was explained to me that vox actually uses the 12ax7 as a preamp tube and a power tube which is why matched and balanced triodes are not necessary. This info was from Vox itself. I own ad120vth head(which has 2 12ax7's), and reguardless of whatever, the thing sounds phenominal on the fender and vox settings. I still play the thing as much as my other tube amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members goldsparkletop Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 Thanks for that answer; it's helpful.I'm not really looking for overdive so much as I am for sparkling (or shimmering, or Fender-like, however you describe it) cleans. If you're looking for shimmering clean tones, heck, there are full on solid state amps that can accomplish that nicely. It's the overdriven tones where most folks find solid state lacking. The solid state Roland JC120, for example, is considered by many to be the ultimate shimmery clean amp. Listen to the clean intro of Metallica's "Enter Sandman" or "Nothing Else Matters" to hear what this amp sounds like. This amp won't give you a distorted channel, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JohnnyLarge Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 I have a Vox AD15VT. The older version. I bought it for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EADGBE Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 I played a Marshall Valvestate years ago and it sort of sounded like a regular Marshall solid state amp. I'm thinking an amp with a transistor preamp and a tube power amp would sound more like an all tube amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oldskool Texas Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 I am looking for sparkling (or shimmering, or Fender-like, however you describe it) cleans. Which configuration would come closer for that? IMO, Fender's famous cleans come from having tons of headroom -- high wattage amps like the Twin Reverb are difficult to send into overdrive without totally cranking the volume. I haven't heard many hybrid amps that do this as convincingly as a tube amp; it's almost as though they assume you'll want some break-up tones in every 'model'. That said, the Superchamp XD has one really nice Fendery-clean voicing, although the stock speaker doesn't handle high volumes all that well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mymindsok Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 If you really don't know what a tube amp is supposed to sound like, I'd suggest that you buy a used Fender and play it untill you come to grips with what it can and does do. (I say Fender, because you mentioned "Fender cleans". To get that, the best thing to use is a real Fender amp. I say this because there are several hybrid amps (Like the old Peavey's that are collector's items to Pedal Steel players!) that are well known for thier clean tones but the tones arent really "Fender Cleans", theyre "Peavey cleans" Lots of gigging pros like to use hybrid amps and solid states. It's a matter of choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Krashpad Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 That said, the Superchamp XD has one really nice Fendery-clean voicing, although the stock speaker doesn't handle high volumes all that well. That's why I use mine as a stage monitor, and line out to a head running a 15. In between the SCXD and the 15 is a solid state PA head, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JesusCrisp Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 Hybrid amps are more or less just for marketing. That doesn't mean they sound bad, but the majority of them isn't worth the money. The tube(s) in hybrids don't have a big effect on the sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Will Chen Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 Hybrid amps are more or less just for marketing.That doesn't mean they sound bad, but the majority of them isn't worth the money. The tube(s) in hybrids don't have a big effect on the sound. The tubes in a hybrids can have a profound effect on the sound if the amp is designed as such. For example the old MusicMan amps had a solid state preamp and a tube power amp. Cranked the amp introduced tube power amp breakup. Same for old Peavey hybrids of a similar design. The Fender Cyber Twin and a tube preamp, digital switching solid state tone stack, digital effects and a solid state power amp and you better believe each stage affected the tone (for better or worse). It all boils down to the design. Educate yourself as information is power in the consumer's hands... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twofoolsaminute Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 I've really wanted to let all the explanations of the Vox Valvereactor slide but just can't. The circuit is built to emulate the negative feedback (or not) characteristics of some amps, output transformer coloration, and different power amp configuartions (A vs AB). The tube is run at staved plate voltage and I would bet you could easily substitute a fet and not hear any difference. Anyone truly insterested in the Vox circuit needs to go check out Teemu Kytt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bebenavole Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 I have an original Valvestate. At bedroom levels, I think it sounds better than a tube amp. At gig levels, it falls on its face. That is so true its silly! heheheI have a VS100. It has grown on me over the years. Use it all the time. If a tube goes all i do is change it. But live?Loud? The dynamics just seem to disappear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cadillacman Posted October 10, 2009 Members Share Posted October 10, 2009 Vintage Modified Fender bassman head ..........is this a hybrid.......???.....I've heard 1 of these & they are sweet ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members diceman1000 Posted October 10, 2009 Members Share Posted October 10, 2009 i have a roland rh-150-g3 that has a 12ax7 in the pre amp.it's not horrible,but it's definately not tube.if you want tube tone,get tubes man... Damon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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