Shamray Washburn Dime Stealth Custom REPLICA/Variation

[nanobug]

Sorry to hear that man, thats what I keep hearing, the Shamray quality is almost unmatched, that probably has something to do with the fact that they are HAND CRAFTED, other Custom Shops just don't make'm like that any more, we live in the CNC machine age and I feel that the quality of CNC made guitars suffer a bit, nothing compares to hand crafted quality. 1+1=2

 

As a machinist I think that for you, perception is reality. CNC machines are more precise than hand crafting in the hands of the right operator. Hand crafting to tolerances of .0001" is basically impossible, but commonplace on CNC machines.

 

Any perceived quality issues come more from guitars being made in an assembly line type fashion, rather than by one skilled craftsman.

[brad22386]

As a machinist I think that for you, perception is reality. CNC machines are more precise than hand crafting in the hands of the right operator. Hand crafting to tolerances of .0001" is basically impossible, but commonplace on CNC machines. Any perceived quality issues come more from guitars being made in an assembly line type fashion, rather than by one skilled craftsman.

 

A CNC-machined guitar lacks tender love & care. Not to mention blood, sweat & tears.. but I guess that's just me & my so called perceived reality.

 

Not everything in life is a perceived reality sir, not when you can clearly feel & hear the difference between a CNC-machined USA stock guitar compaired to a Hand crafted fully custom guitar built only by a Master Luthier..

[nanobug]

A CNC-machined guitar lacks tender love & care. Not to mention blood, sweat & tears.. but I guess that's just me & my so called perceived reality. Not everything in life is a perceived reality sir, not when you can clearly feel & hear the difference between a CNC-machined USA stock guitar compaired to a Hand crafted fully custom guitar built only by a Master Luthier ..

 

Okay, well my perceived reality is that you probably never stepped foot in a machine shop, while I'm a journeyman machinist who's milled parts for the USS Vinson that required tender love and care, blood, sweat, tears, and nerves of steel to avoid making a six figure mistake. My perceived reality is that I am a craftsman by trade. You're a consumer. My perceived reality is that I have far more understanding of the love and care that goes into creating things, while you buy stuff. My perceived reality is that you're {censored}ing clueless and should stop talking about things as though you're some kind of guru when you obviously haven't the slightest {censored}ing clue what you're talking about.

 

A CNC machine is a tool. So is sandpaper wrapped around a block of wood, a handheld saw, a drill press, planer, etc. One is no more superior than the other, just a different means of achieving the same result. What is important is how the tool is used, and who is using it.

 

There's something to be said for having a guitar built buy a master luthier. However, if that master luthier happened to also be an experienced machinist, and did the cutting of the body, neck, headstock on a CNC machine, then routed all the cavities and neck pocket to precise tolerances with a CNC machine, then did all the finishing work by hand, the guitar would be BETTER than if it were entirely done by hand (and by the way, what do you define as "by hand" Was your new pointy guitar cut with a power saw or shaped with a hammer and chisel? I mean, if you're going to draw arbitrary lines in the sand lets at least be clear about it)

 

Now please do us all a favor and stop spreading ignorant bull{censored}. You know br00talz. I know craftsmanship. Stick to what you know. Enjoy your spatula headstocked pointy guitar! HNGD! STFU! kthxbye.

[bigconig]

Awesome thread. I must say I am very impressed with the personal attention You received (pictures of every step, telling you who would be doing the work etc.). It's rare these days.

[brad22386]

Awesome thread. I must say I am very impressed with the personal attention You received (pictures of every step, telling you who would be doing the work etc.). It's rare these days.

 

Thank you.

 

I agree. Every Custom Shop ought to provide this level of customer service aswell as progress photos for every stage of the building process. It really helps you feel confident with your investment that way.

 

I've had a very fulfilling, interesting and educational experience working with Shamray these last few months thru emails and on the Shamray forum. I'm sure I'll get another Custom guitar built by Shamray again in the future.

