Members Burgess Posted August 21, 2011 Members Share Posted August 21, 2011 The "Question to the tone chasers" thread got me thinking. I know, thinking's a dangerous pastime but I digress... A good player can take any serviceable rig and dial it up into a usable tone. It may not be exactly what they would ordinarily opt for but one that they can live with for the gig and would make most of us say that so-in-so had great tone on a given night. Case in point: B.B. King doesn't even take an amp on tour, just has it in his contract that one is provided. I've seen the list of suitable amps from one of his riders and they're just run of the mill mostly SS amps that are readily available. He's just badass and it doesn't matter. I've seen crappy players take boutique rigs and make it sound like complete moist ass. I've also seen killer players take just ordinary GC faire and make it sound absolutely glorious. It's the player, it ain't the gear. Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grumphh Posted August 21, 2011 Members Share Posted August 21, 2011 Wow! This is the first time ever i have seen this topic discussed on a board for guitar players. ...interesting subject, you did some hard thinking there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jpnyc Posted August 21, 2011 Members Share Posted August 21, 2011 The player matters more than the gear, but great players can do great things with great gear. Brian Setzer would sound great on any modeling amp with a decent clean and some delay. But on his modified vintage Bassman amps with a space echo he gets a tone that's simply delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TunaNugget Posted August 21, 2011 Members Share Posted August 21, 2011 It's not just that it still sounds good, to my ears it usually sounds the same in every way that matters. Like when Setzer would put down his Gretsch and pick up an open-tuned Strat to play "Jeanie, Jeanie, Jeanie." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaleH Posted August 21, 2011 Members Share Posted August 21, 2011 Move over Jimi.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayd_mon Posted August 21, 2011 Members Share Posted August 21, 2011 Yes, it's more about the player. However, Satriani, for instance, would have a hard time playing a proper show with a Tele through a Twin Reverb. Also, Tommy Emmanuel might not put on his best solo show if he was only given a Jackson Dinky. I agree that a good player can make gear sound good, but sometimes you need certain things for the music you're playing. Maybe that's not what you meant, but since you mentioned a pro player not really caring what they play through, I just thought I'd bring it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TunaNugget Posted August 21, 2011 Members Share Posted August 21, 2011 Hendrix is another good example. When he plays "Hear my train" on acoustic, Jimi Hendrix gets a tone that makes him sound just like Jimi Hendrix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BB123 Posted August 21, 2011 Members Share Posted August 21, 2011 Move over Jimi.... And let Rover take over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members benzem Posted August 21, 2011 Members Share Posted August 21, 2011 And let Rover take over? Ya you know what I'm talkin' 'bout...get on with it babay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members timmyfirst Posted August 21, 2011 Members Share Posted August 21, 2011 I dont think you even have to be a great player to sound good on any rig. As long a you play in your own style and know how to get the best out of an EQ i think anyone can do it. I sound like me through any rig, i'm not a great player, infact i play like i'm wearing boxing gloves but i know what i do well and i never imitate another player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cratz2 Posted August 22, 2011 Members Share Posted August 22, 2011 I can agree with the thread title as long as the words, 'halfway decent' are placed between 'any' and 'rig'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BoneNut Posted August 22, 2011 Members Share Posted August 22, 2011 I've seen crappy players take boutique rigs and make it sound like complete moist ass. I've also seen killer players take just ordinary GC faire and make it sound absolutely glorious. It's the player, it ain't the gear.Discuss. Nothing to discuss really. You're absolutely right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StillRock Posted August 22, 2011 Members Share Posted August 22, 2011 The real test is : how do they sound on an acoustic? If you can play with no rig, you can play with any rig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hubert Stumblin Posted August 22, 2011 Members Share Posted August 22, 2011 Yes. In fact I'm inclined to agree with timmyfirst sans the EQ bit. I think if you are true to yourself and are about expressing that, whatever your "skill" level, you will sound good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveAronow Posted August 22, 2011 Members Share Posted August 22, 2011 Agree 1000 %. A good player will use what he has available and should still sound decent.Ill take this one step further and say a great player will take just about ANYTHING you give him and make it sound great, even a tissue box with rubber bands streyched accross the top as a "guitar".Lets just call it what it is: the great player is also known as a musician, and what a musician will do, that mere "players" may not, it he