Members Wyatt Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Originally Posted by sleewell ^ M9s & G3s are pretty cheap bro, can stack the same type all you want. Originally Posted by kit_strong False. With my HD500 I can chain together 8 modulation effects if I so desire. Oh, so absolute! I didn't say there aren't exceptions. I asnwered the basic question. Keep in mind the Line6 stuff is all software-based simulations running on CPUs, which is the way the trend has been going for a while.But the concept still works when comparing oranges to oranges (modelers to modelers). The M9, etc. is still much cheaper to make and sell than several ToneCores because it can use one decent CPU instead of lots less powerful ones; and it still costs lot more to process more effects...something like the Axe-FX which can stack a hell of lot more effects (32?) because of larger/more CPUs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jpnyc Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Originally Posted by harold heckuba Expensive "boutique" multi FX are coming down the pike. Just give it a couple of years. They won Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IbanezJon Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 I do think pedals sound slighlty better and are more 'authentic' but multi fx units.. with the ability of presets.. give you something which only a midi/rack/pedalboard can give you.. You could have 3 delay/chorus/reverb settings all side by side.. using blank patches so to speak (no amp modelling etc) and use it in the loop of your tube amp.. and have 3 completely different delay or reverb settings.. all for different parts of a song etc. And then have 3 more different ones again for a second song.. etc. All for the price of one decent pedal. They all have their uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BydoEmpire Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 As was mentioned, goods are generally priced based on what people will pay for them, not their cost to manufacture... That said, multi-fx units are one piece of hardware, with software driving the different sounds. Pedals are each a unique piece of hardware dedicated to creating a sound. The design and manufacturing time for the multi-fx hardware is more than a pedal, obviously, but each effect in there is faster and cheaper to add to it. I bought a GT-8 a couple years ago, and spent more time F-ing with the thing than actually playing it. I just couldn't figure out how to get it to sound good consistently. Doesn't mean it's not a nice unit, it means it wasn't right for me. After 6 months of constantly messing around I sold it and went back to my pedalboard. Sure, I spent a little more on my pedals (collectively) than that unit, and it doesn't do as much, but I really like what I have on my pedal board and I know how to use it. There's virtually no learning curve with pedals - plug in, turn knobs, enjoy. There's value in simplicity for me. For other folks that do music that requires a lot of options, or they love tweaking and experimenting with sounds, the GT-8 (or any other unit) might be absolutely perfect. Different strokes for different folks. Despite that experience, I still really want an AxeFX 2. No idea if I'll be able to use it, but it sure and sounds looks cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 I love my multi-fx (ZoomG3). I've owned many analog pedals but don't use them and have sold most as the zoom sounds great. They have come a long way and if you haven't had the chance to try some of the newer ones, I suggest trying one before discounting them. Purists will always want individual pedals but I am very happy with my mult-fx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jtr654 Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 I still use Multi rack Fxs they're easy to tweak and Cheap. A ART Multi Verb can be had for under a $100 and with a Midi control pedal . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rchiav Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Originally Posted by jpnyc They won Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blackface Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Originally Posted by BydoEmpire As was mentioned, goods are generally priced based on what people will pay for them, not their cost to manufacture... That's kind of over simplifying, they're generally priced based on their total delivered cost. They figure out manufacturing, logistics, warehousing, marketing, G&A, etc... Then they guess what people might pay for them and try to match that to a volume (which will impact all of the things I previously mentioned). If there's a small profit margin (5% maybe), then they do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NewRiggins Posted October 20, 2012 Members Share Posted October 20, 2012 Originally Posted by catscurlyear in a live gig situation with custom built pedal boards you can use any or all the fx at once with a multi fx processor you can only assign a few of the fx`s to a patch .there`s total freedom with a custom pedal board. exactly. Sometimes I want chorus on my lead channel, sometimes I don't. I like being able to pick and choose at whim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steve_man Posted October 20, 2012 Members Share Posted October 20, 2012 I have both. While individual pedals are great, I much prefer my HD500. Much easier to set up, much easier to dial in, and the amp models are so good, I can just run direct Then, when I'm done, I pack it up, sling it over my shoulder, and I'm done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zappa74 Posted October 20, 2012 Members Share Posted October 20, 2012 Because multifx are kinda lame. Really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steve_man Posted October 20, 2012 Members Share Posted October 20, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted October 20, 2012 Members Share Posted October 20, 2012 Originally Posted by Zappa74 Because multifx are kinda lame. Really. What's informing your comment? More bluntly, what have you tried and considered lame? I guessing nothing recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members =JL= Posted October 20, 2012 Members Share Posted October 20, 2012 I think Zappa, in '74, would've killed for the processing power we have now. He was always at the cutting edge of new sounds and technology, although a lot of his fans are out of touch these days, despite what he used to say about nostalgia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BydoEmpire Posted October 20, 2012 Members Share Posted October 20, 2012 Originally Posted by Blackface That's kind of over simplifying Well sure, a one line description of economics sort of implies simplification. All the things you mention are certainly factored in to one degree or another depending on the industry, but the fact is that goods priced