Members swolter Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 a "real" tube amp? I'm thinking of amps like the Kustom the Contender that have a tube in the preamp. Just wondering how close they come to the sound of a real tube amp, especially in terms of responsiveness. Does anyone have any experience with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elias Graves Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 I don't know that one. My Vox Valvetronix is pretty convincing. So is the Fender Superchamp. EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doctor49 Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 You can get a bit of "squashiness" or compression out of valve pre-amps - I have in the Zoom 92tt - but a lot also comes from power stage tube characteristics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LeftyTom Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 I don't know that one. My Vox Valvetronix is pretty convincing. +100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bdegrande Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 Not very similar. The characteristic sound of a rube amp comes from overdriven power tubes. If that's the sound you are looking for, some of the amps mentioned here, the Super Champ XD and the Vox Valvetronix, would be better. The Valvetronix uses a tube which is normally a preamp tube, but they use it in a power amp circuit and then further amplify it, so it sounds much different from a tube preamp hybrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members swolter Posted October 9, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 Not very similar. The characteristic sound of a rube amp comes from overdriven power tubes. If that's the sound you are looking for, some of the amps mentioned here, the Super Champ XD and the Vox Valvetronix, would be better. The Valvetronix uses a tube which is normally a preamp tube, but they use it in a power amp circuit and then further amplify it, so it sounds much different from a tube preamp hybrid. Thanks for that answer; it's helpful. Can you help me understand what the purpose is, or what effect is achieved, by putting a tube in the preamp (ala the Kustom) versus putting a tube in the power amp circuit (ala the Valvetronix)? I'm not really looking for overdive so much as I am for sparkling (or shimmering, or Fender-like, however you describe it) cleans. Which configuration would come closer for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Les Paul Lover Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 IMO, none of the hybrids I have tried sounded like the real deal. If they were that good, we'd be all buying them. We like nice gear, but we like a bargain 1st, don't we? Some hybrids are better than others, but it's still not the real thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Saint Frank Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 Thanks for that answer; it's helpful.Can you help me understand what the purpose is, or what effect is achieved, by putting a tube in the preamp (ala the Kustom) versus putting a tube in the power amp circuit (ala the Valvetronix)? I'm not really looking for overdive so much as I am for sparkling (or shimmering, or Fender-like, however you describe it) cleans. Which configuration would come closer for that? From what I'm reading on Kustom's site, The Contender is actually a tube driven preamp, meaning that the 12AX7 in the preamp section is actually the gain producing circuit and is analog in design. IOW, the tube IS the preamp. In the Valvetronix stuff the preamp is actually digital and the power amp is solid state, with a 12AX7 tube between the two to produce some of the "sag" and warmth of pure analog tube circuitry. Whether this is really achieved or not is subject to opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Will Chen Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 What is your criteria for the sound of a tube amp? Do you mean Mesa Boogie Dual Recto? Maybe a Marshall JCM800? Perhaps a Fender Bassman? Vox AC30? Each of these classic tube amps sound completely and radically different than each other. Why? The circuit design largely dictates the amp's tones. There is no reason why a great circuit, regardless of the technology used to create it, won't sound great. Don't waste time considering if an amp sounds exactly like another amp and judge it on its own merits. If it sounds good it is good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Saint Frank Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 What is your criteria for the sound of a tube amp? Do you mean Mesa Boogie Dual Recto? Maybe a Marshall JCM800? Perhaps a Fender Bassman? Vox AC30? Each of these classic tube amps sound completely and radically different than each other. Why? The circuit design largely dictates the amp's tones. There is no reason why a great circuit, regardless of the technology used to create it, won't sound great. Don't waste time considering if an amp sounds exactly like another amp and judge it on its own merits. If it sounds good it is good... That's been my criteria about all equipment for a while. I haven't played enough of these classic amps for any period of time to be able to say whether the modeling sims sound anything like the originals but I definitely find some very nice sounds out of modeling amps. That's good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grantus Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 What Will said. I'm pretty impressed with my Vibro Champ XD, and it does quite decent models of some amps, but not all the models are real exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eddie Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 If they were that good, we'd be all buying them. It doesn't work that way, especially with guitarists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members swolter Posted October 9, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 What is your criteria for the sound of a tube amp? Do you mean Mesa Boogie Dual Recto? Maybe a Marshall JCM800? Perhaps a Fender Bassman? Vox AC30? Each of these classic tube amps sound completely and radically different than each other. Why? The circuit design largely dictates the amp's tones. There is no reason why a great circuit, regardless of the technology used to create it, won't sound great. Don't waste time considering if an amp sounds exactly like another amp and judge it on its own merits. If it sounds good it is good... No argument from me. But is hard to know whether it sounds good when you don't have one, the local stores don't have one, and you can't find a demo on youtube. Just asking for opinions from anybody who has had experience with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Will Chen Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 No argument from me. But is hard to know whether it sounds good when you don't have one, the local stores don't have one, and you can't find a demo on youtube. Just asking for opinions from anybody who has had experience with them. One of the UK mags gave them a favorable review a while back If I recall correctly. If for some reason you have to have that amp then you take the gamble and make sure you put up the vids and reviews so others can leverage your