Members tlbonehead Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Originally Posted by Doctor Morbius Yes they have. I no longer have the desire to go toe to toe against an industry giant that has 70+% of the market share of an industry. It would be a futile effort. And obviously other entrepreneurs have felt the same way because ebay is still the dominant player with little to no real competition. Just because a few people on an internet forum are confused about the definition of the term monopoly, that does not change its meaning. Ebay still remains a monopoly. They don't have to squash any attempts when there are no real world threats. They only need to create a psychological barrier to entry. Q: Why doesn't anybody today try to start up a new company to compete against UPS and FedEx? A: Because these two industry giants have the market sewn up, ergo it's a loosing battle. Same is true with Coke and Pepsi. Two industry giants selling nothing more than sugar water. which company is older between UPS and FedEx? I believe it is UPS. So there is room for both of them to co-exist. Does that make them a co-monopoly? And what about USPS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doctor Morbius Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Originally Posted by tlbonehead but the only "bad" thing they've done according to your version of "monopoly" is come up with a great idea and then put forth the inspiration and perspiration to make it successful. You make it sound like that is a bad thing. Not all business has to be bad. The only thing bad about Ebay is their power to set their own pricing structure without any real competition. I'm in favor of what is best for the consumer, ergo I would prefer the market had several other options. My father and I used to go 'round and 'round on this. He insisted Microsoft wasn't a monopoly and all anyone had to do was start up their own software company in direct competition. Unfortunately, it isn't that easy or other industry giants would have done so. IBM tried. Apple tried. Linux squeaks out an OS or two. But when it's impossible to buy a Dell or go to Best Buy and buy a computer that's not a MAC with a different OS and loaded software, it just isn't there. That's what comprises a monopoly. The only other option is to go to a place like Newegg.com and buy the parts necessary to build a computer and put your own OS on it. However, that represents a very insignificant market share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doctor Morbius Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Originally Posted by tlbonehead but the only "bad" thing they've done according to your version of "monopoly" is come up with a great idea and then put forth the inspiration and perspiration to make it successful. You make it sound like that is a bad thing. Not all business has to be bad. The only thing bad about Ebay is their power to set their own pricing structure without any real competition. I'm in favor of what is best for the consumer, ergo I would prefer the market had several other options. My father and I used to go 'round and 'round on this. He insisted Microsoft wasn't a monopoly and all anyone had to do was start up their own software company in direct competition. Unfortunately, it isn't that easy or other industry giants would have done so. IBM tried. Apple tried. Linux squeaks out an OS or two. But when it's impossible to buy a Dell or go to Best Buy and buy a computer that's not a MAC with a different OS and loaded software, it just isn't there. That's what comprises a monopoly. The only other option is to go to a place like Newegg.com and buy the parts necessary to build a computer and put your own OS on it. However, that represents a very insignificant market share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doctor Morbius Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Originally Posted by tlbonehead which company is older between UPS and FedEx? I believe it is UPS. So there is room for both of them to co-exist. Does that make them a co-monopoly? And what about USPS? UPS is much older. I think they started in the 1920's or 30's. When two or more companies control the dominant portion of the market share it is called an oligopoly. When an oligopoly engages in collusion (illegal in the U.S.) it is a cartel. FedEx started out as an airmail only delivery so they didn't compete directly with UPS until they had a large enough infrastructure and were able to do so. The USPS is by definition a monopoly as it is illegal to compete directly against them. UPS and FedEx are not allowed to deliver mail door to door. They are a package delivery service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doctor Morbius Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Originally Posted by tlbonehead which company is older between UPS and FedEx? I believe it is UPS. So there is room for both of them to co-exist. Does that make them a co-monopoly? And what about USPS? UPS is much older. I think they started in the 1920's or 30's. When two or more companies control the dominant portion of the market share it is called an oligopoly. When an oligopoly engages in collusion (illegal in the U.S.) it is a cartel. FedEx started out as an airmail only delivery so they didn't compete directly with UPS until they had a large enough infrastructure and were able to do so. The USPS is by definition a monopoly as it is illegal to compete directly against them. UPS and FedEx are not allowed to deliver mail door to door. They are a package delivery service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Originally Posted by Doctor Morbius UPS is much older. I think they started in the 1920's or 30's. When two or more companies control the dominant portion of the market share it is called an oligopoly. When an oligopoly engages in collusion (illegal in the U.S.) it is a cartel. FedEx started out as an airmail only delivery so they didn't compete directly with UPS until they had a large enough infrastructure and were able to do so. The USPS is by definition a monopoly as it is illegal to compete directly against them. UPS and FedEx are not allowed to deliver mail door to door. They are a package delivery service. yes, yes, I understand all that stuff. All pretty basic stuff. I'll just have to disagree with you. Microsoft is different in that they did unethical stuff to smash the competition, somewhat like the old Rockefeller Standard Oil. As for USPS, obviously you must realize I was referring to the part where they directly compete against each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Originally Posted by Doctor Morbius UPS is much older. I think they started in the 1920's or 30's. When two or more companies control the dominant portion of the market share it is called an oligopoly. When an oligopoly engages in collusion (illegal in the U.S.) it is a cartel. FedEx started out as an airmail only delivery so they didn't compete directly with UPS until they had a large enough infrastructure and were able to do so. The USPS is by definition a monopoly as it is illegal to compete directly against them. UPS and FedEx are not allowed to deliver mail door to door. They are a package delivery service. yes, yes, I understand all that stuff. All pretty basic stuff. I'll just have to disagree with you. Microsoft is different in that they did unethical stuff to smash the competition, somewhat like the old Rockefeller Standard Oil. As for USPS, obviously you must realize I was referring to the part where they directly compete against each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members duncandonuts Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 I actually prefer using CL for buying but my biggest complaint there is when I do find a guitar I am interested in doing a nationwide search too often the seller will not consider shipping it to me, even when I offer him a premium over the actual cost of doing so. I understand a seller's concern over getting scammed but even after speaking with them in a phone call many still end up being too lazy frankly to complete a sale, no matter how safe the payment procedure I offer them is. A USPS Money Order is every bit as certain as cash money. Going to a post office to redeem it cannot be that big an imposition, can it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members duncandonuts Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 I actually prefer using CL for buying but my biggest complaint there is when I do find a guitar I am interested in doing a nationwide search too often the seller will not consider shipping it to me, even when I offer him a premium over the actual cost of doing so. I understand a seller's concern over getting scammed but even after speaking with them in a phone call many still end up being too lazy frankly to complete a sale, no matter how safe the payment procedure I offer them is. A USPS Money Order is every bit as certain as cash money. Going to a post office to redeem it cannot be that big an imposition, can it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Canadian Jeff Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 People who think ebay and CL suck need to properly look at the alternatives. Newspapers are a great way to reach the people in your town who read it; classifieds cost too and it's still gonna be that same small pond you're reaching; swap meets are a scary joke where mutant scumbags will haggle with you just for sport and the grapevine can be great for higher end stuff where the guys all have money, but crap for those of us trying to unload mid-ranged gear where "I owe yous" are the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Canadian Jeff Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 People who think ebay and CL suck need to properly look at the alternatives. Newspapers are a great way to reach the people in your town who read it; classifieds cost too and it's still gonna be that same small pond you're reaching; swap meets are a scary joke where mutant scumbags will haggle with you just for sport and the grapevine can be great for higher end stuff where the guys all have money, but crap for those of us trying to unload mid-ranged gear where "I owe yous" are the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Originally Posted by duncandonuts I actually prefer using CL for buying but my biggest complaint there is when I do find a guitar I am interested in doing a nationwide search too often the seller will not consider shipping it to me, even when I offer him a premium over the actual cost of doing so. I understand a seller's concern over getting scammed but even after speaking with them in a phone call many still end up being too lazy frankly to complete a sale, no matter how safe the payment procedure I offer them is. A USPS Money Order is every bit as certain as cash money. Going to a post office to redeem it cannot be that big an imposition, can it? As a buyer, I certainly don't feel as secure Paypalling someone money as I do buying on Ebay and paying with Paypal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Originally Posted by duncandonuts I actually prefer using CL for buying but my biggest complaint there is when I do find a guitar I am interested in doing a nationwide search too often the seller will not consider shipping it to me, even when I offer him a premium over the actual cost of doing so. I understand a seller's concern over getting scammed but even after speaking with them in a phone call many still end up being too lazy frankly to complete a sale, no matter how safe the payment procedure I offer them is. A USPS Money Order is every bit as certain as cash money. Going