Guitar Fetish claims that GFS pickups can compete against any boutique brand...

[Preacher]

 

It's a marketing ploy, pure and simple. Since these "hand winders" wind pickups like everyone else, tell me why they insist they are hand wound? Regards, Steadfastly

 

 

Because "everybody" doesn't wind them the same way. A "small" maker like BG who personally winds the pickups and customizes them to the customers request pays more, or at least different, attention to the process as they wind them compared to your average cheap maker or even big companies like DiMarzio. He really does assemble them by hand in addition to guiding a winding device (with his hands). And that is not a marketing ploy.

[axegrinder]

 

Because "everybody" doesn't wind them the same way. A "small" maker like BG who personally winds the pickups and customizes them to the customers request pays more, or at least different, attention to the process as they wind them compared to your average cheap maker or even big companies like DiMarzio. He really does assemble them by hand in addition to guiding a winding device (with his hands). And that is not a marketing ploy.

I have been to Bryan's place. He doesn't guide the device...he guides the wire. If it was as easy as some would have you believe, there wouldn't be a dull inarticulate pickup in the world. Duncan Designs would sound like Seymour Duncans and our pet unicorns would eat rainbows and poop out butterflies.

 

I'd suggest you quit trying to convince the guy. If he actually phoned or emailed pickup makers to "call their bluff" on their use of machinery in winding pickups however he depicts it, then he's not interested in listening. His mind is made up citing the absence of proof. Arguing semantics until we're blue in the face settles nothing. There's way too many variables that go into transducing the notes from a vibrated string to what comes out of the speaker on your amp. It's virtually impossible to prove the case of how pickups are wound and their impacts one way or another. Rely on your own ears and the anecdotal testimony of those you trust.

[Angry Tele]

ok here's hand wound:

[video=youtube;8M2a1yUmvEQ]

 

and here's not hand wound:

(around 7:00)

[video=youtube;iCqrGyEJFqc]

[Doctor Morbius]

If I claimed my farts smelled like a bouquet of roses, would you believe me?

[hardtdc]

 

I'm not arguing. I'm stating the truth. Case in point. I had this discussion on another forum and many there thought that hand wound meant that the pick ups were wound by hand. It may be a moot point to you but it is not to many. It's a marketing ploy, pure and simple. Since these "hand winders" wind pickups like everyone else, tell me why they insist they are hand wound? Regards, Steadfastly

 

 

I guess it has different meanings for everyone. I always viewed "hand winding" as on a machine but guiding the wire by hand, whereas "machine winding" was machine guided. I honestly don't think it's a marketing ploy. I think that's the industry standards and terminology. Now on the other hand, the very first PUs made probably were without machines and truly hand wound.

[axegrinder]

If I claimed my farts smelled like a bouquet of roses, would you believe me?

 

No, but it would be wicked funny if somebody mocked up some ad copy "Jay style" making such a claim.

[Steadfastly]

 

Because "everybody" doesn't wind them the same way. A "small" maker like BG who personally winds the pickups and customizes them to the customers request pays more, or at least different, attention to the process as they wind them compared to your average cheap maker or even big companies like DiMarzio. He really does assemble them by hand in addition to guiding a winding device (with his hands). And that is not a marketing ploy.

 

 

I actually qualified "everybody" on another post but I recognize not everyone reads every post.

 

My question for you if you can answer it is how does he guide the winding device? I know you said with his hands but I'm wondering how he could get the consistency that way. I've seen a video of someone doing it that way for themselves but perhaps he has a way of making them consistently the same way everytime by using his hands.

 

To me, this doesn't make sense. First of all, if he can do it consistently, he may as well just use a machine to do it. Second, it it's not consistent, how does he really know what he's selling and how does a customer know what he's buying? Please enlighten me if I'm missing something here. Regards, Steadfastly

[Steadfastly]

 

 

 

Her answer to the guy's question (around the 35 second mark) of what makes the pickups different when they're wound the way she does them and the way they are done automatically is priceless. "They're aah, different. they're not as uniform this way. Sometimes I move my hand back and forth faster but usually I do it like this." So, they are not consistent.

