Moderators ThudMaker Posted August 9, 2007 Moderators Share Posted August 9, 2007 do you guys REALLY care this much about baseball?Yes. We do. It beats the heck out of soccer and hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PrestiaRules Posted August 9, 2007 Members Share Posted August 9, 2007 Yes. We do. It beats the heck out of soccer and hockey. soccer yes, basketball yes but please god ....not hockey!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wilki29 Posted August 9, 2007 Members Share Posted August 9, 2007 Yes. We do. It beats the heck out of soccer and hockey. Agreed, except for when the world cup comes on. I love watching the US and South Korea. Unfortunatley the US is terrible, and South Korea isnt that great either, although Korea has gotten much better over the years. One of these days I hope to see an asian team take the cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted August 9, 2007 Members Share Posted August 9, 2007 The evidence doesn't support me? I never said that speed wasn't used in baseball, I would have been surprised if it wasn't. I don't take issue with its use, what I do take issue with is you classifying it as a performance enhancing drug on the same level as steroids. I've read that a cup of coffee before a race can be beneficial, I've never read that speed makes you better at fielding a grounder or hitting a baseball. Sure, maybe it keeps you a little amped for the game but I can't imagine that it does much else. Can you provide any evidence to support you words? You said greenies would make hitting more difficult. Considering there hasn't been a study on it, the only "evidence" that it not only doesn't make it more difficult, but actually makes it easier, is the fact that hitters have consistently used them for four decades (and their use has been recorded in multiple books and articles). And it was enough of a competitive issue that MLB and the MLBPA drafted a policy banning the substance. And, as I said, I've personally played with people who've used them to quicken reaction times. If you "can't imagine that it does much else", I guess you can't...I've read enough accounts, and watched enough people use them that I don't need to 'imagine'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted August 9, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 9, 2007 You said greenies would make hitting more difficult. Considering there hasn't been a study on it, the only "evidence" that it not only doesn't make it more difficult, but actually makes it easier, is the fact that hitters have consistently used them for four decades (and their use has been recorded in multiple books and articles). And it was enough of a competitive issue that MLB and the MLBPA drafted a policy banning the substance. And, as I said, I've personally played with people who've used them to quicken reaction times. If you "can't imagine that it does much else", I guess you can't...I've read enough accounts, and watched enough people use them that I don't need to 'imagine'. Uppers were my daily drug of choice for a lot of years, usually in the form of coke but crank got used a lot as did a miriad of other pills. And sure, it may quicken reaction time but precision is all blown to heck. And I don't think that it has anything to do with the competitive issue, they're illegal drugs. I'm pretty sure that they have something against heroin too but that doesn't make it a performance enhancing drug. Again, imagine yourself playing ping pong on coke. No way you're going to be better than if you're sober. Speed like caffeen in that, the longer you take it, the more your body gets used to the effects. So much so that, contrary to popular opinion, it becomes addictive. So, it's conceivable that speed freaks could go out there perform better than they would without it. I'd hate to have to stand in the outfield for 9 innings while I was going through meth withdrawals though. You body could also get so used to it that the effects are minimal. I'd have a real hard time believing that anyone could actually perform better on it than if they were totally clean though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbl Posted August 9, 2007 Members Share Posted August 9, 2007 ...uppers can make you turn in slightly better times when your doing endurance sports but that's about it as far as I can tell. Anything that requires extremely precise motor skills and patience, forget it. Do a few lines of coke and then play some ping pong, you'll see what I mean. So you're saying these greenies don't enhance the performance of our baseball players... or our fighter pilots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted August 9, 2007 Members Share Posted August 9, 2007 And I don't think that it has anything to do with the competitive issue, they're illegal drugs. I'm pretty sure that they have something against heroin too but that doesn't make it a performance enhancing drug. The only non-performance enhancers on MLB's test list are the drugs on Schedule II of the Code of Federal Regulations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zachoff Posted August 9, 2007 Members Share Posted August 9, 2007 Talking to my dad about this last night. He was at a Rockies game in '93 at Mile High... First year the Rockies were in baseball. Anyway, they were playing the Giants that night and my dad was sitting next to a scout for the KC Royals. Struck up a conversation & asked what he was doing scouting a National League game. The scout pointed at Bonds and said, "Because that is the best hitter in baseball" - That was '93. Before all of the steroid B.S. & before anyone really ever talked of him breaking the record. Steroids don't help you put a bat on a ball, but the will help the ball go a little farther when you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted August 9, 2007 Moderators Share Posted