Members burdizzos Posted July 10, 2006 Members Share Posted July 10, 2006 Originally posted by bassplayer7770 I demand PROOF!!!! The proof is in the juice! Ahhhh Oooohhh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 10, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 Originally posted by lug Do they go to work? Please explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted July 10, 2006 Members Share Posted July 10, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv Please explain. I was inquiring whether the "Chicoms" proceed to their jobs under their own free will. I thought it was pretty clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 10, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 Originally posted by burdizzos Again, you're wrong.In 2004 Wal-mart bought $18 billion in Chinese goods.Here's the top ten for that same year:(in millions of dollars)EU 142,106 USA 136,527 Japan 135,826 Hong Kong 88,589 ASEAN 84,613 ROK 72,573 Taiwan Province 63,476 Russia 17,114 Australia 16,253 Canada 12,701 SourceThat puts Walmart 8th.Also, Wal-mart has stores in 15 other countries, so not all of the Chinese product is making it to US shelves. I'd really like to hear you back up your facts. I'm sure you could go on, but it would be more bull {censored}. Could be he's still correct...he didn't state *what* the 80% represented....80% of money spent is what you posted, but he may have been looking at 80% of individual items or some other statistic. That's always the trouble with stats.... Regardless of whether his claim was wrong, it's totally {censored}ed up that Wal-Mart is 8th only behind *countries* in spending for Chinese goods. What percentage of their annual sales is earned by the sale of Chinese goods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 10, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 Originally posted by lug I was inquiring whether the "Chicoms" proceed to their jobs under their own free will. I thought it was pretty clear. Not really, and I still don't get your drift, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted July 10, 2006 Members Share Posted July 10, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv Not really, and I still don't get your drift, sorry. I'm not drifting that I'm aware of. ....checks floor..... nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted July 10, 2006 Members Share Posted July 10, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv Could be he's still correct...he didn't state *what* the 80% represented....80% of money spent is what you posted, but he may have been looking at 80% of individual items or some other statistic. That's always the trouble with stats....Regardless of whether his claim was wrong, it's totally {censored}ed up that Wal-Mart is 8th only behind *countries* in spending for Chinese goods. What percentage of their annual sales is earned by the sale of Chinese goods? Wal-mart is the world's largest retailer. The bulk of their product is disposable crap that people buy in temendous volume. It seems completely reasonable that they would be in the top ten. The AFL-CIO link states that "Wal-Mart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 10, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 Originally posted by lug I'm not drifting that I'm aware of. ....checks floor..... nope. Maybe the floor's moving with you. Like when you're stopped in traffic between two buses and they both start moving at the same time and you jam your brakes even though you're stopped because it feels like your car is rolling backwards...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 10, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 Originally posted by burdizzos Wal-mart is the world's largest retailer. The bulk of their product is disposable crap that people buy in temendous volume. It seems completely reasonable that they would be in the top ten. The AFL-CIO link states that "Wal-Mart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted July 10, 2006 Members Share Posted July 10, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv Maybe the floor's moving with you. Like when you're stopped in traffic between two buses and they both start moving at the same time and you jam your brakes even though you're stopped because it feels like your car is rolling backwards...... Couldn't I be on a cruise ship sipping a Pina Colada and imagining the land slipping away instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted July 10, 2006 Members Share Posted July 10, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv How 'bout you chill a second. I was pointing out that his statistic wasn't specific. I'm neither defending nor accusing him, so don't go jumping all over my {censored} now too. And again, I didn't say Wal-Mart is 'wrong', I said that people who buy from them are the problem. Oh, you'll know when I jump all over your {censored}. He mentioned the same statistic twice using the same phrasing. The information that I found directly contradicts his claim and he has yet to come back and defend his point. Just curious, is it "right" for people to go to their local mom and pop shop to buy their Chinese products? Most people cannot afford to buy American. Should they just do without for the good of the nation? yanking your chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 10, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 Originally posted by lug Couldn't I be on a cruise ship sipping a Pina Colada and imagining the land slipping away instead? Will there be any of your MP3's playing in the background? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 10, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 Originally posted by burdizzos Oh, you'll know when I jump all over your {censored}. He mentioned the same statistic twice using the same phrasing. The information that I found directly contradicts his claim and he has yet to come back and defend his point. Just curious, is it "right" for people to go to their local mom and pop shop to buy their Chinese products? Most people cannot afford to buy American. Should they just do without for the good of the nation? yanking your chain. No, actually I'm of the "whittle your own" philosphy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted July 10, 2006 Members Share Posted July 10, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv Will there be any of your MP3's playing in the background? http://users3.ev1.net/~woodd/huntforsailing.mp3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 10, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 Originally posted by lug http://users3.ev1.net/~woodd/huntforsailing.mp3 Is that a gunshot, or someone killing a cockroach with a 2x4? I know it's not a drum sample..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted July 10, 2006 Members Share Posted July 10, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv Is that a gunshot, or someone killing a cockroach with a 2x4? I know it's not a drum sample..... I think "killing a cockroach with a 2x4" fits nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 10, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 Originally posted by lug I think "killing a cockroach with a 2x4" fits nicely. Okay thanks for letting me know. Now I can limp to a corner somewhere and die.