Members scud133 Posted December 28, 2009 Members Share Posted December 28, 2009 OK, I'll admit it, I'm confused. The OP wants tweed tone; some of you folks are recommending Blackface solutions. They are not the same thing. The good Fender tweed amps (not all of them sound great) like the 5E3 Deluxe are known for their chewy touch sensitivity, not for their shimmery cleans. Think Keith Richards vs. SRV. You can get some nice cleans through a tweed Deluxe, but is needs to have an 12ay7 in V1 and a real 5y3 rectifier tube. New tubes with 5y3 stamped on the glass are not the real deal. You need to either go NOS, used, or track down the new Chinese 5y3 (I haven't researched that one yet, so I can't really vouch for it). Then, you turn the mic volume up full, the tone up to 10, plug the guitar into the instrument input, and adjust the instrument volume until you get the shimmer. It won't be loud, but it's in there--a very small window of clean with very little headroom. The three controls are all extremely interactive. Here's a clip I recorded with a 5E3 Deluxe and a Custom Shop 56 Strat using the settings described above So, you gotta decide. You want Blackface sparkle? Go with some of the suggestions here. You want tweed touch squishiness and raunch? There are lots of tweed Deluxe, Bassman, and Twin clones, kits, etc. The Deluxe is going to cost a lot less to build or have built than the Bassman or Twin. And remember, a tweed Twin is not going to sound anything like a Blackface Twin. I absolutely love that sound. wow you might have just convinced me to buy a 5E3 just from that alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dcindc Posted December 28, 2009 Members Share Posted December 28, 2009 Great thread! gutshot porn~! Yes, the compact-tion and neatness of the CL amp are just a build consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doc oc Posted December 28, 2009 Members Share Posted December 28, 2009 I almost feel bad for starting this gutshot business with the craigslist posting, but it's very entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Citizen Cain Posted December 28, 2009 Members Share Posted December 28, 2009 Here's a clip I recorded with a 5E3 Deluxe and a Custom Shop 56 Strat using the settings described above That is simply beautiful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scud133 Posted December 28, 2009 Members Share Posted December 28, 2009 ok so who has actually built their own 5E3 (or similar?) I'm pretty handy with a soldering iron (i redid the wiring on my electrics, have built some pedals, and make my own cables). Would it be a big deal for me to assemble my own 5E3 (say, Ceriatone or Weber or Mission) ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doc oc Posted December 28, 2009 Members Share Posted December 28, 2009 That is simply beautiful! Second that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jimmy Chitown Posted December 28, 2009 Members Share Posted December 28, 2009 ok so who has actually built their own 5E3 (or similar?)I'm pretty handy with a soldering iron (i redid the wiring on my electrics, have built some pedals, and make my own cables). Would it be a big deal for me to assemble my own 5E3 (say, Ceriatone or Weber or Mission) ?? If you can solder, go for it! It's a great learning experience, a fun process, and such a great feeling when you crank out that first chord on an amp you just finished. Some of the kit builders offer some sort of tech support, but there several excellent, helpful amp-building forums out there. Plan on taking your time, doing some troubleshooting and first and foremost familiarize yourself with (and take care to follow) the safety techniques and procedures for dealing with the hazards of high voltage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SirJackdeFuzz Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 Used Supersonic? BOTH good options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SirJackdeFuzz Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 More very good options/ideas in here : http://guitargeek.com/chat/showthread.php?t=104521&highlight=tweed+5e3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SirJackdeFuzz Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 They're not as cheap as they used to be, but I'm surprised no one has suggested the Blues Jr. Can be found used for about $350 A BJr sounding like a Tweed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steadfastly Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 You're kidding, right? The POD is great at packing a large variety of tones into a small package - live, moreso than recording - but no one with a pair of working ears would suggest that a POD can do anything even remotely approaching a Tweed Deluxe. The touch responsive nature of the amp is RADICALLY out the door with a POD. Tell me you were kidding. Or that you've never played through a Tweed anything. You may be confused but you would be a very small minority. I'm willing to bet that 99% of people would not know the difference