Rap

[The Aardvark]

This thread was inspired by a new Fergie song that my kids were listening to.

Admittedly, I don't listen to much rap. But most of what I have heard boils down to one of two things. If it's a guy rapping then it boils down to "I'm rich." If it's a girl rapping it boils down to "I'm hot."

[Synonym Music]

Correction: mainstream rap.

[hi.flyer]

i like rap music/hip-hop very much. even some in the mainstream... just like pop, and rock, and everything else...

[Anesthesia]

And this is exactly why I find rap to be the epitomy of crap music.

 

I think you will find alot of people who 'like' rap don't even know what they are on about and only 'like' it so they can hang with the 'in' crowd.

 

And also...when people think a song released 2 years ago is 'old', you know they have an altered perception of reality

 

DISCLAIMER: please note that I understand that there is some decent rap. In fact I like some Hip-Hop a whole heap, as long as it's not going on about how 'good' the artist is.

[hi.flyer]

why do you consider a song about someones wealth, attractiveness, ability to sling crack and pimp out strumpety hos, spinning rims, etcetera etcetera, to be worse than a song about any other topic?

 

if someones problem with rap music is lyrical (specifically, subject matter that offends them), i would just like to point out that, generally, i find rap lyrics/rapping to be more skilled in their poetic uses of assonance, consonance, and various slant rhymes than the majority of rpck or pop lyrics/singing.

[Synonym Music]

Don't make me bring some Lamont Dozier up in here mother{censored}ers!!!!

 

Oh wait...

[Anesthesia]

Originally posted by hi.flyer why do you consider a song about someones wealth, attractiveness, ability to sling crack and pimp out strumpety hos, spinning rims, etcetera etcetera, to be worse than a song about any other topic?

 

Well actually, (in my opinion anyway) yes.

 

It seems like the only point of those songs is to point out the 'greatness' of the artist, and self-proclaimed greatness at that.

 

The song doesn't tell an interesting story, or deliver a message.

 

Listen to 'Imagine' by Lennon...now THERE is a song with a message. Rap may rhyme 'better' than other genres, but what's the point if they can't deliver a message? Listen to the album 'Tommy' by The Who, or 'The Wall' by Pink Floyd. Now those albums tell stories, they arn't just songs, they are portrayles of the artists feelings told lyrically.

 

If rappers need to point out their own greatness to sell records that's good and well, I just find it pointless.

 

Don't let my point of view trouble you though

[hi.flyer]

Originally posted by Anesthesia Well actually, (in my opinion anyway) yes. It seems like the only point of those songs is to point out the 'greatness' of the artist, and self-proclaimed greatness at that. The song doesn't tell an interesting story, or deliver a message. Listen to 'Imagine' by Lennon...now THERE is a song with a message. Rap may rhyme 'better' than other genres, but what's the point if they can't deliver a message? Listen to the album 'Tommy' by The Who, or 'The Wall' by Pink Floyd. Now those albums tell stories, they arn't just songs, they are portrayles of the artists feelings told lyrically. If rappers need to point out their own greatness to sell records that's good and well, I just find it pointless. Don't let my point of view trouble you though

 

im not troubled, and i wouldnt want to trouble you. i just enjoy conversation.

 

i dont think story telling is a prerequisite for a song. and i woudl say that these artists are (ideally, at least) quite often portraying their feelings lyrically. it makes no difference (to my mind at least) if the personal feelings that are being portraying relate to strippers and chronic, or some sort of social issue, or romance or whatever... to me, its all artistic expression, just different topics.

 

and cmon, its not like there arent a lot of rock songs that are also about sex, drugs (and my favorite, the post-modern meta-"rock song about rock" song )

[Anesthesia]

Originally posted by hi.flyer and cmon, its not like there arent a lot of rock songs that are also about sex, drugs (and my favorite, the post-modern meta-"rock song about rock" song )

 

Indeed there are...but they are rarely about the artist being good because he's a drug dealer...rock songs about drugs are usually about how much the artist enjoys them (Tom Petty: Mary Jane's Last Dance, The Beatles: Got to Get you Into my Life)

[hi.flyer]

Originally posted by Anesthesia Indeed there are...but they are rarely about the artist being good because he's a drug dealer...rock songs about drugs are usually about how much the artist enjoys them (Tom Petty: Mary Jane's Last Dance, The Beatles: Got to Get you Into my Life)

 

well {censored}, man, someones gotta hook up john and paul! and though i of course like to hear about their psychedelic adventures under the cellophane flowers etcetera etcetera, i also want to hear how their connection had to escape the dastardly hands of the police, as well as crazed beatlemaniacs, afer completing the narcotic transaction.

