No pay, no drinks, never again

[JailTime]

 

The last regular rock band bar gig I did was many years ago in the mission district of San Francisco. The deal was 50.00 a man and all the beer you could drink. we drank a lot. we would tell the bartender over the mike we needed another pitcher on stage and up it would come. We probably went through 20 pitchers a night. People, including the band, were doing coke backstage, smokin weed in the alley, occasionally getting favors from friendly females, and we could usually count on some strippers we knew to show up. Bar fights were common, as were trashy girls and guys who loved rock n roll. We did feel like we were doing the bar a favor to play there cause we packed the place. It was fun as {censored}.

 

 

 

Now that's Rock and Roll.

 

C'mon folks, TRU and dmn's got good points. Bars are where vices live. and we've all got at least one. the entitled whiners crack was great. Workplace safety? Are you kidding me? If you choose to work in that environment, then you are stuck with those occupational hazards.

[daddymack]

Now that's Rock and Roll. C'mon folks, TRU and dmn's got good points. Bars are where vices live. and we've all got at least one. the entitled whiners crack was great. Workplace safety? Are you kidding me? If you choose to work in that environment, then you are stuck with those occupational hazards.

 

Well, yes...and no. Bars are in business to sell booze. That is their licensing. Cigarettes and cigars are not necessarily a mandatory companion to alcohol. In fact, lets face it, in the great scheme of self-damaging party items, tobacco is a relative newcomer. I smoke, but I can certainly go outside (weather permitting) and have a smoke. I spent plenty of years working rooms where the haze hung at knee level when you got on stage. Here in L.A., we were really concerned that the smoking ban would hurt the clubs.... and in some ways it did. Many of the biker bars and dives went under. But the more upscale rooms suddenly got an influx of non-smokers who had eschewed the bar/club scene because of the smoke.

Things change, change is inevitable, embrace the change, or be left behind....wishing that we never heard of lung cancer, second hand smoke, etc is just that...wishing.

[Dandy Don]

Look when are you gonna stand up, you tell the owner we will get free drink's or all those people that WE brought out to see US WILL BE LEAVING!! Now, look at what he would lose, some good music and at least 30 people. First your giving this club free music and 30+ people and now your telling him your taking it away and you think he's gonna let that happen? And now you learned a lesson you won't ever forget NEVER!! NEVER!! give your service's away, Remember this is a buissness

[Scafeets]

To all the would-be libertarians out there -- get real. Your smoke may or may not kill you. The odds are it will, but that's not my problem any more than the wind-in -the-hair-club that refuses to wear motorcycle helmets.

 

I just don't want it raising my insurance rates or taxes. So how about signing a waiver that I don't have to keep your sorry ass on life support after the lungs go black or you split your mellon falling off your Harley?

 

Fair enough?

 

Second-hand smoke: It stinks and it's unhealthy. I have to air out my gear for a couple of days after a bar gig. My wife, who has asthma, can't come see me play. Most of my friends don't want to be around it. I consider it an occupational hazzard and make the best of a bad situation by putting a big-ass fan behind my combo amp and going outside on breaks.

 

So we play to the smokers and the people who can stand being around them. If you haven't noticed, that's a smaller group every year as people wise up or die.

 

I don't know why club owners haven't figured this out yet: There's one place in town that only allows smoking on a back deck. Inside, it's packed from 8PM til 2AM. They start turning people away due to overcrowding by 11. Drinks and the door charge are expensive, and people gladly pay it.

 

I play another place in another town with the same back-porch setup. You have a hard timne finding a seat or space on the dance floor -- even on Tuesday nights for the blues jam!

 

So, my limited research says that banning smoking from a club could increase business. But then, how many smart club owners do you know>?

 

As for free beer -- I remember when that was the norm. But, I've seen enough drunk-ass musicians take advantage of the situation -- not to mention the occassional doofus who was picking up beers to dispense to his friends -- so I can see why bar owners have phased it out. Now, waters and cokes is another thing. The one and only time I got push-back from an owner on that, I said; "{censored} -- here's ten bucks. Put a pitcher of ice water and another one of coke on the stage and keep 'em coming. Let me know if I go over my ten bucks." He was so embarrased he said "Never mind - It's on the house."