[ElectricEye]

A CNC-machined guitar lacks tender love & care. Not to mention blood, sweat & tears.. but I guess that's just me & my so called perceived reality. Not everything in life is a perceived reality sir, not when you can clearly feel & hear the difference between a CNC-machined USA stock guitar compaired to a Hand crafted fully custom guitar built only by a Master Luthier ..

 

I think you should probably take it down a notch or two. There are plenty of CNCd guitars available that I'm sure plenty of people in here would chime in and say are the best guitars they've ever played. You're not going to tell me a Carvin is {censored} are you?

 

Anyway, I appreciate our enthusiasm. However, (and I know you're not, but....) the over-zealousness of your posts makes you seem like a shill for Shamray. Unless I'm mistaken, this is your first guitar from them, no? If so, your statements are kinda silly until you've had the guitar in your hands for a while. Either way, I'm sure you'll be happy with it.

[brad22386]

I think you should probably take it down a notch or two. There are plenty of CNCd guitars available that I'm sure plenty of people in here would chime in and say are the best guitars they've ever played. You're not going to tell me a Carvin is {censored} are you? Anyway, I appreciate our enthusiasm. However, (and I know you're not, but....) the over-zealousness of your posts makes you seem like a shill for Shamray. Unless I'm mistaken, this is your first guitar from them, no? If so, your statements are kinda silly until you've had the guitar in your hands for a while. Either way, I'm sure you'll be happy with it.

 

Thank you, I think..

 

Yes, I understand that CNC-machines are very accurate and there is no doubt in my mind that there are some killer CNC-machined Custom Shop guitars out there, I've played many of them in my time. I was just talking smack for fun my friend, nothing personal.

[tekuillahumppa]

I'm waiting for a final picture!

[brad22386]

I am Complete!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

Congrats man. Awesome guitar!

 

Can't wait for the video

[brad22386]

Congrats man. Awesome guitar! Can't wait for the video

 

 

Video will be here soon!!!!!

[fretmonster]

Holy snikeys that took a long ass time. I could have bought and sold four or five guitars in that time.:poke:

 

Sorry, just yankin your chain. But you really do have a lot of patience in this day and age of instant cyber-paced gratification. I do like your choice of guitars though, and though I have a Strat and Tele, they and LPs are too commonplace. I will look forward to hearing how it sounds.

[brad22386]

[brad22386]

None should ever have to endure this treachery as I have.

 

I have been beyond naive in my pursuit for a custom 3ST with my preferred specs.

 

This endeavor was far from worth it.

 

I've learned a lesson I will never forget..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its even easier to see these unacceptable defects in person..

 

 

You guys need to read their last email to me.

 

 

They have screwed me over like no other..

 

Shamray truly is a Sham & a fraud.

 

Its a very sad situation indeed.

 

 

My experience working with Shamray's customer service

representative "Michael" started out smooth and ended up

disturbing to the 10th degree.

 

After receiving my guitar and finding countless defects I

sent "Michael a few emails explaining the unacceptable of these

defects at great length all while keeping a cool demeanour for the

most part. I made it very obvious that I was very frustrated with

the so called finished product. I made a very firm yet civil

argument in my last email to "Michael" about what I wished to be

done to rectify the situation of my poorly crafted dream Guitar.

 

The following Reply "Michael" sent in him response to my concerns

and question was any thing but sensible, mature, respectful or

professional. All I received was endless unacceptable (and for the

most part non-sensible) excuses for the shop's mistakes and

negligence involving my guitar's extremely poor build and paint

quality. "Michael" dug deep with personal insults, remarks and

opinions that can not be interpreted in any other way than as

classic defensive character assassination to avoid any future

retribution or reconciliation concerning my sad excuse for a 3000$

hand crafted Custom Shop guitar. He followed up in the email by

threatening to some how get my source of income here in Canada

revoked in a sad attempt to intimidate me into giving up on the

issue .

 

At the very end of the last email "Michael" will ever be

sending me he also proceeded to inform me that he had banned my user

account from the Shamray forum. His motives for doing this is very

obvious. Banning a customer from the forum to quell any kinds of

complaints to prevent this kind of second rate workmanship from

being known to other customers and an emailed statement to the

customer (aka me) that any further contact will be ignored is by no

means professional and is in extremely poor personal character. I

just can't believe this has happened, I never in my wildest dreams

thought I'd be at the other end of a fraud of this nature involving

Shamray. Its far beyond disappointing, its disturbing on all all levels.

