Did the Beatles Pave the Way for Quantizing to Grids and Pitch Correction?

[claveslave]

Haha!!! How do ya mean?

Well, unless you were taking the piss out of bagpipes, it seems to me that if your track was in A and the bagpipes are north of B flat (I never knew that so, thanks) you'd want to be speeding your track up to meet their pitch, record them and then drop the speed back down to normal for everything to be OK. Of course, you could have slowed the tape down to a half tone short of an octave but I doubt that radical an approach would produce anything other than a kazoo type effect.

[Lee Flier]

Yes, you're right... see my above post.

[claveslave]

Geez this place is fast.

[Eddie]

Doug's post made me think of what I think is a really valid analogy: Colorizing black and white films indiscriminately, which would be sort of like auto-tuning everything. But then take something like the restored version of Metropolis that Giorgio Moroder did, and you can see colorization used subtly and well.

Some people would still be against it. I remember watching some documentary a while back on Moral Rights.

Some things I found with a quick search:

""To Woody Allen, "colorization" of films "is a `monstrous,' disgusting,' horrible,' `sinful,' `absurd,' `humiliating,' `preposterous,' and `insulting' mutilation and defacing of genuine works of art, in which computers are used to `doctor' and `tamper' with the `great originals,' thereby creating `degraded,' `cheesy,' artificial symbols of one society's greed." To others, colorization is simply another new technological process that can be used for innovative purposes which includes colorizing films."
http://www.taradji.com/color.html

"on November 23, 1988, a French court upheld an injunction prohibiting a French television station from showing a colorized version of John Huston's 1950 film The Asphalt Jungle."
http://www.dga.org/news/mag_archives/v21-2/moralrights.html

IIRC, in Allen's case his movies cannot be modified in any way. I believe this also includes announcements and logos that are often shown at the bottom and/or corner of the screen when the movies are shown on TV. I believe they also can't be altered to fit the TV screen.
This can limit the exposure of his work, but it's his choice as an artist.

[Beck]

I

[Ernest Buckley]

Another thing; often when we say the Beatles in a music innovation sense I think we really mean George Martin and other behind the scenes people, don

[Anderton]

 

Oh boy, I agree with you but you're going to get a serious whooping from some around here for saying that.

 

 

Well, not from me. The Beatles were indeed a great pop band, but I thought "Piper at the Gates of Dawn" was more innovative. Then again, people think I'm crazy for thinking that.

 

However...I do have to say one thing, because the Beatles created a moment that transcended all that came before. I was playing a gig in Allentown, PA, where there happened to be a Capitol records pressing plant. A guy came up to us afterwards and said, "Hey, want to hear the new Beatles album?" Turns out his father worked at the plant and had smuggled out a copy.

 

This would be Sgt. Peppers, of course.

 

Well, yeah, sure! So we piled into our van and went to the guy's house. Remember, there was no internet, no leaks, no MP3s. No one except those in the Beatles or Capitol Records' inner circle had heard that album. No one knew what to expect. I certainly had no idea of what to expect.

 

We engaged in some, uh, willful chemical self-poisoning of that time, sat back, and the needle hit the groove.

 

Whoa.

 

When the last chord of "Day in the Life" faded away into nothingness. I knew I had witnessed greatness. At that time, it was a breakthrough of gargantuan proportions. Sure, it became diluted over time, as others copied what had been done, and the sheer difference compared to what had come before faded into memory.

 

But during that springtime night in 1967, I heard something with an impact I had never, ever felt before. It was equal to hearing the Electric Ladyland sessions before they were released. It was transcendent, and the Beatles team - including, most certainly, George Martin - deserve credit for that.

[Anderton]

And while I'm in a story-telling mood...

 

George Martin is truly a class act. In the mid-70s, I was working on my second book, "Home Recording for Musicians." The publisher said "Hey, how about we get George Martin to write the foreword?"

 

Uh, sure. And we'll get John Lennon to record a demo for the flexi-disc.

 

Well, they did get in contact with George Martin himself. He asked to send a sample chapter, and he must have liked it because he wrote a beautiful and eloquent foreword.

 

That book really established me, and having George Martin's imprimatur was worth more than anything.

 

Many years later, Sir George was giving the keynote address at the TEC Awards. I saw him sitting at a table, and screwed up all my fanboy courage to walk up to him. Trust me, that took a lot.

 

"Mr. Martin [iIRC correctly he hadn't been knighted yet], I'm sure you don't remember this, but you did me an incredible favor many years ago by writing the foreword to my book. I just wanted to thank you, it..."

 

"Oh, yes, Craig Anderton. Of course I remember."

 

I was speechless, and anyone who knows me would realize that's a most unusual condition. He didn't say "Go away, kid, you bother me." I was totally blown away.

 

I always felt that incident reflected nothing about me, but sure as hell reflected a lot about a very kind man who was not above helping some kid get off the ground. Like he did with four kids from Liverpool, albeit with a far greater degree of success

 

Thank you very much, Sir George.

