Members Glenn F Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 Hi there, I have a LP Studio P90 WB. It is a nice guitar, and all, but, even after a fret-leveling and proper set-up, I cannot get the action down to where I want it to be (which I have no trouble at all doing with my other guitars, and, no, I don't like my action too low). The frets are definitely level, and the relief is correct. The buzzing tends to occur anywhere between the 4th and 10th frets. My luthier, an actual Master Guitar Builder, who has done all the work on my other guitars, said that "the guitar was probably made on a Monday." If I sell it, I'll lose more than I am willing to lose, but I really can't enjoy it as is. Does anyone have any idea or suggestions on how to remedy this? Re-fret to jumbos? Thanks in advance! Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members csm Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 Check this at 4:49 ...[video=youtube;iqkK9FXwaac] BTW (1): The song's pretty good, too. BTW (2): How many of what later became the cliches of rock video were invented here? BTW (3): ... and the SMOKING!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GAS Man Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 Doesn't make sense to me. A fret leveling should take care of some degree of irregularities with the neck shape as well as the frets themselves. It makes me wonder if the guy knows what he's really doing. There is indeed more than one way to level out the frets, some methods are aimed more at smaller areas to correct the frets and other methods have a larger leveling span. But let's assume he does know what he's doing. Another possibility is that the nut slots are cut too low. That's actually not uncommon with Gibsons. I recently had that problem with an upper-end Epi Les Paul that was factory Plek'd. The luthier who fixed it said, the old way is still the best way. But check that out. With holding the strings down at the 3rd fret, there should be about the distance between the 1st fret and bottom of the strings of approximately 1/2 the width of the string for that position. I have some Gibsons that have less than that, but still manage to not have excessive fret buzz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Glenn F Posted February 4, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 I'm not buzzing, my guitar is, lol.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Snambo Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 As GAS Man mentioned. I would suspect the nut slots are cut too deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SnowViking Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 Agree - it sounds like it could be the nut slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Glenn F Posted February 4, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 Doesn't make sense to me. A fret leveling should take care of some degree of irregularities with the neck shape as well as the frets themselves. It makes me wonder if the guy knows what he's really doing. There is indeed more than one way to level out the frets, some methods are aimed more at smaller areas to correct the frets and other methods have a larger leveling span.But let's assume he does know what he's doing. Another possibility is that the nut slots are cut too low. That's actually not uncommon with Gibsons. I recently had that problem with an upper-end Epi Les Paul that was factory Plek'd. The luthier who fixed it said, the old way is still the best way. But check that out. With holding the strings down at the 3rd fret, there should be about the distance between the 1st fret and bottom of the strings of approximately 1/2 the width of the string for that position. I have some Gibsons that have less than that, but still manage to not have excessive fret buzz. Thanks for the reply(s)! My eyes are none too good, but my wife says that there is only a very tiny space between the bottom of the 6th string and the fret. GAS Man, my luthier definitely knows what he is doing, but if it is something this simple, he should've caught it. He has 30 years+ experience, and has the title of Meistergitarrebauer, which he had to apprentice for to get that title. He does some really intricate and serious stuff, expensive as well, when insurance companies pay for the work. I'll arrange to have him cut me a new nut. He's put a few on my guitars, and they've all been flawless. I'll keep my fingers crossed that this is the issue. Logically, there aren't that many variables at play here, and if the frets are level, and the relief is good, then??? Cheers! Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Glenn F Posted February 4, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 BTW (1): The song's pretty good, too.BTW (2): How many of what later became the cliches of rock video were invented here?BTW (3): ... and the SMOKING!!!!! Charles: GO TO THE WINDOW! GO TO THE WINDOW! GO TO THE WINDOW! GO TO THE WINDOW! GO TO THE WINDOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Glenn F Posted February 4, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 BTW, I should mention that it doesn't do this in a uniform way (not on every string on the same frets), and hitting open strings causes no buzzing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bdubbs Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 I've heard the same thing about the nut from my luthier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Masterthrash Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 what about a truss rod adjustment sounds like that is probably the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Glenn F Posted February 4, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 Nope. The relief is correct, and I've gone from straight, straight, to curve, with the usual results for both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pope on a Rope Posted February 5, 2012 Members Share Posted February 5, 2012 Nope. The relief is correct, and I've gone from straight, straight, to curve, with the usual results for both. Which way did you turn the nut to reach curve? It sounds like you still need to add some neck relief. If it's not that, then the fret level was not a success. Since the fret buzz is occurring at the 4th through 10th frets you may actually have a wee touch of back bow happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GAS Man Posted February 5, 2012 Members Share