Divorce, depression, confusion

[Weirdocat]

Originally posted by Craigv Then every time a woman acts like Total Bitch because she's got PMS, her SO has every right to kick her ass for the misery she's caused. Disease. Disorder. Syndrome. Explain how the symantics make one excusable, the other not. Be sure to "Get it right".

 

Disease has undesireable connotations, making it seem transmissible, like a virus. It is not. It is a disorder of the mind that can be treated.

 

Your comment isn't exactly along the same lines now is it? If a woman acts like a total bitch, of course the man has the right to react badly to her PMS (and she in return has the right to react to him suggesting that the reason she's so emotional is because of her "time of the month" ). Plus, PMS is a different disorder, being primarily hormone related (apparently), and can't really be compared to depression. Well it can, but not in this conversation.

 

But this man told his wife he didn't want to be with her any more, after 15 years of marraige. I'm trying to see things from her side, and how upsetting it must be, regardless of him thinking he may be suffering from depression. Without meaning to rub the salt into the wound, a decision like that is pretty big and isn't exactly carried out without some grounding. IT's going to take a lot of working and talking together before trust is re-established.

[Bonoman]

Originally posted by Weirdocat Disease has undesireable connotations, making it seem transmissible, like a virus. It is not. It is a disorder of the mind that can be treated.

 

So, in your opinion cancer is a disorder and not a disease?

[s4001]

 

Originally posted by Weirdocat er.. it's a disorder. Different from a disease. Get it right.

 

 

Sorry, you're wrong. I used to think the same as you until it hit home. There are verifiable neurological and chemical persistant imbalances in the brain that cause true clinical depression. I'm not saying that all depression is a disease. Of course not. But believe me, TRUE bone-crushing depression is no small matter.

[vanlatte]

Originally posted by Weirdocat Disease has undesireable connotations, making it seem transmissible, like a virus. It is not. It is a disorder of the mind that can be treated. Your comment isn't exactly along the same lines now is it? If a woman acts like a total bitch, of course the man has the right to react badly to her PMS (and she in return has the right to react to him suggesting that the reason she's so emotional is because of her "time of the month" ). Plus, PMS is a different disorder, being primarily hormone related (apparently), and can't really be compared to depression. Well it can, but not in this conversation. But this man told his wife he didn't want to be with her any more, after 15 years of marraige. I'm trying to see things from her side, and how upsetting it must be, regardless of him thinking he may be suffering from depression. Without meaning to rub the salt into the wound, a decision like that is pretty big and isn't exactly carried out without some grounding. IT's going to take a lot of working and talking together before trust is re-established.

 

For the record, I am in *NO* way looking to blame depression, or anything else for that matter, for my decisions and the hurt that I have caused. That's all me. If depression *is* somewhere in this whole mess, now I have guilt and regret to pile on top of it so the last thing I want to happen is to ignore that (like I ignored the years leading up to this) and have another meltdown someday.

 

 

And fight nice, kids

[Weirdocat]

 

Originally posted by s4001 Sorry, you're wrong. I used to think the same as you until it hit home. There are verifiable neurological and chemical persistant imbalances in the brain that cause true clinical depression. I'm not saying that all depression is a disease. Of course not. But believe me, TRUE bone-crushing depression is no small matter.

 

 

dear lord.

 

Yes, there are chemical imbalances, yes there is a concordance rate of 70% amongst Monozygotic twins implying a genetic or enviromental influence.. and yes, clinical depression is NO laughing matter.

 

But it is referred to as a disorder, not a disease.

[Weirdocat]

Originally posted by vanlatte For the record, I am in *NO* way looking to blame depression, or anything else for that matter, for my decisions and the hurt that I have caused. That's all me. If depression *is* somewhere in this whole mess, now I have guilt and regret to pile on top of it so the last thing I want to happen is to ignore that (like I ignored the years leading up to this) and have another meltdown someday. And fight nice, kids

 

and I am not placing the blame upon your suggestion of a mood disorder for your actions! However, I was raising the issue of your wife, and how great she must be (as you already know ) for overlooking your previous actions.

[s4001]

 

Originally posted by Weirdocat dear lord.

 

 

 

 

Depression

 

An Illness, Not a Weakness

 

Depression is a common medical illness. More than 18 million Americans suffer from some type of depression, and one in eight people needs treatment for depression during his or her lifetime. Depression is not a character flaw. It is neither a "mood" nor a personal weakness that you can change at will or by "pulling yourself together."

 

Depression has become a topic of great interest. Regularly, we hear it discussed on TV and see it written about in newspapers and magazines. With the growing awareness that depression is an illness with probable biological causes, people may find it easier to share their fears and feelings with their family and others.

 

Who Gets Depressed?

Everyone can

[Weirdocat]

 

Originally posted by s4001 *snip*

 

 

I'm not going to say any more on this. It is an affective mood disorder, and has been classified as such for a long time. And no website you've just googled is going to change that. Until a new study is developed classifying it as a disease, I (and many other people at my university, along with professors, counsellors and doctors) are going to keep calling it a disorder, and not a disease.