[Beck]

But during that springtime night in 1967, I heard something with an impact I had never, ever felt before. It was equal to hearing the Electric Ladyland sessions before they were released. It was transcendent, and the Beatles team - including, most certainly, George Martin - deserve credit for that.

 

 

Cool story. I felt that way when I first heard Boston. In that case the mastermind -- musician, engineer and producer were one in the same person for the most part. So in my mind Scholz is even more significant to me than the Beatles, well like Les Paul in a way.

[Ernest Buckley]

Well, not from me. The Beatles were indeed a great pop band, but I thought "Piper at the Gates of Dawn" was more innovative. Then again, people think I'm crazy for thinking that. However...I do have to say one thing, because the Beatles created a moment that transcended all that came before. I was playing a gig in Allentown, PA, where there happened to be a Capitol records pressing plant. A guy came up to us afterwards and said, "Hey, want to hear the new Beatles album?" Turns out his father worked at the plant and had smuggled out a copy. This would be Sgt. Peppers, of course. Well, yeah, sure! So we piled into our van and went to the guy's house. Remember, there was no internet, no leaks, no MP3s. No one except those in the Beatles or Capitol Records' inner circle had heard that album. No one knew what to expect. I certainly had no idea of what to expect. We engaged in some, uh, willful chemical self-poisoning of that time, sat back, and the needle hit the groove. Whoa. When the last chord of "Day in the Life" faded away into nothingness. I knew I had witnessed greatness. At that time , it was a breakthrough of gargantuan proportions. Sure, it became diluted over time, as others copied what had been done, and the sheer difference compared to what had come before faded into memory. But during that springtime night in 1967, I heard something with an impact I had never, ever felt before. It was equal to hearing the Electric Ladyland sessions before they were released. It was transcendent, and the Beatles team - including, most certainly, George Martin - deserve credit for that.

 

 

See, your experience cannot be duplicated so it was a unique moment for you and this sort of goes with the other thread about crazy vs. creative. I don`t think you`re crazy but I do think you had an experience very different than the one I had of The Beatles. You are a bit older than me, I`m 37 so you heard nothing like this before The Beatles where as I had heard some productions that were pretty cool and it wasn` the Beatles so when I first head Sgt. Pepper, I thought, this is cool but its a bit lo fi and kind of corny. You have to try and see it from my perspective too. I`m not crazy. I just didn`t have the same experience you did prior to hearing The Beatles for the first time. Sorry if I`m juxtaposing two threads here in one but ones view of The Beatles has all to do with the individual: their background, their upbringing, etc...

[Ernest Buckley]

It`ll be interesting to hear what music sounds like in 20 years. There will be even more variety and as baby boomers start to pass into the great unknown, what validity will The Beatles still hold? In 30, 40, 50 years as my generation starts to pass as well, will The Beatles get thrown and disregarded into the past like so many countless souls before them?

[Anderton]

Cool story. I felt that way when I first heard Boston. In that case the mastermind -- musician, engineer and producer were one in the same person for the most part. So in my mind Scholz is even more significant to me than the Beatles, well like Les Paul in a way.

 

 

You want a Tom Scholz story?

 

I was writing a column for Guitar Player at the time (actually, I am again, but I digress...) when I got a call from Guitar World, which was a major competitor. They had a problem because they'd scored an interview with Tom Scholz, but he insisted that I interview him, not anyone else.

 

Well, there were obvious political issues. I talked to the folks at Guitar Player and they were very cool about it. But there were also warning flags...he insisted that I interview him? Prima donna issues maybe? Felt he could put something over on me?

 

Turned out he wanted me to interview him because he's a fellow solderhead. I did get the obligatory "How-did-you-get-your-guitar-sound" stuff, but at least for me, the coolest part of the interview was that Scholz was a huge fan of using red LEDs as distortion elements wrapped around the feedback resistor of an op amp, as opposed to the usual silicon or germanium diodes. We were both pretty sure we were the only ones who had figured this out, and yet, here we were, two members of the "brotherhood of the red LEDs." (There's a valid technical reason as to why they make great distortion elements, but this isn't the DIY forum).

 

Anyway, I had a blast talking to Tom. He was a totally cool guy, totally accessible, zero prima donna, just plain nice and open. The interview was published and Guitar World was very happy.

 

I never wrote for them after that, but then again, no interview subject ever insisted that I interview them...

 

Then there's the Moon Unit Zappa story. And the Quincy Jones story...

 

But those are other stories, for other times.

[Anderton]

See, your experience cannot be duplicated so it was a unique moment for you and this sort of goes with the other thread about crazy vs. creative. I don`t think you`re crazy but I do think you had an experience very different than the one I had of The Beatles. You are a bit older than me, I`m 37

In other words, you could be my son...my older son...scary...

so you heard nothing like this before The Beatles where as I had heard some productions that were pretty cool and it wasn` the Beatles so when I first head Sgt. Pepper, I thought, this is cool but its a bit lo fi and kind of corny. You have to try and see it from my perspective too..