[JailTime]

Ok, change is inevitable. I'm not saying that every place that serves alcohol in the world has to be smoke free. But i do think many freedoms are being eroded, and for what? Cigarettes may not be mandatory for booze drinkers, but they are certainly kindered spirits. Ohio has recently passed a smoking ban, and I'm sick of it already. I voted against it. Now, when we play a bar, half the bar isn't listening to the music because they're outside smoking. And one place that we play at - a great hip bar that's always packed - the door is right by the stage, and people are constantly filing in and out to smoke.

 

I dunno, it seems like the fun is being sucked out of music. No smoking, no drinking while playing, no drugs, take the music seriously - it has to be perfect. I just think people want to have a good time, and the finger-waggers keep trying to put a muzzle on that - 'cause it could kill you. Well, no {censored}. There are plenty of places to play music that don't require smoke inhalation and the difficulties that these types of places often offer. But I enjoy those places, and there are pleny of people who didn't vote for the smoking ban. Who cares about their rights? Why are the majority of the people who are actually paying the bills at a place being forced to do the will of people who don't concern them? The owner wants smoking, the patrons want smoking, the bartenders mostly want smoking, what's the big deal? If you don't like it, then go to another joint that bans smoking voluntarily.

[JailTime]

 

To all the would-be libertarians out there -- get real. Your smoke may or may not kill you. The odds are it will, but that's not my problem any more than the wind-in -the-hair-club that refuses to wear motorcycle helmets. I just don't want it raising my insurance rates or taxes. So how about signing a waiver that I don't have to keep your sorry ass on life support after the lungs go black or you split your mellon falling off your Harley? Fair enough? Second-hand smoke : It stinks and it's unhealthy. I have to air out my gear for a couple of days after a bar gig. My wife, who has asthma, can't come see me play. Most of my friends don't want to be around it. I consider it an occupational hazzard and make the best of a bad situation by putting a big-ass fan behind my combo amp and going outside on breaks. So we play to the smokers and the people who can stand being around them. If you haven't noticed, that's a smaller group every year as people wise up or die. I don't know why club owners haven't figured this out yet: There's one place in town that only allows smoking on a back deck. Inside, it's packed from 8PM til 2AM. They start turning people away due to overcrowding by 11. Drinks and the door charge are expensive, and people gladly pay it. I play another place in another town with the same back-porch setup. You have a hard timne finding a seat or space on the dance floor -- even on Tuesday nights for the blues jam! So, my limited research says that banning smoking from a club could increase business. But then, how many smart club owners do you know>? As for free beer -- I remember when that was the norm. But, I've seen enough drunk-ass musicians take advantage of the situation -- not to mention the occassional doofus who was picking up beers to dispense to his friends -- so I can see why bar owners have phased it out. Now, waters and cokes is another thing. The one and only time I got push-back from an owner on that, I said; "{censored} -- here's ten bucks. Put a pitcher of ice water and another one of coke on the stage and keep 'em coming. Let me know if I go over my ten bucks." He was so embarrased he said "Never mind - It's on the house."

 

 

 

I dissagree with everything in your post except the waiver. I would gladly sign a waiver to have a few freedoms that have been yanked away restored. And as for free beer - just because an owner has been taken advantage of by bands in the past does not mean that they have to take it out on another band. I am always respectful and appreciative of the free beer I get. I don't share with my idiot friends, and I know my limit. I don't need some one else determining how much I should or should not drink. If an owner notices a band abusing their acohol priviledges, then they should be charged for it or they won't play at the place again. It just gets me steamed when a single rule is applied uniformly, when all situations are not uniform. There are exceptions, and an owner taking the responsibility to make a their own decision about smoking and checking his/her employees. Even if said employees are a band and are only employees for one night.

[Scafeets]

 

I dissagree with everything in your post except the waiver. I would gladly sign a waiver to have a few freedoms that have been yanked away restored. And as for free beer - just because an owner has been taken advantage of by bands in the past does not mean that they have to take it out on another band. I am always respectful and appreciative of the free beer I get. I don't share with my idiot friends, and I know my limit. I don't need some one else determining how much I should or should not drink. If an owner notices a band abusing their acohol priviledges, then they should be charged for it or they won't play at the place again. It just gets me steamed when a single rule is applied uniformly, when all situations are not uniform. There are exceptions, and an owner taking the responsibility to make a their own decision about smoking and checking his/her employees. Even if said employees are a band and are only employees for one night.