way above what the market will pay either become cheaper or disappear. Obviously companies try to figure out what the market will pay for something before they spend the money to start creating it.As far as multi-fx go, todays' units weren't built in a vacuum. The GT-10 was built upon knowledge and tech gained from the GT-6, which was built upon previous units. It's not like these units are built from the ground up. The template is already there. This reduces R&D cost, so you get a lot of *stuff* for your money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HeatherAnnePeel Posted October 20, 2012 Members Share Posted October 20, 2012 My main multi-effects unit is my 2006 Vox ToneLab SE. It is still my fave, and it wasn't cheap. There are a lot of cheaper, more powerful units now that are smaller, but it is rugged and I have no plans to replace it. It does everything I need, and then some. I have my older pedal board, which is great, but multi-effects units are my preference. Just my take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members photon9 Posted October 20, 2012 Members Share Posted October 20, 2012 I wanted to like my Vox Tonelab SE but I felt like it was just not there for effects. They just all sound kind of bland to me. The amp stuff is pretty good though, but I like real amps better. I've been considering getting rid of it but it might be worth keeping around as an emergency backup at gigs. The thing is I don't really need a plethora of effects, even though I'm in a cover band. So far I'm fine with a 2-channel amp with switchable reverb, a Boss TU-3 tuner pedal*, a wah, a chorus, and a delay. Out of our 40 or so songs I use the delay on 1 song, the chorus on 1 song, and the wah on about 10. I heard that you can make a delay sound like a chorus so if I figure that out I probably won't use the the chorus anymore either. I think it's a myth that you need a {censored}load of effects to be in a cover band. My opinion is that if you are not playing the notes right then effects aren't going to help you anyway. I don't really enjoy using a bunch of effects either... doing the pedal dance and all that is not that fun. I guess I just like it simple. As mentioned previously single pedals are easier to use, and almost always sound better. I swore off all effects about 5 years ago, and have only started using them again recently because of the necessity of them on a couple songs. If I was in an original band or no band I wouldn't use any except maybe an amp footswitch and a wah. *My fave! I know not an effect but it's worth mentioning because everyone who plays live should seriously consider having one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HeatherAnnePeel Posted October 20, 2012 Members Share Posted October 20, 2012 I like that the effects are subtle with the ToneLab, but that's just me. I am not the sort who is into customizing the settings, and really, I just tend to use a bit of rotary, delay, reverb and wah here and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members photon9 Posted October 20, 2012 Members Share Posted October 20, 2012 I like that the effects are subtle with the ToneLab, but that's just me. I am not the sort who is into customizing the settings, and really, I just tend to use a bit of rotary, delay, reverb and wah here and there. That's cool. I'm glad it's working out for you. I wish it had worked out for me. The ToneLab does decent delay I thought. But yeah subtle is a nice way of describing pretty much all the effects on the tonelab. I guess I just wanted them to be a little more pronounced. At times I felt like it was hard to distinguish whether they were on or off. The wah is where I felt like it really lacked and that was the one effect I really wanted to be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NoRomoFan Posted October 20, 2012 Members Share Posted October 20, 2012 Well the quality of the effects in most mfx units is not up to the standard of the pedals that they are trying to emulate for one thing especially the drive pedals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IbanezJon Posted October 20, 2012 Members Share Posted October 20, 2012 I am going to mention the elephant in the room.. Old farts don't like technology.. and are too lazy to learn how to use it. If they grew up with it.. it'd be a different story. But it's okay.. because the previous generation of old farts wouldn't even know how to sign up to an internet forum.. to even discuss these effect units in the first place! So there are varying degrees! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted October 20, 2012 Members Share Posted October 20, 2012 I am going to mention the elephant in the room.. Old farts don't like technology.. and are too lazy to learn how to use it. If they grew up with it.. it'd be a different story. But it's okay.. because the previous generation of old farts wouldn't even know how to sign up to an internet forum.. to even discuss these effect units in the first place! So there are varying degrees! lol. There is some truth to this. For what it is worth, I remember when music only came on vinyl, there were no bank cards and TV's didn't have remotes but love multi-fx's and enjoy tweaking them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wyatt Posted October 20, 2012 Members Share Posted October 20, 2012 I am going to mention the elephant in the room.. Old farts don't like technology.. and are too lazy to learn how to use it. If they grew up with it.. it'd be a different story. But it's okay.. because the previous generation of old farts wouldn't even know how to sign up to an internet forum.. to even discuss these effect units in the first place! So there are varying degrees! The hole in that argument is, 30 years ago, today's "old farts" (and even some of the "old farts" of that era) all played through rack systems than make a HD500 look like a Duplo toy. Imagine having a rack tuner, rack wireless, two or three rack preamps for OD, one or more rack mutli-FX for modulation, rack multi-delay, rack spring reverb, and a power amp and every single onehad to be programed to switch along with the rest via archaic midi commands. And trust me, racks were just as common in someone's den as they were on stage. For people who weren't playing int he '80's and early-'90's it may seem unfathomable, but guitar tastes weren't always so regressive. Until the early-'90's models like the LP, Tele and Strat, and effects like fuzz and univibes were as unpopular as pointy guitars are today. The popularity of individual effects, and classic effects, didn't return until the early- to mid-'90's along the return to popularity of vintage-style gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HeatherAnnePeel Posted October 21, 2012 Members Share Posted October 21, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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