[Geddy'sFavHeadache]

i can really relate guys, com on.. I'm bipolar, though do alright.

 

it took way too long to get me on the right meds, but when i did, it made alll the difference in the world! I take Zoloft for anxiety/depression and Zyprexa for Mood/mania. If you really want to know more ask me. Hell i researched my disease and was a test subject for awhile, so i can really relate dude:)

[s4001]

We can agree to disagree. Unfortunately I've known way too many psychiatrists, counselors, MD's who think differently. And I've seen it all too close.

 

Bottom line is, nobody really knows what's going on int the brain in a deep fashion.

[Weirdocat]

Originally posted by s4001 We can agree to disagree. Unfortunately I've known way too many psychiatrists, counselors, MD's who think differently. And I've seen it all too close. Bottom line is, nobody really knows what's going on int the brain in a deep fashion.

 

someone had better alert all the people who publish my textbooks then!

 

we shall agree to disagree.

[Sixgun77]

 

Originally posted by Weirdocat [bVanlatte, use whatever works. If you get prescribed drugs, take them.

 

 

+1000

 

Cat, I wasn't trying to diminish or demean any profession, I was just saying what did and didn't work for me. Paxil worked great for my brother, but I'm pretty sure he's suffering some long term side affects from it. Paxil alleviated HIS symptoms, but I reacted very badly to it. But please Vanlatte find help from somewhere and don't let any social preconceptions about seeing a therapist or taking medication stop you from getting help.

[Weirdocat]

Originally posted by Sixgun77 +1000 Cat, I wasn't trying to diminish or demean any profession, I was just saying what did and didn't work for me. Paxil worked great for my brother, but I'm pretty sure he's suffering some long term side affects from it. Paxil alleviated HIS symptoms, but I reacted very badly to it. But please Vanlatte find help from somewhere and don't let any social preconceptions about seeing a therapist or taking medication stop you from getting help.

 

I know you weren't But it's a common response to someone who's seeking help for depression.. "don't use drugs man, they {censored} you up/don't work/made me worse". Takes all the fun out of it

[Geddy'sFavHeadache]

 

Originally posted by s4001 We can agree to disagree. Unfortunately I've known way too many psychiatrists, counselors, MD's who think differently. And I've seen it all too close. Bottom line is, nobody really knows what's going on int the brain in a deep fashion.

 

 

not necisarily. look at me! i got a Federal Govt job, doin great:D and it's at the point where i can function like i used to before i used drugs when i was a teenager. i was a test subject, but with a F^%ked up mental health center. now i'm with MHCD (Mental Health Center of Denver) and they really saw potential and got me on the right meds:) they helped me get this job, in a sense. though have another oportunity to get a different govt job, just have to take a Civil Service test. wish me luck fellas:cool:

[Zamfir]

Sorry, gents, but Weirdocat's right on the terminology.

 

Depression is most definitely classified as a "mood disorder" in the DSM-IV (standard diagnostic manual for clinicians). Among a host of other mental disorders.

 

What the exact distinction between disease and disorder is, if any, I don't know. A quick look on the Internet suggests quite a tangle of terms. There might not even be that big a distinction (other than that "disease" might sound scarier, and thus be good at generating funds to treat the label...?) ? One source was suggesting that "disease" refers to impairment of vital organs (i.e., life-threatening) versus "disorder" as abnormal functioning writ large.

 

If I had to guess - "Disease", IMO, has connotations of biological and genetic causes.

 

"Disorder" sounds to me a wider term, as if it includes biological and genetic causes, but also has room for psychological and/or environmental/social causes. (I.e., biological or genetic causes are not necessary conditions, such that you can obtain the outcome of some mental disorders without biological or genetic causes?)

 

But I don't know that that distinction would hold up to scrutiny.

[vanlatte]

Originally posted by Zamfir But I don't know that that distinction would hold up to scrutiny.

 

I don't care what it's called, I just want to put it behind me.

[bnyswonger]

 

Originally posted by vanlatte I don't care what it's called, I just want to put it behind me.

 

 

Hang in there pal. You'll be in my thoughts & prayers.

[s4001]

Originally posted by Geddy'sFavHeadache not necisarily. look at me! i got a Federal Govt job, doin great:D and it's at the point where i can function like i used to before i used drugs when i was a teenager. i was a test subject, but with a F^%ked up mental health center. now i'm with MHCD (Mental Health Center of Denver) and they really saw potential and got me on the right meds:) they helped me get this job, in a sense. though have another oportunity to get a different govt job, just have to take a Civil Service test. wish me luck fellas:cool:

 

Ah, but we all know you're kinda nuts anyway.