Oh, absolutely. As I said, that experience became diluted over the years as others built on what the Beatles had done. My experience is one of those instances that caused the phrase "You had to be there" to be invented.

[Anderton]

It`ll be interesting to hear what music sounds like in 20 years. There will be even more variety and as baby boomers start to pass into the great unknown, what validity will The Beatles still hold? In 30, 40, 50 years as my generation starts to pass as well, will The Beatles get thrown and disregarded into the past like so many countless souls before them?

I often think about that kind of thing as well. A lot of times at seminars kids come up to me and say "Wow, it must have been great to live through the 60s...the Doors, Led Zeppelin, the Beatles, the Stones..."

Whereupon I remind them there was also Lulu, the Lemon Pipers, and the Archies. "Who?" My point exactly

Time seems to filter out the worthwhile. I'm sure there were a bunch of hacks during Bach's time you were, y'know, okay but didn't approach what Bach did. His music survived; the others' didn't.

[Eddie]

Whereupon I remind them there was also Lulu, the Lemon Pipers, and the Archies. "Who?" My point exactly

I like them, or at least one song by each one

Great stories. Reminded me of another cool story when Tom Dowd met Sir George Martin.

[Beck]

You want a Tom Scholz story?

Hey yeah, I remember that interview. It was a good one. I had it in hard copy for years but must of got misplaced in a move.

Yep I've got a bunch of LEDs in my Rockman. When I first opened it up (which I always do every new thing I buy) I thought, what the hell? But later learned about the distortion thing. I'm a fellow solderhead too. I always say I was born with a soldering iron in my hand, and my mother was not pleased. So I always appreciated the many ways he was able to impact his sound... from building devices to musicianship to production.

[Anderton]

I always say I was born with a soldering iron in my hand...

 

 

As long as you were holding the right end, COOL!

[rasputin1963]

"Oh, yes, Craig Anderton. Of course I remember." I was speechless, and anyone who knows me would realize that's a most unusual condition. He didn't say "Go away, kid, you bother me." I was totally blown away. I always felt that incident reflected nothing about me, but sure as hell reflected a lot about a very kind man who was not above helping some kid get off the ground. Like he did with four kids from Liverpool, albeit with a far greater degree of success Thank you very much, Sir George.

 

 

"The bigger they are, the bigger they are."

[Lee Flier]

I often think about that kind of thing as well. A lot of times at seminars kids come up to me and say "Wow, it must have been great to live through the 60s...the Doors, Led Zeppelin, the Beatles, the Stones..." Whereupon I remind them there was also Lulu, the Lemon Pipers, and the Archies. "Who?" My point exactly Time seems to filter out the worthwhile. I'm sure there were a bunch of hacks during Bach's time you were, y'know, okay but didn't approach what Bach did. His music survived; the others' didn't.

But the point is, there was tons of great stuff from the 60s that survived the "winnowing" process. I wonder how much music from the last decade or two is still going to be remembered in 40-50 years?

[doug osborne]

...I'm sure there were a bunch of hacks during Bach's time you were, y'know, okay but didn't approach what Bach did. His music survived; the others' didn't.

 

 

Bach was not really known outside of his local community in his life. He was a guy with a big family writing music weekly for his church. Telemann was the most famous composer in the time of Bach - hum a few Telemann tunes, I dare you. Vivaldi and of course Handel were well known in concert halls.

[coyote-1]

True. But it's unlikely he would have relied on it to hit his pitches as so many do nowadays....

Woh! Another long thread coming up. Nothing is "out of bounds". Lennon would have loved AT. He jumped at anything that made him sound unlike himself.

I was listening to a "modern mix" local station last week. ALMOST EVERY track had pitch correction on the vox! And it made them all sound alike.

I doubt Lennon would have stuck with it like that.

[Lee Flier]

I was listening to a "modern mix" local station last week. ALMOST EVERY track had pitch correction on the vox! And it made them all sound alike. I doubt Lennon would have stuck with it like that.

 

 

Yeah, that was my point exactly. He might have thought it was a cool effect on a song or two, but then he'd move on. Particularly if other people had already done it first.

[Eddie]

But the point is, there was tons of great stuff from the 60s that survived the "winnowing" process. I wonder how much music from the last decade or two is still going to be remembered in 40-50 years?

This made me think of all the music -good and bad- that will be forgotten and completely disappear

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[Anderton]

But the point is, there was tons of great stuff from the 60s that survived the "winnowing" process. I wonder how much music from the last decade or two is still going to be remembered in 40-50 years?

Well, the Jonas Brothers, for sure! And Hilary Duff, of course. Who could ever forget these paradigms of musical creativity and sophistication?

[UstadKhanAli]

I