 

at this point it just comes down to subjective, personal taste. i can completely understand how someone would be interested in other stories than i am.

 

of course, it would be silly for me to only like hip-hop for lyrical reasons... i also really, really like phatty bass and drum grooves and if along the way i happen to be slid some weird samples, minimalist guitar plucks, wagnerian portamento synth melodies, or what have you, then all the better.

[Adrenochrome]

I haven't heard much hip-hop recently that is particularly funny, clever or inventive. Even Eminem was witty and inventive in his rhyming when his first album came out. But then I've probably only heard mainstream stuff recently which generally seems dire. Recommendations?

[Texas Noise Factory]

I've enjoyed Peeping Tom lately, as well as some oldschool Public Enemy. It takes a nation.... Dabrye and International Pony's hip hop type stuff is pretty cool too.

[Super Bass]

check out Sage Francis

 

http://www.strangefamous.com/

 

&

 

http://www.myspace.com/sagefrancis

[Funkee1]

Originally posted by Anesthesia Well actually, (in my opinion anyway) yes. It seems like the only point of those songs is to point out the 'greatness' of the artist, and self-proclaimed greatness at that. The song doesn't tell an interesting story, or deliver a message. Listen to 'Imagine' by Lennon...now THERE is a song with a message. Rap may rhyme 'better' than other genres, but what's the point if they can't deliver a message? Listen to the album 'Tommy' by The Who, or 'The Wall' by Pink Floyd. Now those albums tell stories, they arn't just songs, they are portrayles of the artists feelings told lyrically. If rappers need to point out their own greatness to sell records that's good and well, I just find it pointless. Don't let my point of view trouble you though

 

It probably won't change any of your minds, but there is a historical context to rap being about how great the artist is.

 

When Hip- hop began, the focus was on the DJ, and his ability to scratch. Since most DJ's didn't speak much, they usually brought an MC, or Master of Ceremonies, or as some might say, a Mic Controller, with them The job of the MC was to introduce the DJ.

 

Now a lot of these early hip hop shows were competitions between neighborhoods, so naturally, a lot of early rap was about how "My DJ can beat your DJ", "My Hood is better than your hood", and "MY Skills are Better than your skills".

 

Again, this factoid might not change any of your minds, but I felt you needed to know That is why so many rap songs are about how great the artist is.

[Tim in WV]

Even Eminem was witty and inventive in his rhyming

 

I remain convinced that the real reason Em made it was because he spoke in relitive terms very slowly and whitely so everybody could understand his ass. add some decent hooks and the fact that he has/had skillz.

 

but most of all, NO ONE could not understand him - not even 80 year grannys if they cared to. Everyone knew exactly what he said at the time.

[Tim in WV]

I also think comparing Tommy to rap music is just silly. There's something to be said for genre and age.

 

That I think IS a defensible statement is that the quality of "music" coming from the urban/black segment has been reduced so far in quality and statement of purpose/reason for being ( and this is also true of much so called music made by other races) from 30-40 years ago that is strains to be called music in the first place.

 

Some of this may be due to my age ( 43 year old fart ) but I sure dont hear much music when I turn on the local "hot hits" station. What I hear is people that can barely sing ( or many times cant sing) being backed by no known human musicians ( only programmed machines), MOST of the time.

 

Some people would say that tech enables these people to be "artists" but the dirty secret is that none of them know how to run the tech themselves. They're Hired by he people with the money, and the trend continues.

 

It my be my age showing, but I think there's been a very deliberate trend to dumb down entertainment in the same manner that many of our other public social systems have been done over the last 30-40 years. There's more money in sellin {censored} to dumb asses than in having to make a real song.

