GFS pickups and Seymour Duncan Pickups equivalents

[SPONGEBOB]

 

After trying my crunchy rail my buddy is ditching his JB in USA jackson (pre fender). Different strokes. ~mike~

 

 

I can understand that, if he likes a more high gain pickup... Like I said, GFS, is worth the money, they sound ok, but they are not the same quality of a Duncan or the "boutique" brands.. Just my .02... However he probably should keep that USA Jackson, because they are skyrocketing in value, and he is devaluing it somewhat by putting a GFS in it. bob

[dimmypage]

I would like to hear some comparrison clips:thu:

 

up to this point its all Yada Yada Yada.

[Bob411]

Just put chrunchy rails in a First act. Can't believe how good it sounds. Son has a Jackson King V with JB, and we wouldn't dream of replacing that pick up. My advice to your friend would be to leave his Jackson as is. Buy a cheap guitar, and put the Crunchy Rails in that. Then you have two guitars with different, and very good sounds. If he wants to replace the JB, more power to him.

 

I would like to mention that my 14 year old son has wound his own pick up in school. Did it with an old reel to reel tape deck. It's not rocket science. A magnet, bobbin, poll pieces, and wire. Only difference is which magnet you choose, and how many times you decide to wrap the wire around.

[smorgdonkey]

 

Like I said, GFS, is worth the money, they sound ok, but they are not the same quality of a Duncan or the "boutique" brands.. Just my .02... However he probably should keep that USA Jackson, because they are skyrocketing in value, and he is devaluing it somewhat by putting a GFS in it. bob

 

TRUE. Not to mention that the Jackson will no doubt sound worse with that pickup in it.

[t2mikeman]

 

Cuz you can never have too much crap...especially if it's cheap. They may well be constructed EVERY BIT as well but without the same quality of components (debatable), without the level of know-how, without the amount of research, and therefor without the ability to produce the same quality of tone . I stood in the same room as a person who tried a great Seymour Duncan pickup that had a fantastic thick sound with character and depth with a lot of low mids and nice articulation and then, leaving the amp settings and everything where they were switched to an Ibanez that sounded thin with barely any lows and low mids in comparison. It also sounded fizzy but had loads of compressed distortion and he was blown away by it yet it was a mere shadow in every way of the Seymour Duncan aside from the fizz and the thin nature. Moral: some people's strokes suck. TRUE. Not to mention that the Jackson will no doubt sound worse with that pickup in it.

 

 

As for your speculation of construction, you are simply guessing and assuming. There isnt a hint of fact in that.

The funny thing is you have no idea what sort of know how went into the construction of these pickups.

Whats more is some of the most lauded pickups were roughly wound to certain specs, and many of these rough formulas were STUMBLED UPON.

 

But beyond that your logic is just plain wrong.

 

you have stated that IF: A pickup maker has little experience THEN: that pickup maker CANNOT produce a "good" sounding pickup. That statement is ERRONEOUS. It is NOT valid.

 

I cant comment on the ibanez, but he liked it and you didnt? Maybe your stroke sucks?

 

One thing i can comment on is that A) ive owned both the JB and The crunchy rails. B) The JB is without a doubt FAR less noisy of a pickup. And to my ears and the ears of many others (there is an A/B comparison on youtube) they sound just as good

C) you have nothing to back up your assertion that the jackson will sound worse. That is not TRUE. it is merely your assertion of your opinion. Telling us it is true doesnt make it any more valid.

 

but following your reasoning methods...

 

TRUE: Guitars make of gold sound better than all others.

 

 

With such flawed logic i can only assume that your strokes indeed suck sir.

 

Off to philtone to get my guitar pleked....