opinion. Otherwise, pass on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChineseKnockoff Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 IMHO, the SCXD is freakin' amazing. I recommend it highly. Now, if money wasn't an issue I'd have a pre-CBS Princeton or Deluxe, but for 15% - 20% of what that'd cost me I'm damn close w/ the Super Champ. Or course it depends on which tube amp you're going for though. It does a great Fender clean, and a pretty good vintage Vox too. But if you're looking for an '80s super high gain metal sound then it's definitely not for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SPONGEBOB Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 never tried one I really like... You get certain characteristics, but are missing others.. All tubes is still the way to go if you want a tube sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members peavey_impact Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 Hybrid amps can sound pretty awesome, but they don't really feel and respond the same way as an all-tube amp, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elias Graves Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 Here's the deal. My Valvetronix has 22 amp models in it. Some of those amps I've heard, others not. Of the ones I've heard, I'd say they are about 90 percent there. They all sound pretty good though. I also have a Blues Jr and an AC4. The AC4 has "the sound" I want so the others don't get much use now. If you want versatility and are willing to sacrifice a bit of the sound, then the hybrid makes perfect sense. If you want one sound, the sound, then the tube amp gets you all the way there. Everything is a trade off of one sort or another. You just have to weigh your needs and decide what's best for you. In my playing, I'm looking for a very specific, ragged, raw sound. The EL84 in the Vox AC4 gives it to me without rattling the windows. Good luck and have fun. EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members photon9 Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 Here's the deal. My Valvetronix has 22 amp models in it. Some of those amps I've heard, others not. Of the ones I've heard, I'd say they are about 90 percent there. They all sound pretty good though. I also have a Blues Jr and an AC4. The AC4 has "the sound" I want so the others don't get much use now. If you want versatility and are willing to sacrifice a bit of the sound, then the hybrid makes perfect sense. If you want one sound, the sound, then the tube amp gets you all the way there. Everything is a trade off of one sort or another. You just have to weigh your needs and decide what's best for you. In my playing, I'm looking for a very specific, ragged, raw sound. The EL84 in the Vox AC4 gives it to me without rattling the windows. Good luck and have fun. EG ^^^Words of wisdom^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Promit Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 There is one critical piece of information you have to remember: a tube in the pre-amp is basically pointless, at least in the naive configuration that amps like that Kustom use. It was one of the early approaches to improve solid-state sound, and it just doesn't work. It improves it, sure, but it doesn't really accomplish that much in the end. The Vox approach that is used in the Valvetronix and ToneLab is NOT to use a tube preamp, as such. Instead, what they do is to provide a digital modeling preamp, and then configure a 12AX7 as a very small power amp. The result of that stage is run into a normal solid state amplifier. The Fender SCXD and VCXD are similar, but they go farther by providing a real tube pre-amp and power amp both. This is more or less why Vox gets a nice warm tone while Line 6 and Roland rape your ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bag302 Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 I have an original Valvestate. At bedroom levels, I think it sounds better than a tube amp. At gig levels, it falls on its face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Special J Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 I think some hybrid designs are really well done. I currently have 2 hybrid amps, a Trace Elliot Tramp which has the 12ax7 in the preamp circuit, and a MusicMan HD130 which has a solid state pre and an EL34 power section. Both are great sounding amps in their own right, but when I use them, it's because of their unique features or sounds, not because they sound like X tube amp. If I want the sound and feel of a tube amp, I use a tube amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LPSlinger Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 I had a Marshall Artist 3203 when I was younger and I think it sounded pretty convincing. Of course, it had 2 EL34 output tubes. The "hybrid" part was a solid state preamp mixed with an ECC83. Man I wish I still had that amp. I sold it to buy my Bassman so it was a good trade off...but that Marshall could rip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Krashpad Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 IMHO, the SCXD is freakin' amazing. I recommend it highly. Now, if money wasn't an issue I'd have a pre-CBS Princeton or Deluxe, but for 15% - 20% of what that'd cost me I'm damn close w/ the Super Champ. Or course it depends on which tube amp you're going for though. It does a great Fender clean, and a pretty good vintage Vox too. But if you're looking for an '80s super high gain metal sound then it's definitely not for you. I'll second that emotion. I picked up a like-new SCXD a month or two ago in a pawn ($175) to try as my stage monitor for my church rig, and I pretty much live on the clean and Vox settings. I'd tried 2 other small amps looking for a perfect fit (one solid state, one all tube) and I'm sticking with the SCXD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Will Chen Posted October 9, 2009 Members Share Posted October 9, 2009 There is one critical piece of information you have to remember: a tube in the pre-amp is basically pointless, at least in the naive configuration that amps like that Kustom use. It was one of the early approaches to improve solid-state sound, and it just doesn't work. It improves it, sure, but it doesn't really accomplish that much in the end.The Vox approach that is used in the Valvetronix and ToneLab is NOT to use a tube preamp, as such. Instead, what they do is to provide a digital modeling preamp, and then configure a 12AX7 as a very small power amp. The result of that stage is run into a normal solid state amplifier. The Fender SCXD and VCXD are similar, but they go farther by providing a real tube pre-amp and power amp both.This is more or less why Vox gets a nice warm tone while Line 6 and Roland rape your ears. I've really wanted to let all the explanations of the Vox Valvereactor slide but just can't. The circuit is built to emulate the negative feedback (or not) characteristics of some amps, output transformer coloration, and different power amp configuartions (A vs AB). The tube is run at staved plate voltage and I would bet you could easily substitute a fet and not hear any difference. Anyone truly insterested in the Vox circuit needs to go check out Teemu Kytt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.