Double kick pedal technique for someone starting out...

[barny15]

I just recently (in the last few days) bought a Gibraltar double kick pedal to mess around with. I'm not a metal player and never will be, but I'm really interested in expanding my playing and improving my footwork so I thought investing in a double kick pedal would be a great way to do that (as well as build some leg strength).

 

Thing is, I really have no idea how to approach playing with a double pedal. After a good solid few hours of goofing around with them, I can do runs of doubles, triplets and quads in conjunction with the rest of the kit, but not very solidly. My biggest questions in terms of approaching double kick technique are 1) What sort of exercises would be good for a beginner to start out with? Should I just keep messing around and wait for things to develop naturally? 2) Should I focus on speed first and then technique, or technique and then speed? 3) and this is the most important, What foot does one typically start a run/sequence with (I'm right handed/footed)?

 

Also, how many drummers use a double kick pedal in their setup? Would be interesting to know. Discuss double kick pedals and technique.

[aenemated]

1 - take the first page of stick control and play the patterns with your feet with a basic 8th's on the hats, 2 and 4 on the snare. start simple. this is what my old teacher had me do and i feel like it worked pretty well.

2 - technique first - always. speed will come. besides, if you can't play a part slow, how're you gonna play it fast?

3 - no right answer for this; whatever the part calls for. if you've developed both feet properly; it'll come to you.

 

i used to play a lot of double kick when i was younger, but the direction i've gone musically in the last couple years ... it's not really needed. still have my dw9002; but i don't even set up the slave pedal anymore.

[1001gear]

People always recommend GLS Stick Control to beginners and I tend to caution against it. Reason being it's unpredicated (spell check doesn't think that's a word BFD) and actually quite advanced. So nothing personal.

 

Anyway, besides SC doesn't care if you just stare at your sticks or if you even have one, pedals raise a whole different set of issues. They are machines and need to be calibrated individually. Their response is directly tied in to the setup and isn't uniform across the range of use. That's at least a chapter in itself.

 

The other problem is the original. Technique. You'd do well to have a teacher supervise your development in this area.

 

Anyway that aside, I have old Gibby doubles and they work fine if you understand the previous points.

I have them set like fixed single pedals. 40 ish degree angle, about 6 inches of extension, and maximum tension. Nothing exotic; not even weights.

 

That's at least another chapter, so consult a teacher.

 

What to get started on after all that is discovering how your pedal acts when you step out a note. It's the natural resistance and recoil - the 'swing', that's always going to govern you feel and timing. The critical word is timing because if you aren't timing it, you're fighting it.

 

So get a metronome, set it around 50 BPM and *feet separately* practice whole notes, half notes and quarter notes. They each present different issues which you'll discover soon enough.

 

And take 2 aspirin and call me in the morning.

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

same technique as for single pedal

 

but two foot now

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

exercices are the same patterns as for two hands

 

but two foot now

[Cratz]

Don't want to play metal? Honestly, my advice is to avoid the double unless you have {censored}ing Mike Johnston's right foot. In that case, you're beyond my advice.

 

EDIT: I notice you've already bought a double... I guess you could learn to do five stroke rolls with your feet (downbeat on the snare) for the novelty. Like, instead of a quick double before a snare/whatever hit, do a "quad." Bonus points if you can do it while keeping a pulse on the hats w/ your left foot.

 

In a poor attempt to tab:

 

1 e & a 2 e & a 3 e & a 4 e & a

H H H H H H H H

S S S S

bbbb bbbb

 

Lame, I know, but I can't convey rhythm so well through text.

 

EDIT2: FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU- My tab has failed me.

[Cratz]

I dunno about hand exercises, though. Most of those come in handy when moving a pattern across different drums, but we can't ALL be Thomas Lang. Your average-setup drummer would better spend his time on straight up hats/kick independence rather than l/r kick coordination, if you follow.

 

{censored}, I wouldn't even use a double for metal if people weren't so caught up with fast singles on the kick. I have a fast enough right foot to belt out some 16th notes, but sixlets and 32nd notes are the norm now.