 

 

I'm with you on the free beer part -- just explaining why it's probably a lot less prevalent these days.

So, if you agree with my waiver idea, our only real disagreement is whether or not you have more of a right to stink up a bar than I have to not deal with it. It's really out of both of our hands, since the club owners decide in the states that haven't legislated it.

Here's the deal: I won't whine about smokey bars if you won't whine when the majority of them start to ban smoking. It's gonna happen. Call it democracy, free-market enterprise, whatever. Smokers are already a minority in most places and I understand that bars are just about the last place to go smoke in public. I'm just hoping for a few places to go to hear and play music that aren't smokey.

[danrothmusic]

take the music seriously

 

well, now there's a concept

[MoreGuitars]

I can't ever think of any reason for ever playing for nothing....ever. Not for promise of future work, so called "auditions", friends party, PETA Benefit:blah: :blah: . Would you ask any professional to work for nothing for you? I certainly would not.

 

I think playing for nothing just invites trouble. You would be better off just writing the club owner a check and staying home.

[Dandy Don]

Now one more time Lurko repeat after me! I will never give it away! It does far more harm than good. ******** Lesson learned? God I hope so:lol:

[Lurko]

 

Now one more time Lurko repeat after me! I will never give it away! It does far more harm than good. ***** Lesson learned? God I hope so:lol:

 

 

Did you read my first post? I DID NOT MAKE THIS DEAL. My singer did. I'm not going to walk out on my audience, cheap club be damned.

[Dandy Don]

Ok, the singer booked it that's fine so why didn't he tell you it was gonna be a free show, also why didn't he tell you it was a country bar. What are you guy's some sort of throw together band that show's up at the last min. and none of you know if your gonna be paid, or if you can get a free drink. It's not like your a kid playing your first show! Ok i'll amend my post, Lurko say it with me " I'll NEVER NEVER play another show without a contract " !! If you do this you will at least have the option of taking legal action:thu:

[danrothmusic]

dude, chill out. It means that he trusted his singer to get him a gig that would pay, or at least not suck, not that they're just some joke band who doesn't care

[Lurko]

Ugh. I give up.

[justcrash]

 

Or I could play in some killer clubs in cities and states that aren't stuck in the 1800s when it comes to smoking laws.

 

 

+1 I am so glad they passed a smoking band in Ohio. If the selfish pricks want to kill themselves, fine. They don't need to kill the band, the waier/waitresses, bartender, etc. I HATE smokers mentality.

[justcrash]

Slightly off topic, but I'm utterly baffled at the general opinion regarding smoking. I don't smoke, but it's a bar, for God's sake. That's what your supposed to expect. It's a den of iniquity where people are going to indulge in all of the minor vices and sins denied to them during their mundane workdays. You can wreck your liver, ruin your hearing, get into a fight, and pick up an STD, but somehow smoking is unacceptable? Sheesh. We've turned into a nation of entitled whiners.

 

You're right... "Boo hoo hoo, look at me, I don't want lung cancer... I don't want to stink..."

[Scafeets]

 

+1 I am so glad they passed a smoking band in Ohio. If the selfish pricks want to kill themselves, fine. They don't need to kill the band, the waier/waitresses, bartender, etc. I HATE smokers mentality.

 

It's easy to fall into that mind-set, but I just feel sorry for 'em. I was a 2-pack a day man for 5 years and quit a long time ago. It wasn't that hard for me, but I have good friends and band members who have tried again and again to quit. For some people, it's really hard and I feel bad for them. They know it's an anti-social, self-destructive vice, but they can't quit. Almost all of them have cut down by virtue of no longer smoking on the job, in restaurants, at practice, in non-smokers' homes, etc. So, a ban on smoking in bars just may help these folks get off the cancer sticks once and for all.

But we really need to address it as an addiction, not a lifestyle. For the belligerent few who delude themselves into thinking they have a constitutional right to poison the rest of us, that's just the nicotene talking. Deep down, they know it's a bogus argument. Unless they're so delusional that they still smoke in a car with small children, they probably know they're on the ultimate end of a losing argument.