 

I have great suspicion that the shop manager and (or) "Michael"

delayed sending me my guitar as to ensure that any disputes of

quality, or possible refunds would not have the possibility to be

acted upon. I have been banned from their forum with no good reason.

My IP address has been blocked so that I cannot post on the company

forum about my claims and complaints. "Michael" has clearly stated

in his last email reply that any further contact with him thru email

or any other form of communication will be ignored completely. I can

only assume they have voided my so called "Shamray lifetime

warrantee contract" for with out any valid probable cause.

 

I will most definitely take legal action if I can though I fear that

is not possible unfortunately, seeing as Russia may be outside International Law..

 

Let my review be a much needed omen to any one reading this who has

even considered doing any kind of bussiniess with this company in any way.

 

The action sucked when it first arrived. This guitar was tuned to

standard D tuning though I asked the shop to tune it standard E.

 

All the cavities were routed out very cleanly and all but I really

want to talk about what's horrifyingly wrong with this so called Custom Shop Axe.

 

I paid close to 3000$ and waited 7 months for Shamray to complete

this Axe and what arrived on my door step gave me an instant panic attack.

 

#1. The Head stock is lopsided and non-symmetrical (not to mention

the right horn on the head stock is longer than the left horn).

 

#2. The frets are protruding out the sides (the frets were very

poorly filed at best), the lacquer is bubbled and cracked along both

sides of the fretboard where the frets are protruding.

 

#3. The silver metallic bevel paint job on both the head stock and

body is sloppy at best. There are silver sprinkles from the bevel

paint all over the back of the head stock as well.

 

#4. They screwed up making my truss rode cover the first time

leaving a screw hole that was simply covered up by the second truss

rod cover they had made after I asked it be fixed thru an e-mail the

english speaking Shamray Customer Service representative "Michael".

 

#5 There is a grounding problem with the generic neck pickup.

 

This thing has a real big & beefy sound but that has more to to with

the fact that it has a Bill 'n' Becky Bill Lawrence L500XL in the bridge..

 

It sounds & plays like a Custom Shop guitar thru and thru (accept for the protruding frets)

but that's the only real thing I enjoy about this guitar right now to be perfectly honest.

 

Even though the Head Stock & Body dimensions

are indeed WAY off, at least it feels solid for the most part..

 

I'm going to get a Real Canadian Luthier to re-shape the Head

stock so that it will be 100% to my liking. I would also get the

ends of every fret filed down and possibly repaint the entire guitar..

 

I don't have the money to do that right now but sooner or later I

will get this guitar fixed up so that I can be happy with it. Aside

from exposing Shamray as the scamming con artists that they are, its

my new mission to get this Axe up to snuff so that I can move on

from this disaster and enjoy playing the hell out of it..

 

I should have went with Ran Guitars..

[nanobug]

I smell censorship in this thread. Thanks, HC. Nice to know amidst all your efforts to fix the monumental {censored}-up that was the past week, you also found time to delete my posts.

[RaVenCAD]

So say it again.. Good info is worth repeating

[mr_les_paul_man]

Wow.

[mr_les_paul_man]

 

I smell censorship in this thread. Thanks, HC. Nice to know amidst all your efforts to fix the monumental {censored}-up that was the past week, you also found time to delete my posts.

 

 

You should repost them for those who missed them the first time, like myself.

[nanobug]

I will say this, as a helpful tip to all:

 

1) CNC machines exist to prevent the kind of mishaps that happened to this guitar's headstock. And by mishap I'm referring to the asymmetrical outcome, not the design, which is a different, unrelated mishap

So next time you hear a builder tell you about how much better their "hand built" instruments are instead of "CNC built" , remember that they're trying to sell you something, specifically, a "hand built" guitar. Bonus tip: If they're not using CNC, it's because they either don't have enough money to buy a CNC machine or it's not economical for them to do so.