[cdawg]

 

People always recommend GLS Stick Control to beginners and I tend to caution against it. Reason being it's unpredicated (spell check doesn't think that's a word BFD) and actually quite advanced. So nothing personal. Anyway, besides SC doesn't care if you just stare at your sticks or if you even have one, pedals raise a whole different set of issues. They are machines and need to be calibrated individually. Their response is directly tied in to the setup and isn't uniform across the range of use. That's at least a chapter in itself. The other problem is the original. Technique. You'd do well to have a teacher supervise your development in this area. Anyway that aside, I have old Gibby doubles and they work fine if you understand the previous points. I have them set like fixed single pedals. 40 ish degree angle, about 6 inches of extension, and maximum tension . Nothing exotic; not even weights. That's at least another chapter, so consult a teacher. What to get started on after all that is discovering how your pedal acts when you step out a note. It's the natural resistance and recoil - the 'swing', that's always going to govern you feel and timing. The critical word is timing because if you aren't timing it, you're fighting it. So get a metronome, set it around 50 BPM and *feet separately* practice whole notes, half notes and quarter notes. They each present different issues which you'll discover soon enough. And take 2 aspirin and call me in the morning.

 

 

why you suggest max tension??

[louied78]

I do play metal and rock, and I love the double pedal. There are fills you can do that include the doubles. Just because you have a double doesn't mean you should play 16th notes on the bass drum all day. There are many other things you can do that add a little bit more to your beats and fills. One of my favorites is playing doubles over doubles. You play almost like a flam but a bit more spread out. 2 snare hits, 2 bass hits, 2 tom, 2 bass, 2 tom, 2bass, 2 snare, 2bass, snare flam. Start very slow and then work your way up. This is a very common way that many metal drummers play their tom rolls that make them sound insanely fast when in fact they are much slower and played with less effort than they sound. It can be played slow and looser as well, and it still sounds good. Also there are a lot of beats that become easier with the doubles. As you get more used to it you can lead with your left foot at times when maybe your right isn't able to get back in as quick. It makes it easier to play off beat rythms and some real funky beats. There are many others too, have fun with it.

[1001gear]

 

why you suggest max tension??

 

 

It's very difficult to match primary and slave in feel AND timing. With my Gibbies max tension tends to override the unequal mass and timing issues. Beyond that, max spring makes the beater return faster. Period. The technique requires you time the phase of the stroke but that's how you swing sticks so getting your feet to do it isn't that much of an issue.

[cdawg]

hmmm. the way i play, max tension would be fairly difficult to get even strokes. but i've been doing this for a while, so i guess it's different. but, it took me a long time to get rid of the BD mashing technique and develop more of a dynamic, controlled attack.

[1001gear]

Like I said it's timing. I play on the back end of the foot board as well lolz. Heel up or down. To strike the drum you tap or depress the pedal slightly and release. This puts the pedal in motion winding itSELF up. It's directly analogous to lifting your sticks before hitting the drum. You then simply apply the required impetus on the forward swing; very little force and no stomp required.

[cdawg]

i see.

 

i went a different route. i suspend my leg so my foot is barely touching the pedal. my ankle is loose, and the ball of my foot is the only thing touching the pedal, usually near the front of the pedal. i set medium tension. i, typically, only use my whole leg on accents, so i can control dynamics better, crescendos, etc. for faster parts (doubs, trips, quads, etc,) i notice i do slide back and forth a tad.

[rdrummer322]

I am definitely not a metal player but I use a double pedal.

Some things to mess around with:

1: If you are a normal righty, try playing your left foot slave pedal along with your hihat. Both beats play together. Options are limitless.

2: Try leading 16th notes with a left food lead. By sliding your foot over and catching the hihat with your left foot lead you will be doing 16th note bass runs with a steady hihat 8ths, something unheard of in metal drumming yet easy to accomplish.

3: Try basic rudiments. a simple paradiddle, doubling your left foot with the hihat pedal will open up a whole new world of potential fills. Flamadiddles are even better.

[cdawg]

 

I am definitely not a metal player but I use a double pedal. Some things to mess around with: 1: If you are a normal righty, try playing your left foot slave pedal along with your hihat. Both beats play together. Options are limitless. 2: Try leading 16th notes with a left food lead. By sliding your foot over and catching the hihat with your left foot lead you will be doing 16th note bass runs with a steady hihat 8ths, something unheard of in metal drumming yet easy to accomplish. 3: Try basic rudiments. a simple paradiddle, doubling your left foot with the hihat pedal will open up a whole new world of potential fills. Flamadiddles are even better.

 

 

you should start a thread with your double bass "workout tricks." you have some really good ideas, jim.

[1001gear]

 

i see. i went a different route. i suspend my leg so my foot is barely touching the pedal. my ankle is loose, and the ball of my foot is the only thing touching the pedal, usually near the front of the pedal. i set medium tension. i, typically, only use my whole leg on accents, so i can control dynamics better, crescendos, etc. for faster parts (doubs, trips, quads, etc,) i notice i do slide back and forth a tad.