 

And she's making them for a "master builder" she said.

[Frets99]

Just because pickups are made of simple materials, do not think that anybody can make a pickup. There may be the occasional happy accident but the pickup has to be designed to give a sound that is pleasant to our ears. GFS is littered with pickups that did not make the grade, even after a perfect prototype was made. The next step was getting it manufactured and there were tons of failures go back before they got it right enough to begin production.

[smorgdonkey]

 

As to being smarter or more informed than others, I am neither of these. All of this information you can find on line. However, I am not stupid either and neither would I consider buying from someone who tried to mislead me. It simply shows what they are really like.

 

 

So, here is where you fall off of the rails. Hand wound means a certain thing - it is technical jargon (or at least semi-technical). It means something to those who have SOME knowledge of the subject.

 

Taking your approach to the 'hand wound' label is akin to me dropping a 20 pound weight onto my $2500 Morgan dread from a height of 5 feet and complaining when it shattered..."they said it was made with SOLID WOOD!!"

 

Solid wood means non-laminate and hand wound means manipulated by hand. So, what they should really call the pickups is wound by machine but manipulated by hand while winding? Come on!! Then should they all be descriptive in every other minute aspect of the construction as well like how they soldered or what hand the operator installed the bobbin with?

 

My point is, that your assertion that 'hand wound' is a lie, is ridiculous. If you want to chase a cause then get on hand made guitars first and clear that one up.

[gorebuc]

Without reading the rest of the thread, I doubt that GFS pickups compete against any boutique brand though they offer cool pickups with very definite vibes for a very good price. Loved my Memphis Retrotrons. However, if I can get something similar from Dimarzio, I'm apt to go that route.

 

Can't deny the awesomeness and value of pretty much the entire Retrotron line, though. Probably as good as various OEM incarnations of each pickup's respective style. Not quite TV Jones, I hope, but its not like there is anyone in-between offering versions of these pickups, so good for Jay. The Jazzmaster pickups kill too.

[Steadfastly]

 

Just because pickups are made of simple materials, do not think that anybody can make a pickup. There may be the occasional happy accident but the pickup has to be designed to give a sound that is pleasant to our ears. GFS is littered with pickups that did not make the grade, even after a perfect prototype was made. The next step was getting it manufactured and there were tons of failures go back before they got it right enough to begin production.

 

 

I would think that would apply to designed pickups, though and not copies, wouldn't it Frets?

[Angry Tele]

why is that priceless? thats exactly why they are worth more. People think the way she winds has some magic. Shes been winding it that way since the 1950s.

 

this is the entire basis of the boutique pickup market. The inherent inconsistancy in had winding is what makes them sell. Take her away and you've got $3 in parts.

 

.

 

Now look at the original PAF machine-they were never hand wound yet PAFs are the holy grail of pickups.

 

 

 

 

Her answer to the guy's question (around the 35 second mark) of what makes the pickups different when they're wound the way she does them and the way they are done automatically is priceless. "They're aah, different. they're not as uniform this way. Sometimes I move my hand back and forth faster but usually I do it like this." So, they are not consistent. And she's making them for a "master builder" she said.

 

[Ratbatblues]

If I claimed my farts smelled like a bouquet of roses, would you believe me?

 

That would depend upon if they were expelled by the use of a hand squeeze, or a cheek rise! Please explain what you are saying.

[BoneNut]

 

Her answer to the guy's question (around the 35 second mark) of what makes the pickups different when they're wound the way she does them and the way they are done automatically is priceless. "They're aah, different. they're not as uniform this way. Sometimes I move my hand back and forth faster but usually I do it like this." So, they are not consistent. And she's making them for a "master builder" she said.

 

 

I have a set of Strat pups signed by her. They work perfectly and sound very good.

[smorgdonkey]

 

Now look at the original PAF machine-they were never hand wound yet PAFs are the holy grail of pickups.