will take any tool you give him, tonewise, and use that tone to create musical art with. Take what ever garbage {censored} tone you can imagine, and a true artist will use it in such a way that when he is done, youll be convinced that no other tone would have served the purpose as well. What happens in these cases, is that you have the opposite of what a mere player would do as he tries many times unsuccessfully to force his playing style upon a perhaps less than willing tone with questionable and often dissapointing results; what the true musician does, os hears any tone as potentialFor creating art with, amd he actually lets the tone "play him". H# is guided by what he hears and will use that tone as a gift for inspiring his creativity, as opposed to fighting a tone or resenting the fact that what he is playing is not ideally suited to that tone. The true musician diesnt even worry about it, he will just say "ol, that tone fits best in this application, and in seconds, he will have you beleving that the sound of a kazop is perfect because what he is playing at that moment is absolutwly suited to that tone. How absolutely freeking boring to be stuck with only one or a few favorite tones and never explore the possibilities of creating music you may not have experienced had you not opened your mind and seen tones for what they really are, merely tools for making music. When it comes to creating ANYTHING, the more tools you have available, the greater the range of possibilities for creating art. So instead of tryinh to play tge tone, open your mind and open your ears and the tone will play YOU. The tone already knows what its purpose it. It will tell you exactly what its supposed to be used for if you just listen, use it for what it is and dont try to force it to be something it isnt meant to be and tgen complain about it when it doesnt work out That is the difference between a player and a musicuan. The player plays what he always plays reguardless of tone. The musician lets the tone play him and becomes one with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BoneNut Posted August 22, 2011 Members Share Posted August 22, 2011 Agree 1000 %. A good player will use what he has available and should still sound decent.Ill take this one step further and say a great player will take just about ANYTHING you give him and make it sound great, even a tissue box with rubber bands streyched accross the top as a "guitar".Lets just call it what it is: the great player is also known as a musician, and what a musician will do, that mere "players" may not, it he will take any tool you give him, tonewise, and use that tone to create musical art with. Take what ever garbage {censored} tone you can imagine, and a true artist will use it in such a way that when he is done, youll be convinced that no other tone would have served the purpose as well.What happens in these cases, is that you have the opposite of what a mere player would do as he tries many times unsuccessfully to force his playing style upon a perhaps less than willing tone with questionable and often dissapointing results; what the true musician does, os hears any tone as potentialFor creating art with, amd he actually lets the tone "play him". H# is guided by what he hears and will use that tone as a gift for inspiring his creativity, as opposed to fighting a tone or resenting the fact that what he is playing is not ideally suited to that tone. The true musician diesnt even worry about it, he will just say "ol, that tone fits best in this application, and in seconds, he will have you beleving that the sound of a kazop is perfect because what he is playing at that moment is absolutwly suited to that tone. How absolutely freeking boring to be stuck with only one or a few favorite tones and never explore the possibilities of creating music you may not have experienced had you not opened your mind and seen tones for what they really are, merely tools for making music.When it comes to creating ANYTHING, the more tools you have available, the greater the range of possibilities for creating art. So instead of tryinh to play tge tone, open your mind and open your ears and the tone will play YOU. The tone already knows what its purpose it. It will tell you exactly what its supposed to be used for if you just listen, use it for what it is and dont try to force it to be something it isnt meant to be and tgen complain about it when it doesnt work out That is the difference between a player and a musicuan. The player plays what he always plays reguardless of tone. The musician lets the tone play him and becomes one with it. Great post man. Thanks for taking the time to write it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gas Hed Posted August 22, 2011 Members Share Posted August 22, 2011 I don't completely agree - take the same player, and have him/her play through a Danelectro $20 battery powered amp and a Fender D.R. with effects. What will sound better? Is the discussion about playing ability or gear's ability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members photon9 Posted August 22, 2011 Members Share Posted August 22, 2011 That is the difference between a player and a musicuan. The player plays what he always plays reguardless of tone. The musician lets the tone play him and becomes one with it. Sig-worthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Burgess Posted August 22, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 22, 2011 I don't completely agree - take