~mike~

[ianlange11]

As for your speculation of construction, you are simply guessing and assuming. There isnt a hint of fact in that. The funny thing is you have no idea what sort of know how went into the construction of these pickups. Whats more is some of the most lauded pickups were roughly wound to certain specs, and many of these rough formulas were STUMBLED UPON. But beyond that your logic is just plain wrong. you have stated that IF: A pickup maker has little experience THEN: that pickup maker CANNOT produce a "good" sounding pickup. That statement is ERRONEOUS. It is NOT valid. I cant comment on the ibanez, but he liked it and you didnt? Maybe your stroke sucks? One thing i can comment on is that A) ive owned both the JB and The crunchy rails. B) The JB is without a doubt FAR less noisy of a pickup. And to my ears and the ears of many others (there is an A/B comparison on youtube) they sound just as good C) you have nothing to back up your assertion that the jackson will sound worse. That is not TRUE. it is merely your assertion of your opinion. Telling us it is true doesnt make it any more valid. but following your reasoning methods... TRUE: Guitars make of gold sound better than all others. With such flawed logic i can only assume that your strokes indeed suck sir. Off to philtone to get my guitar pleked.... ~mike~

 

 

Mike is the only one here being logical. "quality of tone" give me a break, that is such bull{censored}, the worst I've heard in recent time.

[smorgdonkey]

 

Off to philtone to get my guitar pleked.... ~mike~

 

Why would you bother with an elitist technical procedure on one of your instruments? That's not LOGICAL since all of your gear is top shelf.

[ianlange11]

I haven't speculated on anything. SD studies and has studied this stuff...as has every other fine pickup maker in existence. Yes, but I've sampled the product with open mind and little expectation and was very disappointed. You and your commentary on 'facts' : the 'fact' is that you are making one major assumption that the companies are equal and in fact pretty much stating that GFS is superior to SD. I suggest a hearing specialist. I've seen one multiple times and my hearing across the human audible spectrum is quite intact. I know that and have never stated otherwise. Are you suggesting that GFS has 'stumbled upon' some lauded pickup? Please. Do realize how many times that you mention 'logic' and how often that you first ASSUME something and then attempt to apply the logic afterward? Have a look. I have not stated that. Read again. Perhaps you are suggesting that research and experimentation are of no value since one can just haphazardly stumble around and trip into a great pickup design/set of specs/sound(?). He has hearing loss and tinnitus. I'm beginning to think that there's a good possibility that you do as well BUT-just to clarify for you since you seem so quick to assume things - I have no evidence of that. Youtube videos are compressed to bits. Have you ever heard the difference between a Youtube video's sound and an 'in the room' sound? How much 'logic' is in basing your entire case on that? I have this: I've owned a USA Jackson (pre-Fender) and I have owned GFS pickups. It is my speculation based upon my 25 ish years of being involved in guitars, live music, musical instruments, recording, performing, doing guitar tech work and singing and the information which that experience has armed me with. The one thing that you are correct about is that it is still 'merely my opinion'. I think I have about a 99.5% chance of being correct on it as well. You can apply that statement to everything that you say...or are you exempt from your own declarations? I never said that once. I never suggested that either. I would suggest to you that if the GFS product was better, with the length of time that they've been on the market, then they could also charge what SD charges...or do you think that they are making a superior product and just selling it inexpensively out of the kindness of their hearts? There you go with the 'logic' again. For someone who speaks so often of 'logic' you certainly assume too frequently, interpret words haphazardly and come from left field far too often. I think your strokes suck. Now we are tied. 50/50. Why would you bother with an elitist technical procedure on one of your instruments? That's not LOGICAL since all of your gear is top shelf.

 

Continue the Some of the responses you interpret his posts as meaning something totally different than what is obviously intended. Such as,

 

Are you suggesting that GFS has 'stumbled upon' some lauded pickup? Please.

 

Nope, he wasn't

 

and come from left field far too often.

 

 

I would suggest to you that if the GFS product was better, with the length of time that they've been on the market, then they could also charge what SD charges...or do you think that they are making a superior product and just selling it inexpensively out of the kindness of their hearts?

 

It is obvious that raising the prices up to SD's is not the business model for Guitar Fetish. Being much cheaper is part of their nitch. duh.

 

Why would you bother with an elitist technical procedure on one of your instruments? That's not LOGICAL since all of your gear is top shelf.

Was this supposed to be a joke to retaliate to his sarcasm? Eithey way it deserved more facepalm. I don't even feel like you are worth arguing with.