and the 1% would be professional or semi-professional musicians. Regards, Flip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lowbrow Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 You may be confused but you would be a very small minority. I'm willing to bet that 99% of people would not know the difference and the 1% would be professional or semi-professional musicians. Regards, Flip. You're probably right, but cratz2 has a very good ear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BAXANDALL Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 Anyone know of any less epensive options to get that Fender Tweed Twin sound? If you can find an old Traynor YGL-3 mkIII that is a good tweed twin substitute. You won't get the signal breakup that the tweed gives though. Also, if you come across a Plush P1000S head you're in business. You'll need to get a cab with that one though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 Speaking of the 5E3 circuit, I added a choke to mine and the Mission Amps "Tone/Volume" mod and I love the amp now for everything from sparking cleans to overdrive sounds. It's more like a Deluxe Reverb without the "tone stack" now....meaning a little bit better cleans with an overdrive that's more Marshall than Fender. It's very difficult to find a guitar that it doesn't like. From weak Gretsch Hilotrons to P-90s to Filtertrons to PAFs to high output humbuckers...it makes any pickup sing. I use one or two (in parallel at 4 ohms) 8 ohm Jensen C12Ns with it mostly but sometimes run it through four Jensen P10Q speakers at 2 ohms. It's very forgiving with impedence but the OT is rated for 4 ohms. $28 and definitely worth trying out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steadfastly Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 You're probably right, but cratz2 has a very good ear. No doubt his ears are better than mine. I believe we can train them as well to hear certain sounds if we practice it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cratz2 Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 I don't think my ears are anything special, but I owned a POD, and POD 2.0, a POD XT, an original Tonelab, a Korg Pandora and a Digitech RP250. I currently own or have owned in the last year the 5E3 clone, a Vox AC15H1TV, a Vox AC15CC, a Deluxe Reverb Reissue, a Super Sonic ( ), a Twin II, a Peavey Prowler, a Vox DA5, a vox AD30VT, a couple Crate V3112s and probably two or three others.I'm betting I embrace modeling as much as almost anyone on the forum, but there's absolutely zero possible way that I'd believe that if any forum member was part of an A/B comparison, live in a room, that he or she could not hear the difference between a POD through a PA vs a 5E3 or a Twin or a DRRI. Clips can hide a multitude of since and certainly the modelers are an excellent choice for folks that gig using a very wide variety of tones at every show, but at this point, they simply aren't on par with a decent actual tube amp in a room so while I can go along with the notion that a POD XT can make a PA sound more like a Tweed amp than the PA will on its own, there's no way that Wyatt or someone that's played with a Tweed Deluxe for several years would ever be fooled by a POD.And again, I'm an ardent modeler defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guttermouth Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 I bought my 5E3 used and already built so I don't know much about them, but that circuit seems pretty small. Mine looks like it has 25% more stuff in the circuit compared to the one in that listing. Mine was $600 and has all quality parts. That one looks like some shortcuts were taken to my limited knowledge. fwiw - the cl amp in question looks to me like they used doug hoffman's 5e3 board and triode's transformers ( both quality pieces). hoffman lays his amps out with dedicated ground and signal busses and tends to work in right angles. this accounts for the cleaner look and makes it look alot less busy when in reality it has the same amount of "stuff" in it. just as an example - the last tweed amp i finished for a customer had the preamp wired point to point and when it was done it looked like there was nothing in it :it ended up being a deluxe preamp,running on a tweed pro output with 6l6's.we dropped some jensens in his bassman cab to run with it and it absolutely smoked also, for the cheapest way to build a great sounding amp - triode has "rebuild kits" that comes with everything you need except a chassis and speaker :http://triodeelectronics.com/deluxerebuild.html i've retrofitted a couple of those into existing enclosures for customers and spec them out with mallory 150's and triodes' multitapped output transformer (the plastic bobbin model iirc) and they sound absolutely amazing.the transformers that triode has put out period correct voltages and are some of the best sounding transformers i've heard in tweed circuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members d_dave_c Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 