 

 

No, the GOOD ones are considered the holy grail. People who have experience with them say that they were inconsistent and that the bad ones were bad and the good ones were outstanding. More mystique? Just bull{censored}?

 

I tend to think that people wouldn't have been spending $275 for a book back when Mr Lollar did a couple printings of a $20 booklet which contained some experiments and many secrets that are learned by trial and error if it was just bobbins and wire.

[Steadfastly]

 

I have a set of Strat pups signed by her. They work perfectly and sound very good.

 

 

I don't doubt that or they wouldn't still be making them that way. However, there is no way they can be as consistent as ones wound on an automatic machine, as she mentioned, so you might get a different sound from some of them. But, do they sound better because she guides them on the winder. I have sincere doubts about that. Each one would have to be tested against one another with all the same criteria. Since no one will do that and sound/tone is subjective, they can go on charging exorbitant prices for what likely sounds no better than ones wound automatically.

 

I'm glad you like what you have and I hope it was worth what you paid for them.

[Angry Tele]

point is the holy grail of Gibson pickups were not handwound, and the holy grail of Fender pickups were. It works both ways.

 

so can a company that doesnt hand wind compete with one that does? Clearly the answer is yes because Gibson and Duncan have been doing it for years.

 

Back then Abigail was a good winder in Leo's eyes because she wound consistantly and fast. Its not easy training unskilled labor to do things like winding, and fretting. Fender hired part time labor for the most part, they would all get laid off once Xmas orders were filled-and most didnt come back.

 

 

No, the GOOD ones are considered the holy grail. People who have experience with them say that they were inconsistent and that the bad ones were bad and the good ones were outstanding. More mystique? Just bull{censored}? I tend to think that people wouldn't have been spending $275 for a book back when Mr Lollar did a couple printings of a $20 booklet which contained some experiments and many secrets that are learned by trial and error if it was just bobbins and wire.

 

[Steadfastly]

 

why is that priceless? thats exactly why they are worth more. People think the way she winds has some magic. Shes been winding it that way since the 1950s. this is the entire basis of the boutique pickup market. The inherent inconsistancy in hand winding is what makes them sell. Take her away and you've got $3 in parts.

 

 

Yes, it's what people "think". It never been proven that they are better and they aren't about to go and do it and prove to everyone that it just isn't so now, are they?

[Geeter]

If I claimed my farts smelled like a bouquet of roses, would you believe me?

 

Perhaps. I am a trusting soul.

[Angry Tele]

 

Yes, it's what people "think" . It never been proven that they are better and they aren't about to go and do it and prove to everyone that it just isn't so now, are they?

 

 

when people like Eric Clapton say its so people listen. I think its mostly bull{censored} too but who cares? Clapton, Beck, Harrison, et al all think heavy guitars sound better, I think thats bull{censored} too.

[Steadfastly]

 

when people like Eric Clapton say its so people listen. I think its mostly @#!*% too but who cares? Clapton, Beck, Harrison, et al all think heavy guitars sound better, I think thats @#!*% too.

 

 

 

If I could play like any of these guys you mention, I wouldn't care what pickups I had. And I don't really care, either but from all the heated comments here on this thread, many hold their pickups close to their hearts. Regards, Steadfastly

[smorgdonkey]

 

If I could play like any of these guys you mention, I wouldn't care what pickups I had.

 

 

Yes, you would. You'd likely care more because you'd care about the nuance and you'd be more tuned in to your tone. Regards, smorgdonkey.

[elsupermanny14]

 

when people like Eric Clapton say its so people listen. I think its mostly bull{censored} too but who cares? Clapton, Beck, Harrison, et al all think heavy guitars sound better, I think thats bull{censored} too.

 

 

Yeah... damn their bull{censored} and their world class tone!

[Angry Tele]

 

Yeah... damn their bull{censored} and their world class tone!

 

 

so you think because they say heavy is better it is? I havent found that to be true. And theres plenty of pros who say the opposite: Keef and Albert Collins prefer light guitars.

 

pros arent immune to hype either.