 

 

 

 

Very traditional. Can be very articulate if mastered. I have difficulty balancing on the front of the pedal. Puts strain on my back holding my legs up. For me playing on the back half gives enough fight to support my legs tippy toed.

[cdawg]

 

Very traditional. Can be very articulate if mastered. I have difficulty balancing on the front of the pedal. Puts strain on my back holding my legs up. For me playing on the back half gives enough fight to support my legs tippy toed.

 

 

gotcha. it came at me accidently. i rock my son to sleep (used to,) almost every night, and i did it heel-up, going between both feet. try that on thick shag for about 1/2 hour every night for a while, it'll build muscles. especially if you're controlling up and downs, slowly.

 

i still struggle a bit with balance, too. i might get a backrest for my throne.

[rdrummer322]

 

you should start a thread with your double bass "workout tricks." you have some really good ideas, jim.

 

 

Every single time I sit down I am confronted with what I can't do. It is easy to start a practice session with what I can do or what I'm close to accomplishing, but my brain always brings me back to what I should be trying.

I'll never be as good as I could be, yet the journey is what makes drumming fun.

[cdawg]

 

Every single time I sit down I am confronted with what I can't do. It is easy to start a practice session with what I can do or what I'm close to accomplishing, but my brain always brings me back to what I should be trying. I'll never be as good as I could be, yet the journey is what makes drumming fun.

 

 

truth. that's what made me work harder on my single kick technique. i have a really good double pedal, but i don't feel the need to move on to it just yet. there are plenty of cool things i want to pull off with a single kick, especially in the genre of music that i play. not many single kick players in the heavy style.

 

i still get odd looks when i show up to a gig with a single kick pedal.

[turdadactyl]

http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Double-Bass-Drumming/dp/0634014676/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I1SXHARPPZZE2W&colid=2D9W9YX633HYX

[irnbru83]

One of my favorites is playing doubles over doubles. You play almost like a flam but a bit more spread out. 2 snare hits, 2 bass hits, 2 tom, 2 bass, 2 tom, 2bass, 2 snare, 2bass, snare flam.

 

There are many things that I can do proficiently with my hands and feet, but for whatever reason, this style of fill eludes me. It's fine slow, but no matter how much practice I put in, speeding up to even a moderate pace gets it all bent out of shape.

 

It's quite embarrassing, but we all have our crosses to bear. If this is mine, I'll live

 

 

 

And the book that Turd posted is awesome. I enjoy it.

[irnbru83]

My last post was rather unproductive for the original topic, so here are a couple of introductory things I was taught when starting out.

 

1) Play constant 16ths with feet and hands matching up. Work on consistency and accuracy, i.e. right foot and right hand strike at same time, left foot and left hand strike at same time.

 

2) Play constant 16ths with feet and 8th note fills with hands.

 

3) Play constant 8ths with feet and 16th note fills with hands.

 

 

After this kind of stuff, my teacher had me playing jazz style ride patterns and latin-feel tom work coupled with double-kick, just to free up some independence.

 

And use a metronome. And start slowly.

[Cratz]

 

I do play metal and rock, and I love the double pedal. There are fills you can do that include the doubles. Just because you have a double doesn't mean you should play 16th notes on the bass drum all day. There are many other things you can do that add a little bit more to your beats and fills. One of my favorites is playing doubles over doubles. You play almost like a flam but a bit more spread out. 2 snare hits, 2 bass hits, 2 tom, 2 bass, 2 tom, 2bass, 2 snare, 2bass, snare flam. Start very slow and then work your way up.

 

 

Yeah, but that can be done with one foot and a bit of practice. Why handicap yourself into needing two feet for a one foot fill?

[mparsons]

 

Yeah, but that can be done with one foot and a bit of practice. Why handicap yourself into needing two feet for a one foot fill?

 

 

You do that at 16th notes at any tempo over 150 with one foot and get back to me.

[Cratz]

 

You do that at 16th notes at any tempo over 150 with one foot and get back to me.

 

 

I mean, I'm not one to look down on people, but 150? Come on dude, you could've said 200 or something. If you can play a simple double exercise at 150 you should be about to do 2/2s at that speed easily. ex- 1e a2 &a e& 4 &, repeat. 4/2s are where single pedal work gets tricky simply because it feels weird.

 

EDIT: But this is exactly my point. You're so used to a double that some commonplace single pedal work seems impossible to you. I really mean no offense, but youtube some actual GOOD single pedal drummers (i.e. not me) and prepare to have your mind blown. There are guys out there who do it with a single as fast as I do it with a double...