the same player, and have him/her play through a Danelectro $20 battery powered amp and a Fender D.R. with effects. What will sound better? Is the discussion about playing ability or gear's ability? Maybe you should read the first post... "A good player can take any serviceable rig and dial it up into a usable tone." So the response to your post would be, do you actually seriously consider a $20 Danelectro a serviceable rig? In other words, would you really expect that if you were asked to do a session gig and you were told, "Just bring your guitar, we have amps" that you'd walk in the booth to find that $20 dollar rig would be waiting? Probably not but I'll be honest with you, if it was waiting for me, I would tune up, dial it in the best I could, play my ass off and fully expect the engineer to make it sound amazing. Seriously, and if he/she couldn't then that would be their problem. In the real world though you're probably gonna have a Marshall halfer, a twin, a Roland 120, if you're lucky maybe a Champ, even a modeler or two. I would still suggest that a good player can make any serviceable rig sing with no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Burgess Posted August 22, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 22, 2011 Great post man. Thanks for taking the time to write it out. Yep, great post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members metallica_00 Posted August 22, 2011 Members Share Posted August 22, 2011 I guess it depends on what your view of "halfway decent" is. I was recently noodling around in the store on a G&L Tribute ASAT through one of those Bugera V22 amps. That's what, an $800-900 rig? Halfway decent seems fair. Did it make me a worse player? No. Was it "singing"? No. It sounded acceptable. I want something that sounds good. Would it make an audience cringe or not see me play live? No. But I enjoy playing nicer gear more. And I really care about me the most! I understand Dave Aronow's argument but don't agree with it. I have a certain style, I choose gear that complements that style. While a Teisco and some lo-fi 60s tube amp can be employed "artistically", they would not allow me to accomplish the art I want to do. Every tone has some application, but if you're not interested in the application, what's the point? That's why gear matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mistersully Posted August 22, 2011 Members Share Posted August 22, 2011 they would not allow me to accomplish the art I want to do. this is the most important thing to me it seems that many forget that music is an artform.... people choose to express themselves in different ways.... so there's really no right or wrong answer in any of this but will a good player sound better than a crappy player?.... of course they will.... hardly rocket science Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gas Hed Posted August 22, 2011 Members Share Posted August 22, 2011 Maybe you should read the first post..."A good player can take any serviceable rig and dial it up into a usable tone."So the response to your post would be, do you actually seriously consider a $20 Danelectro a serviceable rig? In other words, would you really expect that if you were asked to do a session gig and you were told, "Just bring your guitar, we have amps" that you'd walk in the booth to find that $20 dollar rig would be waiting? Probably not but I'll be honest with you, if it was waiting for me, I would tune up, dial it in the best I could, play my ass off and fully expect the engineer to make it sound amazing. Seriously, and if he/she couldn't then that would be their problem.In the real world though you're probably gonna have a Marshall halfer, a twin, a Roland 120, if you're lucky maybe a Champ, even a modeler or two. I would still suggest that a good player can make any serviceable rig sing with no problems. I guess we're just in different leagues dude. I don't use engineers, don't do sessions, don't do Marshall halfers. Serviceable to me is cleary different than serviceable to you. Bottom line is that if I hit an E chord and a session guitarist of your choice hits an E chord, there are some rigs that will sound better than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gas Hed Posted August 22, 2011 Members Share Posted August 22, 2011 I guess it depends on what your view of "halfway decent" is. I was recently noodling around in the store on a G&L Tribute ASAT through one of those Bugera V22 amps. That's what, an $800-900 rig? Halfway decent seems fair.Did it make me a worse player? No.Was it "singing"? No. It sounded acceptable. I want something that sounds good.Would it make an audience cringe or not see me play live? No. But I enjoy playing nicer gear more. And I really care about me the most!I understand Dave Aronow's argument but don't agree with it. I have a certain style, I choose gear that complements that style. While a Teisco and some lo-fi 60s tube amp can be employed "artistically", they would not allow me to accomplish the art I want to do. Every tone has some application, but if you're not interested in the application, what's the point? That's why gear matters. I like this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members caveman Posted August 22, 2011 Members Share Posted August 22, 2011 Whether there's any singing involved or not is debatable but I can have a good time with about any rig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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