[smorgdonkey]

Was this supposed to be a joke to retaliate to his sarcasm? Eithey way it deserved more facepalm. I don't even feel like you are worth arguing with.

From you...I'll take that as a compliment.

[Norcal_GIT_r]

It's not rocket science. A magnet, bobbin, poll pieces, and wire. Only difference is which magnet you choose, and how many times you decide to wrap the wire around.

 

I assume the person teaching your son doesn't have any real world experience designing pickups as this statement is so far from being true.

You don't think metal alloys used make a difference? How about the diameter of the wire or materials and thickness of insulation. What about TPL or tension of winds? What about diameter and materials of pole screw and slugs? Oh yea how about which Alnico 5 formula would you choose? Let alone all the Alnico and ceramic formulas. Let alone what about a fully charged magnet to one thats been charged to certain point.? These are just a few simple things I take into consideration when I design a pickup.

:poke:

[JohnnyLarge]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^

Pwned him so bad I felt it here in the UK!:poke:

[JMR]

i believe I sense a....

 

 

{censored}STORM!!!!

[Bob411]

I assume the person teaching your son doesn't have any real world experience designing pickups as this statement is so far from being true. You don't think metal alloys used make a difference? How about the diameter of the wire or materials and thickness of insulation. What about TPL or tension of winds? What about diameter and materials of pole screw and slugs? Oh yea how about which Alnico 5 formula would you choose? Let alone all the Alnico and ceramic formulas. Let alone what about a fully charged magnet to one thats been charged to certain point.? These are just a few simple things I take into consideration when I design a pickup. :poke:

 

No my son's teacher has no experience designing pickups that I'm aware of.

 

Not trying to put down your profession, or say a monkey can do it. You must admit, that once the pickup is designed, and my guess is that a huge part of that would be trial, and error, making it is cake.

[Norcal_GIT_r]

No my son's teacher has no experience designing pickups that I'm aware of. Not trying to put down your profession, or say a monkey can do it. You must admit, that once the pickup is designed, and my guess is that a huge part of that would be trial, and error, making it is cake.

 

It's not really trial and error when you know what does what.

It's applied knowledge. And no it's not making a cake. I welcome you to try and make a quality set on your own. Not just stuffing wire on some bobbin and say you make pickups.

I just love it when people tell me about my profession who have no experience at all doing what I do.

Please tell me what you do for a living so I can make unfounded uneducated statements about your profession.

 

Thanks so much and have a nice New Years!!!

[Preacher]

... Not trying to put down your profession, or say a monkey can do it. You must admit, that once the pickup is designed, and my guess is that a huge part of that would be trial, and error, making it is cake.

 

Seriously? Cake? Wow, dude, wow. I think I know what you're getting at but I wouldn't descibe what Bryan does as "cake". I sure couldn't even get close.

[smorgdonkey]

...and why does everyone think that Jason Lollar's book which originally sold for $19.95 now sells for $250+

 

 

It isn't because good pickups are easy to build.

[t2mikeman]

Continue the Some of the responses you interpret his posts as meaning something totally different than what is obviously intended. Such as, Nope, he wasn't It is obvious that raising the prices up to SD's is not the business model for Guitar Fetish. Being much cheaper is part of their nitch. duh. Was this supposed to be a joke to retaliate to his sarcasm? Eithey way it deserved more facepalm. I don't even feel like you are worth arguing with.

 

 

Thanks that saved me from having to type a word more.

~mike~

[Orange Jackson]

We have to submit to reason at some point. A honda civic is not as good a car as is a honda accord, or a benz. It's just not. It does not matter if you think the civic is better, it isn't. You might think it's a better value for you, as an individual, but that does not make it "better".

 

So on a public forum it is important to have the distinction between what is "better for you," and what is "actually better."

 

 

 

People love to cling to this idea that they beat the system, that somehow they got something for nothing. But the market place has a wonderful way of sorting out "better," it is not perfect, but it is very good. If the GFS pickups were as awesome as some people are claiming, then Jay could charge $100 per pickup, but he can't do that because these are priced correctly at $30.

 

You might like them, they might work well with your sound, and that is great. But you are the exception, not the rule. The vast majority of people will, in a blind test, point to Duncan's as a better sounding pickup. The test has already been run actually, and the results dictate the price you pay.