What about ValveTrain's Concord amp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 It's funny that people talk about "tweed tone" as if all the amps made by Fender that were tweed covered had some sound that was the same, be it a tweed Champ, tweed Deluxe, tweed Princeton, tweed bassman...etc. These are all different circuits that vary a LOT in how they sound. I think what people might be getting at is the absence of the traditional "tone stack" and that characteristic mid hump that sounds kind of like a Marshall when overdriven. Maybe in more general what they are talking about is a vintage Fender sound that "isn't blackface sounding" wuith that mid scooped sparkley clean sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cratz2 Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 That makes a lot of sense. I hadn't seen one layed out quite like that though I did see one that looked similar several months ago on eBay but like the craigslist posting that doc oc linked, it had prety bad pics and I couldn't really see antyhing that wasn't on the board. fwiw - the cl amp in question looks to me like they used doug hoffman's 5e3 board and triode's transformers ( both quality pieces). hoffman lays his amps out with dedicated ground and signal busses and tends to work in right angles. this accounts for the cleaner look and makes it look alot less busy when in reality it has the same amount of "stuff" in it. just as an example - the last tweed amp i finished for a customer had the preamp wired point to point and when it was done it looked like there was nothing in it : it ended up being a deluxe preamp,running on a tweed pro output with 6l6's.we dropped some jensens in his bassman cab to run with it and it absolutely smoked also, for the cheapest way to build a great sounding amp - triode has "rebuild kits" that comes with everything you need except a chassis and speaker : http://triodeelectronics.com/deluxerebuild.html i've retrofitted a couple of those into existing enclosures for customers and spec them out with mallory 150's and triodes' multitapped output transformer (the plastic bobbin model iirc) and they sound absolutely amazing.the transformers that triode has put out period correct voltages and are some of the best sounding transformers i've heard in tweed circuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SirJackdeFuzz Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 It's funny that people talk about "tweed tone" as if all the amps made by Fender that were tweed covered had some sound that was the same, be it a tweed Champ, tweed Deluxe, tweed Princeton, tweed bassman...etc. These are all different circuits that vary a LOT in how they sound. I think what people might be getting at is the absence of the traditional "tone stack" and that characteristic mid hump that sounds kind of like a Marshall when overdriven. Maybe in more general what they are talking about is a vintage Fender sound that "isn't blackface sounding" wuith that mid scooped sparkley clean sound. . . . i've noticed that too ! Like the Peavey Classic30, the tweed covered one, is all of a sudden also a Fender TWEED sounding amp. That tweed coverring has a hell of a lot of mojo . . . Oh Dear ! For me, "the" Most Tweedy of them all, are the 5E3 & 5F4 Super Tweed Two totally badass amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thisgoesto11 Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 What about ValveTrain's Concord amp? The concord is more blackface, the Lexington reverb is tweed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SirJackdeFuzz Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 FENDER TWEED AMPS http://ampwares.com/search-classic.asp?q=Tweed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guttermouth Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 That makes a lot of sense. I hadn't seen one layed out quite like that though I did see one that looked similar several months ago on eBay but like the craigslist posting that doc oc linked, it had prety bad pics and I couldn't really see antyhing that wasn't on the board.here's a better pic of a hoffman 5e3 board :you can see the busses running along the front of the board with the components flown over the top. looking back at this pic and the cl pic it looks like the cl amp has all the filters bunched together on one end of the board so it may just be an "inspired by hoffman" thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kap'n Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 Speaking of the 5E3 circuit, I added a choke to mine and the Mission Amps "Tone/Volume" mod and I love the amp now for everything from sparking cleans to overdrive sounds. Interesting. I'm considering doing it (a choke) to one of mine. The 5E3 is great for a lot of stuff, but it's not a particularly punchy amp. Right now I'm favoring an 5F4, which is god's own small club amp. Where did you mount the choke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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