[justcrash]

It's easy to fall into that mind-set, but I just feel sorry for 'em. I was a 2-pack a day man for 5 years and quit a long time ago. It wasn't that hard for me, but I have good friends and band members who have tried again and again to quit. For some people, it's really hard and I feel bad for them. They know it's an anti-social, self-destructive vice, but they can't quit. Almost all of them have cut down by virtue of no longer smoking on the job, in restaurants, at practice, in non-smokers' homes, etc. So, a ban on smoking in bars just may help these folks get off the cancer sticks once and for all. But we really need to address it as an addiction, not a lifestyle. For the belligerent few who delude themselves into thinking they have a constitutional right to poison the rest of us, that's just the nicotene talking. Deep down, they know it's a bogus argument. Unless they're so delusional that they still smoke in a car with small children, they probably know they're on the ultimate end of a losing argument.

 

 

My mother has smoked all of her life. She is down to 30% capacity in one lung, the other is shot. She has a TON of health problems and defends smoking to this day.

 

My father died of lung cancer, denied it was the cigarettes all the way through.

 

I remember getting burned with cigraettes by my parents all the time (not intentional). I remember waving the smoke from my face when I was a boy and my mother saying "Oh grow up, you {censored}, it won't hurt you!"

 

I am 33 and have played in bars since I was 15. Hell, I have been in bars where they were kind enough to put the exhaust fan DIRECTLY BEHIND THE STAGE so the band was getting hit with all the smoke all night.

 

I have never touched a cigarette, ever, and every check up, I have to convince my doctor I don't smoke because of how my lungs sound. I exercise 3-5 times a week and I have no doubt I will end up with lung cancer.

 

I have more of an understanding of older folks who started smoking before all of the focus on health issues related to smoking came up, as opposed to jackasses my age and younger who KNEW what it did, KNEW it was a waste of money, KNEW it stained their teeth, KNEW it stunk up your clothes and your home, KNEW their smoke was causing harm to other people.

 

That being said, I hate the smoker in general, and loathe the ones who cannot understand that other people don't want to deal with it.

 

I didn't become a musician so I could inhale smoke. If I had my choice, I would never play in a bar again, as I hate drunks. However, drunks can be amusing and their drinking won't hurt my liver. The gigs are in bars, so that is where we go. I was born a musician, I wasn't given a choice. I have pictures of me at 2 years old playing a toy kiss guitar singing a beatles song. "Get another hobby"? Go screw (not you, just people who feel that way in general).

 

[Ender_rpm]

In NYC, when the smoking ban was passed, after the first few months of adjustment, the clubs and bars started making more money. Most places that have put smoking bans in place have seen similar results. But there is still those first couple months, when a lot of places close up because they don't have the cash reserves to stay open that long. Its an odd cycle.

[fling the poo]

I've been on both sides of the bar but i came out with this. a pint of beer costs the bar between .08 and .018 cents. your average person in a bar drops about 20 bucks at the bar. if the band drinks and has fun, the people will drink and have fun. if the band doesn't drink and has fun the people will still drink. if your venue looks like a graveyard and you're walking around bummed there aren't more people there, as opposed to partyin with the folks who ARE there then the bar won't sell drinks.

 

If our band wasnt' playing that club that night they wouldn't be increasing their bar by 500-1000 bucks even in a small venue. so give the band all the drinks they want off the pabst and bud kegs and give em 50 cent wells or dollar shelf. keep them happy and the bar will sell more. I've seen 30 people drop a g on the bar becuase they are having a good time.

 

sometimes we forget the small things. bars have bands to bring in patrons. if we bring in patrons then we should get housed. i guarantee you more goes down the drain than a band can drink on the night.

[Li10]

hey we should all keep a diary, that has the titles of every place/bar you have ever gigged in. When you play there, take notes in your diary - then you can decide whether to go back there or not. That's what I'm gonna do when I start gigging.

 

DAVID MEAD ROCKS. That's who came up with this. Well he popularized it anyway.

[fling the poo]

there are online resources like underground railroad and BYOFL to do this. i wish more folks took part tho

[jwlussow]

I didn't become a musician so I could inhale smoke. If I had my choice, I would never play in a bar again, as I hate drunks. However, drunks can be amusing and their drinking won't hurt my liver. The gigs are in bars, so that is where we go.

 

Very well stated......

[justcrash]

Very well stated......

 

Thank you, sir.

[BlueStrat]

Here's 2 reasons I quit smoking...my wife said if I quit for a year, I could get a bike. Four years ago I did, and the money I would have spent on cigarettes paid for half of it.