[treedroppings]

So I play a Lite Ash Strat with a Pete Florance '57 humbucker, and the Seymour Duncan APS2 pups sound just as good, only different from the bucker! I enjoy all the sounds I can get through that guitar, not just the

$150 pickup. But I haven't tried the GFS pups, I am just saying that the

Seymours are pretty sweet.

[Bob411]

Seriously? Cake? Wow, dude, wow. I think I know what you're getting at but I wouldn't descibe what Bryan does as "cake". I sure couldn't even get close.

 

I've been to Bryan's site before, and from what I've read, his pickups are an incredible bargain. Not sure how they are even in the conversation. Not trying to blow smoke up his ass, but they are on a whole nuther level.

 

Back to what I was talking about, which had nothing to do with BG pickups, or Bryan.

 

No, I don't think you know what I'm getting at. I don't want to accuse one company of copying another, but I'm saying, it would be very easy to just make the pickups. I'll even admit, one company might take something that works well, and use different materials as a cost consideration.

 

I install carpet. Go ahead, make any statement you want. Unfortunately, for the vast majority of us, you would be right.

[t2mikeman]

 

We have to submit to reason at some point. A honda civic is not as good a car as is a honda accord, or a benz. It's just not. It does not matter if you think the civic is better, it isn't. You might think it's a better value for you , as an individual, but that does not make it "better". So on a public forum it is important to have the distinction between what is "better for you," and what is "actually better." People love to cling to this idea that they beat the system, that somehow they got something for nothing. But the market place has a wonderful way of sorting out "better," it is not perfect, but it is very good. If the GFS pickups were as awesome as some people are claiming, then Jay could charge $100 per pickup, but he can't do that because these are priced correctly at $30. You might like them, they might work well with your sound, and that is great. But you are the exception, not the rule. The vast majority of people will, in a blind test, point to Duncan's as a better sounding pickup. The test has already been run actually, and the results dictate the price you pay.

 

 

Thats just not true at all.

 

Bill lawrence used to about charge 55 dollars for his hand made l-500xl . If you do your research many players consider his pickups some of the best in existance! Seymour Duncan COPIED his pickup for their dimebucker.

 

Yet the mass produced duncan cost twice as much (100+)!?

 

That doesnt follow your reasoning.

 

The majority of people know the duncan name and that is enough to make it "sound better".

 

Did you know that it has been proven that Cheap Whiskey actually TASTE better when placed in a fancier bottle with a higher price tag? Your instincts tell you if it cost more, then it is better.

 

But that is simply false logic.

 

Case and point.

 

7 years ago i got a Godin SD for 280 bucks. This Godin was made in US/Canada and contained all solid woods and was set up and fret-Leveled as every godin is, cheap or not.

 

The closest guitar feature and pricewise at the time was your basic epiphone.

 

The godin WIPES the floor with a $300 2002 Epiphone. The frets on those werent even leveled from the factory. The sound playability and attention to detail were on an entirely different level.

 

But whats this you say? The market sorts value? You get what you pay for?

 

BUT YOU DONT!

 

You pay what you are willing to pay. You get what you get.

 

Duncan doesnt charge 70 dollars a pickup because thats what its worth. they charge it because people will pay it. They have 30+ years of reputation, they have a name. When you hear duncan, you dont ask questions, you think good pickups.

 

Maybe thats because they are.

 

but that does NOT mean that A) no one else can make good pickups

or more importantly B) no one else can make good pickups and charge less.

 

Its VERY easy to see the first reason why GFS can charge less. If your pickups are made in a land where the cost of living is 1/20th of your competitor. You can charge up to 20 times less and make the same profit.

 

But on top of all this. Bill lawrence HAND BUILT pickups for FIFTY DOLLARS, roughly 2/3 of his mass produced competitors.

 

This was not due to an inferior product. This is the man who TAUGHT the great pickup makers what they know! He simply chose to not take the same amount of profit.

 

There is no magic market fairy out there checking a companies books and making sure they profit appropriately, ESPECIALLY in NICHE markets like pickup making.