 

2) If you are going to buy an expensive "hand built" guitar from a "master luthier" in a foreign country, even though that act by itself is a clear indication of having more money than brains, try to muster up the mental fortitude to use a credit card that has decent protections so when your pointy abomination of wood and strings arrives, you can do a chargeback.

 

3) When your cluster{censored} of bad workmanship with strings does arrive, after 6 pages of hyping it up and arguing with professional craftsmen about how much better a hand built instrument is than one that has been routed with CNC, don't go crying to the mods to have them clean up your well-deserved "Told ya so". It makes you look like even more of a tool than your previous overly formatted messages hyping up your FAIL of a guitar.

[mr_les_paul_man]

I'll be honest, I've seen some really horrid-looking handcrafted guitars. Especially some of the early Fenders and Gibsons.

 

Vintage? Yes.

 

Appealing to my CNC-spoiled expectations? Not really.

 

Of course, I've seen some really nice ones too, so I guess it's the luck of the draw.

[nanobug]

I'm not saying that handcrafted guitars are all bad just by virtue of being handcrafted any more than I am saying CNC routed guitars are all good just by virtue of being CNC routed. I just think the notion of attaching value to one method over the other while tossing around marketing terms like "the soul of the instrument" and other hocus-pocus bull{censored} is... rediculous, to put it kindly.

 

This thread should be stickied as a prime example of why the whole "hand built is better than CNC" argument is nonsense. In the end it comes down to the skill of the person(s) making the guitar, not the methods and tooling used to construct it.

[brad22386]

I will say this, as a helpful tip to all: 1) CNC machines exist to prevent the kind of mishaps that happened to this guitar's headstock. And by mishap I'm referring to the asymmetrical outcome, not the design, which is a different, unrelated mishap So next time you hear a builder tell you about how much better their "hand built" instruments are instead of "CNC built" , remember that they're trying to sell you something, specifically, a "hand built" guitar. Bonus tip: If they're not using CNC, it's because they either don't have enough money to buy a CNC machine or it's not economical for them to do so. 2) If you are going to buy an expensive "hand built" guitar from a "master luthier" in a foreign country, even though that act by itself is a clear indication of having more money than brains, try to muster up the mental fortitude to use a credit card that has decent protections so when your pointy cluster{censored} of wood and strings arrives, you can do a chargeback. 3) When your cluster{censored} of bad workmanship with strings does arrive, after 6 pages of hyping it up and arguing with professional craftsmen about how much better a hand built instrument is than one that has been routed with CNC, don't go crying to the mods to have them clean up your well-deserved "Told ya so". It makes you look like even more of a tool than your previous overly formatted messages hyping up your FAIL of a guitar.

 

I agree with everything you said for the most part except for that last part. CNC or not, how hard is it to measure 4x and cut once?! So much for their claim to make top notch hand crafted instruments. I can admit I was very wrong about Scamray being a decent shop and I have been naive in my pursuit for a custom 3ST with my preferred specs, but my only true crime was picking the wrong shop for the job. Have fun with your circle jerk at my expense.

 

I did not ask the mods to do anything what so ever. The forum was rolled back a few days. Most likely because of the technical problems HC was having...

[nanobug]

I agree with everything you said for the most part except for that last part. CNC or not, how hard is it to measure 4x and cut once?! So much for their claim to make top notch hand crafted instruments. I can admit I was very wrong about Scamray being a decent shop and I have been naive in my pursuit for a custom 3ST with my preferred specs, but my only true crime was picking the wrong shop for the job. Have fun with your circle jerk at my expense. I did not ask the mods to do anything what so ever. The forum was rolled back a few days. Mostly likely because of the technical problems HC was having...

 

Fair enough. Disregard my last point, and my apologies sir. Got a little carried away there. I admit that your previous posts regarding CNC got under my skin a bit, but that's no excuse for being a huge jerk.

[mr_les_paul_man]

 

This thread should be stickied as a prime example of why the whole "hand built is better than CNC" argument is nonsense. In the end it comes down to the skill of the person(s) making the guitar, not the methods and tooling used to construct it.

 

 

I second that.

[brad22386]

 

I second that.

 

 

I third that..