 

howss dem apples?

 

 

 

 

 

[SpaceGhost]

 

Originally posted by SYN Correction: mainstream rap.

 

Exactly.

 

 

I don't like rock music because Nickelback, Limp Bizkit, and *insert any mainstream rock band* sucks.

[DevilRaysFan]

Eminem raps very polyrhythemically (did I spell that right?) and, to me, has really justified the artform. The problem with rap is that there are too many hack rappers in the mainstream. Nothing turns me off more than a rapper eating the microphone - because this person does not understand mke technique - overdriving a PA system and having really juvenile dumb rhymes

 

Im old school I guess: Grandmaster Flash and The Furious Five ( with Doug Wimbish on bass) was the {censored}

 

Girls are a problem too. If you call a girl a "bitch or a ho" she's probably gonna' take a swing at you...However, if a rapper starts rappin "bitch and ho", chances are that girl will be shakin that ass on the dancefloor in under two seconds flat

[Shuma Gorath]

This falls under the "If you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all" category for me. Let's just suffice it to say I consider mainstream hip-hop/r&b to be a step backwards for the entire human race.

[BassMaster General]

Originally posted by achtung jackass check out Sage Francis http://www.strangefamous.com/ & http://www.myspace.com/sagefrancis

 

Very good call:thu:

One of the best out there right now IMHO.

[hi.flyer]

 

Originally posted by Tim in WV Even Eminem was witty and inventive in his rhyming I remain convinced that the real reason Em made it was because he spoke in relitive terms very slowly and whitely so everybody could understand his ass. add some decent hooks and the fact that he has/had skillz. but most of all, NO ONE could not understand him - not even 80 year grannys if they cared to. Everyone knew exactly what he said at the time.

 

 

+1 i agree with this absolutley. eminem always sort of had this inexplicable rep as being 'a white guy, but he can rap really good! hes even one of the best rappers of all time!! GIVE HIM AN OSCAR!!!' yet i was never really all that impressed with his lyrics or his technique. YMMV, of course, but i mean cmon! its not like there arent guys that are rapping more polyrythmically/syncopated than him, there are. there is a slew of great rappers who already justified the artform years before eminem ever appeared on the scene.

 

im not playing the "ZOMG RACIST" card here at all, but i think the idea of a white, lower/middle-class rapper with lyrics about raping his wife and killing homosexuals was more palatable to some listeners than some scary dude from the hood rapping about his hustling proficiency or guns or spinning rims or whatever.

[BassMaster General]

 

Originally posted by Shuma Gorath This falls under the "If you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all" category for me. Let's just suffice it to say I consider mainstream hip-hop/r&b to be a step backwards for the entire human race.

 

 

I consider the same thing for mainstream music in general....

[Adrenochrome]

 

Originally posted by Tim in WV Even Eminem was witty and inventive in his rhyming I remain convinced that the real reason Em made it was because he spoke in relitive terms very slowly and whitely so everybody could understand his ass. add some decent hooks and the fact that he has/had skillz. but most of all, NO ONE could not understand him - not even 80 year grannys if they cared to. Everyone knew exactly what he said at the time.

 

 

This may be true. As a typical English person it's true that many references will be lost on us as well as a lot of the slang. Someone with very clear enunciation will probably do better in the UK. I enjoyed Public Enemy and De La Soul in the 80s, but the amount of sampling of other music they did then is not allowed now if I'm correct?

[BassMaster General]

 

Originally posted by Adrenochrome I enjoyed Public Enemy and De La Soul in the 80s, but the amount of sampling of other music they did then is not allowed now if I'm correct?

 

They can still do it, they just have to pay for sample clearances. So they generally don't. Also one of the reasons you see alot more live musicians playing on rap albums. Much cheaper then paying for a sample.

[Funkee1]

Y'know, I recognize that "8 mile" was fiction, but another reason Eminem made it was his subject matter. He was not afraid to poke fun at himself, just like the scene in the movie.

 

Other rappers were saying "Look at me I'm the greatest". And he was saying "I'm a mess! I'm crazy! I got problems! Kids, Stay away!!" Anyone who trells kids to stay away cause he's dangerous is bound to become one of their favorites!