 

Word of mouth, name brand and collective consciousness are powerful things. It is very difficult for even quality of product and value to overcome these things.

 

~mike~

[t2mikeman]

 

We have to submit to reason at some point. A honda civic is not as good a car as is a honda accord, or a benz. It's just not. It does not matter if you think the civic is better, it isn't. You might think it's a better value for you , as an individual, but that does not make it "better". So on a public forum it is important to have the distinction between what is "better for you," and what is "actually better." People love to cling to this idea that they beat the system, that somehow they got something for nothing. But the market place has a wonderful way of sorting out "better," it is not perfect, but it is very good. If the GFS pickups were as awesome as some people are claiming, then Jay could charge $100 per pickup, but he can't do that because these are priced correctly at $30. You might like them, they might work well with your sound, and that is great. But you are the exception, not the rule. The vast majority of people will, in a blind test, point to Duncan's as a better sounding pickup. The test has already been run actually, and the results dictate the price you pay.

 

 

I will agree with you on your first point, "good" is usually subjective.

~mike~

[Norcal_GIT_r]

No, I don't think you know what I'm getting at. I don't want to accuse one company of copying another, but I'm saying, it would be very easy to just make the pickups. I'll even admit, one company might take something that works well, and use different materials as a cost consideration.

 

I only posted in this thread because of your statement about pickups just being wire and magnets and no thought beyond that. But I do read most all threads in the EG forum though, when I can.

 

This would only remotely be true if the company used CNC machines and/or automated winders where they just load some bobbins and wire choose the model program and turn on the machine.

But still I haven't run across a machine that will assemble a pickup. That's all done by hand and has to be done very precisely or you'll have a pickup that squeals and tends to fail in a short period of time. Let alone look sloppy. Seen any stock Gibson pickups lately.?

 

As for me and my pickups I do almost everything by hand. It takes a lot of focus and attention to detail to keep my pickups as consistent as they are.

But the pay off is in the tone.

 

Thanks for taking the time to visit my website. I do appreciate the kind words.

[Will Chen]

 

...This would only remotely be true if the company used CNC machines and/or automated winders where they just load some bobbins and wire choose the model program and turn on the machine. But still I haven't run across a machine that will assemble a pickup. That's all done by hand and has to be done very precisely or you'll have a pickup that squeals and tends to fail in a short period of time. Let alone look sloppy...

 

 

I don't know if it's simply marketing mumbo jumbo, but the guys at Rose Pickups claim to have a machine which they claim can "not only winds coils, but can check many other vital stats as well. Scatter wound, Symmetrically wound, Matched coils, no problem! Even predictable patterned coils, which allows us to duplicate scatter winds." I've got one of their pups waiting for an install. Their prices rival GFS (just a bit more) but appear to be wound in their shop in California (I'm inferring that as they don't flat out say that). I yield to your experience, but why exactly couldn't a machine replicate a process precisely if programmed to do so?

[woscostametaxa]

i think what i really wanna point out here: NOBODY, even those guys with 25 or whatsoever years of experience or whatnot are OBJECTIVE!

 

and for guys with tinnitus: i can think of 2 non to shabby guitarists with that: paul gilbert and eric johnson - i don't know if they are anybodys exact cup 'o tea - sound/stylewise - i don't know. but to me both sound rather good.

 

so everybody - chill a little - this kinda sounds like a fundamentalistic discussion about religion (which, for a fact, i really don't wanna start in here )

 

simply to say gfs is better or worse for a fact to a sd is not true.

 

my guitar teacher was BLOWN AWAY from the chery (or chevy or whatsoever) lp a friend of mine has. he really likes the thing, just thought he would want another sound, little more open - i told him about gfs, he put 2 pu's in, and the teacher couldn't believe his ears. and, for those who need to hear that stuff: that man is 25-30 years in the business, and makes his living in part with selling vintage / rather new gear.

 

it's a little like with the SD vs. the dimarzio guys - it really are pickups.

 

that said, i don't wanna "cheapen" boutique pickups, like brians, or häussel, or whoever i don't know who makes kickass pu's for a good price.