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J. Posted July 11, 2006 Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Most of the stuff I get at walmart is the same stuff I can get anywhere else. IAMS cat food, Lysol disinfectant spray, Tylenol, Hefty trash bags, etc. They have their house brands of course, but so does Target, ShopKo, etc. Why do people always talk like everything sold at walmart is cheap chinese crap exclusively made for that specific retailer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 11, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by J. Most of the stuff I get at walmart is the same stuff I can get anywhere else. IAMS cat food, Lysol disinfectant spray, Tylenol, Hefty trash bags, etc. They have their house brands of course, but so does Target, ShopKo, etc. Why do people always talk like everything sold at walmart is cheap chinese crap exclusively made for that specific retailer? I was talking like most of what's sold at Wal-Mart, Kmart, Target etc. is Chinese. In terms of stock it's the overwhelming majority of items.....virtually everything in toys, housewares, sporting goods, and consumer electronics. 90% of automotive, seasonal and clothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ec437 Posted July 11, 2006 Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by burdizzos So Wal-mart is forcing people to buy their items?Aside from that point, your 80% is completely wrong.Here's a link to an AFL-CIO website. They claim that Wal-mart is responsible for "nearly 10 percent of all Chinese goods sold in this country that year". But then, the AFL-CIO is probably cooking the books to favor Wal-mart.The San Franciso Chronicle agrees, but they are a pack of right wing corporate spin doctors too, right? If you're going to bring statistics to the party, get your {censored} straight. You're right, I'm sorry. I mixed up that 10-13% with the sentence talking about 80% of walmart's suppliers being in China written a few lines below it on the second half of page 154 in the book China Inc. by Todd C. Fishman. And again you are right, walmart would not be China's fourth largest export market, but their fifth, ahead of Germany and Great Britain. (Again from page 154 of the above named book.) Some more statistics on walmart:Walmart is the world's largest company. Walmart is bigger than ExxonMobile, GE, and General Motors, and its annual sales exceed that of Target, Sears, KMart, JCPenney, Safeway, and Kroger combined. In 2003 Walmart's annual sales matched the GDP of switzerland, which was around 260 billion dollars. Which in effect, means they are large enough to bully companies into doing what they want. And they do just that. That sets off a chain reaction, that sends more and more manufacturing offshore. That offshore manufacturing ends up almost entirely in China, because of the country's current social dynamics. There, my {censored} is straight, but the principles remain the same. Happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ec437 Posted July 11, 2006 Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by burdizzos Oh, you'll know when I jump all over your {censored}. He mentioned the same statistic twice using the same phrasing. The information that I found directly contradicts his claim and he has yet to come back and defend his point. Just curious, is it "right" for people to go to their local mom and pop shop to buy their Chinese products? Most people cannot afford to buy American. Should they just do without for the good of the nation? yanking your chain. If american factories were managed effeciently, most people could afford to buy american. Go read some TPS books. Also, I'm not so much opposed to offshore production as I am opposed to the chinese government. Tiananmen square, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted July 11, 2006 Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by ec437 If american factories were managed effeciently, most people could afford to buy american. What do you base this statement on? I work with Fortune 500 companies somewhat regularly with my business. I see the opposite regularly. Some of my clients include ExxonMobil, Citgo and Caterpillar. Short of quoting a book somewhere on the subject, what's your first-hand experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 11, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by Thunderbroom What do you base this statement on?I work with Fortune 500 companies somewhat regularly with my business. I see the opposite regularly. Some of my clients include ExxonMobil, Citgo and Caterpillar. Short of quoting a book somewhere on the subject, what's your first-hand experience? Don't hold your breath waiting, there's nothing to indicate that statement as true. It doesn't matter how 'efficiently' you run the shop if your labor costs $50+ per man-hour plus benefits and your competition's cost is $2 per man-hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ec437 Posted July 11, 2006 Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by Thunderbroom What do you base this statement on?I work with Fortune 500 companies somewhat regularly with my business. I see the opposite regularly. Some of my clients include ExxonMobil, Citgo and Caterpillar. Short of quoting a book somewhere on the subject, what's your first-hand experience? Well if you really want to know, I do have first hand experience. I'm currently working for a lean production consulting agency whose largest base client is nike, and whose owner has also done work with boeing and other large companies. My duties include putting together case studies, summarizing books on the subject, and making powerpoint presentations. With little effort or cooperation, productivity within a factory can be improved as much as 40% within a week. If more effort is put forth, productivity can go through the roof. Hows that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted July 11, 2006 Members Share Posted July 11, 2006 Originally posted by ec437 There, my {censored} is straight, but the principles remain the same. Happy? Not quite, you've changed principles too. First you stated that "Walmart is possibly the biggest driving force behind offshore production at this time." They clearly are not. Now your point is that Wal-mart is a huge corporation that bullies competitors. You vaguely referenced that in your first post, but you hung your hat on the 80% statistic because it is more damning. None of this changes the fact that no one forces anyone to shop at Wal-mart. Secondly, most smaller retailers are also pushing chinese products, but at higher prices since they don't deal in the volume that Wal-mart does. Hate the Chinese gov't all you want, but aside from a global military action, the only thing that will change things in China is money. China is still a {censored}ty place to live, but as their market opens, things start to change. It's already apparent. What would happen if the world decided to boycott chinese products? Would the Chinese gov't lose power or gain power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.