[Weirdocat]

Originally posted by Zamfir Sorry, gents, but Weirdocat's right on the terminology. Depression is most definitely classified as a "mood disorder" in the DSM-IV (standard diagnostic manual for clinicians). Among a host of other mental disorders. What the exact distinction between disease and disorder is, if any, I don't know. A quick look on the Internet suggests quite a tangle of terms. There might not even be that big a distinction (other than that "disease" might sound scarier, and thus be good at generating funds to treat the label...?) ? One source was suggesting that "disease" refers to impairment of vital organs (i.e., life-threatening) versus "disorder" as abnormal functioning writ large. If I had to guess - "Disease", IMO, has connotations of biological and genetic causes. "Disorder" sounds to me a wider term, as if it includes biological and genetic causes, but also has room for psychological and/or environmental/social causes. (I.e., biological or genetic causes are not necessary conditions, such that you can obtain the outcome of some mental disorders without biological or genetic causes?) But I don't know that that distinction would hold up to scrutiny.

 

YES! *victory lap*

[Zamfir]

Originally posted by Weirdocat YES! *victory lap*

 

 

*must not make crack about victories in connection with laps*

[s4001]

Originally posted by Weirdocat YES! *victory lap*

 

Ahem

 

The AMA

 

"NOTE:__This report, written in response to_ Resolution 114 (A-03), represents information and AMA policy on this subject as of June 2004.

 

 

Full Text

 

 

The burden of suffering that results from chronic disease and its impact on the health care system have increased dramatically over the past century. Today, 7 of 10 people die because of a chronic illness.1 More than 90 million people live with a chronic disease and 1 in 10 have a disabling condition that limits activity. Chronic disease accounts for more than 75% of the nation's total costs for medical care. The annual direct medical costs associated with selected chronic diseases are approximately as follows: diabetes ($44 billion), arthritis ($22 billion), cardiovascular disease ($300 billion), depression ($12.4 billion), and asthma ($5.1 billion).1,2 In a recent analysis of Medicare claims data, Berenson and Horvath3 found that 78% of Medicare beneficiaries had at least one chronic disease and approximately 32% had four or more. The burden of chronic disease accounted for approximately 79% of Medicare spending for 1999.

 

Mine:

It apppears the jury is still out. From personal experience, I know they haven't figured this thing out yet, so in that regard labels are pretty much meaningless.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Originally posted by Weirdocat I'm not going to say any more on this. It is an affective mood disorder, and has been classified as such for a long time. And no website you've just googled is going to change that. Until a new study is developed classifying it as a disease, I (and many other people at my university, along with professors, counsellors and doctors) are going to keep calling it a disorder, and not a disease.

 

 

Then following Zamfir's Google'd information regarding Disease vs Disorder:

 

 

Originally posted by Weirdocat YES! *victory lap*

 

 

So it's okay to be condescending and dismissive if the information doesn't agree with your opinion, but when it does (and in this case even that's dubious) agree, it's party time? WTF?

 

Which is it?

 

Regardless. You split semantic hairs to deflect my original issue with you, which was your at best insensitive and at worst harmful comments regarding a possibly depressed person's need for an "ass-whooping". It doesn't really matter if it's a disease or disorder for the purposes of the discussion, now does it? If it's a disorder, great; does that mean it's time to whip out a fresh can of whoop-ass??

[Zamfir]

Originally posted by Craigv Then following Zamfir's Google'd information regarding Disease vs Disorder:

 

 

Just for the record: I was speculating on disease vs. disorder, and merely mentioning the mess I Googled up.

 

But the classification of depression as "mood disorder" is right there in black and white in the spousal unit's copy of the DSM-IV. That wasn't Googled.

 

I think we all need a Prozac.

[Weirdocat]

Originally posted by Craigv Then following Zamfir's Google'd information regarding Disease vs Disorder: So it's okay to be condescending and dismissive if the information doesn't agree with your opinion, but when it does (and in this case even that's dubious) agree, it's party time? WTF? Which is it? Regardless. You split semantic hairs to deflect my original issue with you, which was your at best insensitive and at worst harmful comments regarding a possibly depressed person's need for an "ass-whooping". It doesn't really matter if it's a disease or disorder for the purposes of the discussion, now does it? If it's a disorder, great; does that mean it's time to whip out a fresh can of whoop-ass??

 

since when was I condescending and dismissive? I grew frustrated over the misconception that depression is classed as a disease, which it most certainly is not. Your ignorance on the matter grows clearer with each post you make. No, it doesn't really matter, but it is important that you understand not to place such labels upon people. Disease, as I mentioned earlier, holds more harmful connotations than "disorder". If you're so concerned for Venlatte's wellbeing, maybe you should accept that terminology? And for the record, it is not my opinion, but stated fact (at the moment).

As for my "insensitive and harmful comments".. I think that should be left up to Vanlatte to hike me up on it.. which so far, he has not. He is more than aware of the situation, and I am fully confident he will approach it with the best will in the world.

 

And finally... my response to Zamfir's response was pure joy at finally having someone on my side Whilst fighting a lone battle is fun at best, it's always nice when someone shares your opinion. Especially when it's backed up by a weighty tome of DSM-IV

[niomosy]

Originally posted by vanlatte I don't care what it's called, I just want to put it behind me.

 

That's probably a good attitude to have