Posted February 5, 2012 Thanks for the reply(s)! My eyes are none too good, but my wife says that there is only a very tiny space between the bottom of the 6th string and the fret. GAS Man, my luthier definitely knows what he is doing, but if it is something this simple, he should've caught it. He has 30 years+ experience, and has the title of Meistergitarrebauer, which he had to apprentice for to get that title. He does some really intricate and serious stuff, expensive as well, when insurance companies pay for the work. I'll arrange to have him cut me a new nut. He's put a few on my guitars, and they've all been flawless. I'll keep my fingers crossed that this is the issue. Logically, there aren't that many variables at play here, and if the frets are level, and the relief is good, then??? Cheers! Glenn If you say he's good, I'll believe he's good. But I was mostly dumbfounded on why he couldn't make it right for you. I would just ask him about checking out the nut before you give him the green light on that. Could be that it is a humpty dumpty in the neck, but it just seems like a good luthier could work it out regardless of where the issue lies. My eyes aren't that great any more either, but if you have some automotive feeler gauges laying around, you could could see if the gap is less than .024" on the bass side and .005 on the treble side at the 1st fret (and of course somewhere in between those measurements as you go across the strings). And of course, that's just one typical rule of thumb. As I mentioned above, I do have Gibsons that are lower at the nut than that and still play well. I'm also a low action fan. I like to be able to fret the note or chord, not wrestle with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rburgess Posted February 5, 2012 Members Share Posted February 5, 2012 Wow...a master luthier can't fix fret-buzz? I'm an intermediate guitar builder and have done my share of set-ups and have yet to run across a guitar I cannot fix or diagnose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted February 5, 2012 Members Share Posted February 5, 2012 Are you sure it is fret buzz and not some sort of rattle? You say it is "not on every string on the same frets" but does it happen with the same notes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mind Riot Posted February 5, 2012 Members Share Posted February 5, 2012 Are you sure it is fret buzz and not some sort of rattle?You say it is "not on every string on the same frets" but does it happen with the same notes? I have run into guitars where getting the right relief essentially left the truss rod slack. It would rattle a little inside the neck when certain notes were played that made things vibrate in sympathy. Even if leaving the truss rod slack results in the perfect amount of relief the truss rod still needs a least a little bit of tension on it to keep it from moving around inside. EDIT: Between frets four and ten is also roughly the middle of the truss rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Glenn F Posted February 5, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 5, 2012 Are you sure it is fret buzz and not some sort of rattle?You say it is "not on every string on the same frets" but does it happen with the same notes? No, it is not a rattle. It doesn't do it on the same notes. On one string it will be at the 4th fret, on another string it will be on the 6th-10 fret, etc. I should put up some pics, I guess. Thanks again! Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members smorgdonkey Posted February 5, 2012 Members Share Posted February 5, 2012 Well, I hope the problem gets solved, and if Meistergitarrebauer my luthier definitely knows what he is doing, but if it is something this simple, he should've caught it. He has 30 years+ experience, and has the title of Meistergitarrebauer, which he had to apprentice for to get that title. He does some really intricate and serious stuff, expensive as well, when insurance companies pay for the work. has already seen the guitar then he should have been able to determine the issue quickly and easily...if he hasn't seen the guitar, then you can expect that he'll tell you in very short order what the issue is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Glenn F Posted February 5, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 5, 2012 Thanks. Oh, he's seen it. That's where the comment 'made on a Monday,' came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McCain Posted February 5, 2012 Members Share Posted February 5, 2012 Maybe the fret level wasn't the best. Was a long bar about 16" w/sandpaper used or a short 6" file. Or maybe a fret or two raised up a little after the level or the tops of some frets were removed during the crowning. I would go back and kiss the top of the frets with a long bar/sandpaper to make sure they're level. At least check them with a fret rocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grumphh Posted February 6, 2012 Members Share Posted February 6, 2012 Hi, there is definitely no back bow. The relief is correct, insofar there's about a mm gap @ the 7th fret when holding down the 1st and 13th fret. ...nope, certainly no back bow on that... A mm gap??? You run around in the forrest and play Robin Hood with that guitar? Let's say it this way - 1 mm of relief is WAY to much, and of course the strings in the middle of the neck will buzz like crazy. Straighten it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nicholai Posted February 6, 2012 Members Share Posted February 6, 2012 Twisted neck. The made on a monday thing is BS from a Mausterbater er builder. There is something physically wrong with the guitar causing your problem. That's my bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fretmonster Posted February 6, 2012 Members Share Posted February 6, 2012 Twisted neck.The made on a monday thing is BS from a Mausterbater er builder. There is something physically wrong with the guitar causing your problem. That's my bet. Bingo, twisted neck is my bet as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members omni Posted February 6, 2012 Members Share Posted February 6, 2012 BTW (1): The song's pretty good, too. BTW (2): How many of what later became the cliches of rock video were invented here? BTW (3): ... and the SMOKING!!!!! I want back my 4:49 of life.:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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