to a post office to redeem it cannot be that big an imposition, can it? As a buyer, I certainly don't feel as secure Paypalling someone money as I do buying on Ebay and paying with Paypal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members duncandonuts Posted January 1, 2013 Members Share Posted January 1, 2013 That is where a USPS Money Order can really weed out anyone attempting a double-cross. I always explain to the seller that since they need to show specific I.D., like a drivers license, to get their money and I had to do the same to get the money order, we both know a record of who we are has been created.Also mentioning that postal fraud is a felony helps to separate someone serious on selling from a possible scammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members duncandonuts Posted January 1, 2013 Members Share Posted January 1, 2013 That is where a USPS Money Order can really weed out anyone attempting a double-cross. I always explain to the seller that since they need to show specific I.D., like a drivers license, to get their money and I had to do the same to get the money order, we both know a record of who we are has been created.Also mentioning that postal fraud is a felony helps to separate someone serious on selling from a possible scammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steadfastly Posted January 1, 2013 Members Share Posted January 1, 2013 Originally Posted by Sheraton I agree. I will usually try to sell on CL first but for anything a little out of the mainstream I do much better on Ebay. I think sellers would do much better on CL if they priced the guitars they sell there relative to what they will net on Ebay. Example: A Gibson 60's Tribute SG selling on Ebay for $625 + 35 shipping = $660. Sellers fees of 9% = $59.40 Paypal fees of 3% = $19.80 Actual shipping = $30 Total costs = $109.20 Net of $660.00 - 109.20 = $550.80 So why wouldn't you list it on CL for $550 and avoid the hassel of packing and shipping? Here's a quick story to illustrate my point: I saw a guitar I was interested in on Ebay and saw the same guitar listed on my local CL for a higher price than the opening bid on Ebay. I emailed the guy and said that I would offer him his opening Ebay price in cash. He refused my offer and said he thought it would go higher. I didn't think so and said I would watch his auction, and if nobody bid on it I would let the auction end with no bid rather than bid the minimum and pay him the opening bid price in cash to help him get a little mor for it than if he had to pay sellers fees and Paypal. Sure enough, no bids on Ebay and the auction ended. I emailed him again to make arrangements to pick it up and pay the opening amount in cash. He backed out saying that he wanted to get more for it. @#!*% . I should have just bid the minimum and let him eat the fees. Moral of the story? If you know what Ebay will cost you, subtract that from what you ask on CL or the Forum and you'll sell more stuff faster. I would use CL as you suggest. In Canada we use Kijiji which is similar to CL and it works fine for me for selling and buying. The only problem is most won't ship as there are no guarantees like on eBay, but if it's within a reasonable driving distance it works great. And I agree the guy was using in good sense. Some people are hard to figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steadfastly Posted January 1, 2013 Members Share Posted January 1, 2013 Originally Posted by Sheraton I agree. I will usually try to sell on CL first but for anything a little out of the mainstream I do much better on Ebay. I think sellers would do much better on CL if they priced the guitars they sell there relative to what they will net on Ebay. Example: A Gibson 60's Tribute SG selling on Ebay for $625 + 35 shipping = $660. Sellers fees of 9% = $59.40 Paypal fees of 3% = $19.80 Actual shipping = $30 Total costs = $109.20 Net of $660.00 - 109.20 = $550.80 So why wouldn't you list it on CL for $550 and avoid the hassel of packing and shipping? Here's a quick story to illustrate my point: I saw a guitar I was interested in on Ebay and saw the same guitar listed on my local CL for a higher price than the opening bid on Ebay. I emailed the guy and said that I would offer him his opening Ebay price in cash. He refused my offer and said he thought it would go higher. I didn't think so and said I would watch his auction, and if nobody bid on it I would let the auction end with no bid rather than bid the minimum and pay him the opening bid price in cash to help him get a little mor for it than if he had to pay sellers fees and Paypal. Sure enough, no bids on Ebay and the auction ended. I emailed him again to make arrangements to pick it up and pay the opening amount in cash. He backed out saying that he wanted to get more for it. @#!*% . I should have just bid the minimum and let him eat the fees. Moral of the story? If you know what Ebay will cost you, subtract that from what you ask on CL or the Forum and you'll sell more stuff faster. I would use CL as you suggest. In Canada we use Kijiji which is similar to CL and it works fine for me for selling and buying. The only problem is most won't ship as there are no guarantees like on eBay, but if it's within a reasonable driving distance it works great. And I agree the guy was using in good sense. Some people are hard to figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brendan Posted January 1, 2013 Members Share Posted January 1, 2013 I sold a guitar for $900 this year and the ebay/paypal fees were ridiculous. On top of that, UPS rates are quite a bit more than I used to pay. After shipping, then you get to wait and see if the buyer is going to screw you. As far as buying, I see WAY more listings from businesses and far fewer private party sales. I used to score all kinds of hard-to-find lefty guitars and now I get to sort through a sea of bottom-rung crap for weeks before something cool comes along. I really wish someone would start an auction site that followed the original ebay rules and fees. I know some have tried with no success... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brendan Posted January 1, 2013 Members Share Posted January 1, 2013 I sold a guitar for $900 this year and the ebay/paypal fees were ridiculous. On top of that, UPS rates are quite a bit more than I used to pay. After shipping, then you get to wait and see if the buyer is going to screw you. As far as buying, I see WAY more listings from businesses and far fewer private party sales. I used to score all kinds of hard-to-find lefty guitars and now I get to sort through a sea of bottom-rung crap for weeks before something cool comes along. I really wish someone would start an auction site that followed the original ebay rules and fees. I know some have tried with no success... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members straycat113 Posted January 1, 2013 Members Share Posted January 1, 2013 I wish someone would come along and put Ebay out of business and someday it will more than likely happen- MySpace anyone? I used to be a big fan of Ebay and never sold one item on it but scored some of the best guitars I own off it. But honestly they have become so lopsidedly in favor of buyers that I actually feel for the sellers lol. Seems to be a lot of guys into masochism here since they don't mind getting ripped a new one. I still don't know how the big boy guitar companies did not band together and sick their lawyers on Paypal who in reality were/are working hand and hand with all the Chinese counterfeiters since Paypal was/is their main source of collecting their money.Atleast the last time I looked at one of those sites a year ago. Does anyone think Paypal would be involved if someone was selling counterfeit currency? Hell no because the Secret Service and the FBI would of kicked in their doors and hit everyone with conspiracy charges lol. Are we to believe they had no clue the thousands of fakes they helped sell they had no idea were fake lmfao. You cant even find good deals on Ebay anymore because everyone and their mother now follows the lead of dealers asking top dollar! But there was a truly good long stretch where you could find some great guitars for great prices, but everyone knows nothing good last forever. The only good thing about Ebay is that you can do a pricey transaction and sleep well knowing you will not get burnt for your scratch as long as you know the right questions to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members straycat113 Posted January 1, 2013 Members Share Posted January 1, 2013 I wish someone would come along and put Ebay out of business and someday it will more than likely happen- MySpace anyone? I used to be a big fan of Ebay and never sold one item on it but scored some of the best guitars I own off it. But honestly they have become so lopsidedly in favor of buyers that I actually feel for the sellers lol. Seems to be a lot of guys into masochism here since they don't mind getting ripped a new one. I still don't know how the big boy guitar companies did not band together and sick their lawyers on Paypal who in reality were/are working hand and hand with all the Chinese counterfeiters since Paypal was/is their main source of collecting their money.Atleast the last time I looked at one of those sites a year ago. Does anyone think Paypal would be involved if someone was selling counterfeit currency? Hell no because the Secret Service and the FBI would of kicked in their doors and hit everyone with conspiracy charges lol. Are we to believe they had no clue the thousands of fakes they helped sell they had no idea were fake lmfao. You cant even find good deals on Ebay anymore because everyone and their mother now follows the lead of dealers asking top dollar! But there was a truly good long stretch where you could find some great guitars for great prices, but everyone knows nothing good last forever. The only good thing about Ebay is that you can do a pricey transaction and sleep well knowing you will not get burnt for your scratch as long as you know the right questions to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NinjaModder Posted January 1, 2013 Members Share Posted January 1, 2013 They didn't used to charge fees on shipping. But then people caught on and started having auctions starting low with a few hundred bucks for "shipping" to avoid high fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NinjaModder Posted January 1, 2013 Members Share Posted January 1, 2013 They didn't used to charge fees on shipping. But then people caught on and started having auctions starting low with a few hundred bucks for "shipping" to avoid high fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members harold heckuba Posted January 1, 2013 Members Share Posted January 1, 2013 Originally Posted by NinjaModder They didn't used to charge fees on shipping. But then people caught on and started having auctions starting low with a few hundred bucks for "shipping" to avoid high fees. True, but what ebay should have done is lowered the fees on the actual item by 1-2% to even out the fees on the shipping charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members harold heckuba Posted January 1, 2013 Members Share Posted January 1, 2013 Originally Posted by NinjaModder They didn't used to charge fees on shipping. But then people caught on and started having auctions starting low with a few hundred bucks for "shipping" to avoid high fees. True, but what ebay should have done is lowered the fees on the actual item by 1-2% to even out the fees on the shipping charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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