August 9, 2007 Steroids don't help you put a bat on a ball, but the will help the ball go a little farther when you do.You're statement betrays what you have tried to convey. If steroids help you make a ball go farther, then they most certainly help you put wood on the ball. The only way the ball flies farther is through increased bat speed. Where did that increased bat speed come from? The steroids. What else does increased bat speed do? It means the bat head is quicker through the strike zone, so the batter can wait a split second longer on choosing or not choosing to swing at the pitch. The enhanced pitch selection is a benefit of the increase in bat speed, thus helping the batter put the ball in play, and it is thanks to the steroids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zachoff Posted August 9, 2007 Members Share Posted August 9, 2007 You're statement betrays what you have tried to convey. If steroids help you make a ball go farther, then they most certainly help you put wood on the ball. The only way the ball flies farther is through increased bat speed. Where did that increased bat speed come from? The steroids. What else does increased bat speed do? It means the bat head is quicker through the strike zone, so the batter can wait a split second longer on choosing or not choosing to swing at the pitch. The enhanced pitch selection is a benefit of the increase in bat speed, thus helping the batter put the ball in play, and it is thanks to the steroids. Steroids enhance strength, not hand-eye coordination. The ability to put a bat on a ball has nothing to do with strength and everything to do with hand-eye coordination. I could do all the steroids in the world and I'd still not be able to hit a MLB pitcher. Swinging faster will only make the ball go farther in whatever direction it comes off the bat or make a louder "whoosh" sound as it misses the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbl Posted August 9, 2007 Members Share Posted August 9, 2007 Talking to my dad about this last night. He was at a Rockies game in '93 at Mile High... First year the Rockies were in baseball. Anyway, they were playing the Giants that night and my dad was sitting next to a scout for the KC Royals. Struck up a conversation & asked what he was doing scouting a National League game. The scout pointed at Bonds and said, "Because that is the best hitter in baseball" - That was '93. Before all of the steroid B.S. & before anyone really ever talked of him breaking the record.Steroids don't help you put a bat on a ball, but the will help the ball go a little farther when you do. Incorrect. Steriods WILL help you put the bat on the ball more often. It's a common misunderstanding that steriods have no benefit until the hitter connects. Hitting major league pitching ain't like hitting a stationary golf ball (and even golf requires muscle endurance - Casey Martin, anyone?) Muscle recovery, endurance and stamina are all significant factors in connecting with the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbl Posted August 9, 2007 Members Share Posted August 9, 2007 You're statement betrays what you have tried to convey. If steroids help you make a ball go farther, then they most certainly help you put wood on the ball. The only way the ball flies farther is through increased bat speed. Where did that increased bat speed come from? The steroids. What else does increased bat speed do? It means the bat head is quicker through the strike zone, so the batter can wait a split second longer on choosing or not choosing to swing at the pitch. The enhanced pitch selection is a benefit of the increase in bat speed, thus helping the batter put the ball in play, and it is thanks to the steroids. Thank you for explaining this more effectively than I did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted August 9, 2007 Moderators Share Posted August 9, 2007 Steroids enhance strength, not hand-eye coordination. The ability to put a bat on a ball has nothing to do with strength and everything to do with hand-eye coordination. I could do all the steroids in the world and I'd still not be able to hit a MLB pitcher. Swinging faster will only make the ball go farther in whatever direction it comes off the bat or make a louder "whoosh" sound as it misses the ball. Nothing I posted had anything to do with hand-eye coordination. It had to do with better pitch selection do to the increase in bat speed. Any hitter at the major league level already has the hand-eye coordination necessary to put the bat on the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zachoff Posted August 9, 2007 Members Share Posted August 9, 2007 Nothing I posted had anything to do with hand-eye coordination. It had to do with better pitch selection do to the increase in bat speed. That's fine, but my point is you can't teach hand-eye coordination. As I said... I could do all the steroids in the world and I'd still not be able to hit a Major League pitcher. Bonds obviously had this ability above and beyond that of any ordinary person, or MLB hitter for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbl Posted August 9, 2007 Members Share Posted August 9, 2007 Steroids enhance strength, not hand-eye coordination. The ability to put a bat on a ball has nothing to do with strength and everything to do with hand-eye coordination. I could do all the steroids in the world and I'd still not be able to hit a MLB pitcher. Swinging faster will only make the ball go farther in whatever direction it comes off the bat or make a louder "whoosh" sound as it misses the ball. Wrong. I swear, it seems some people believe that hitting MLB pitching over 162 games is tantamount to playing a video game for a couple of hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbl Posted August 9, 2007 Members Share Posted August 9, 2007 Bonds obviously had this ability above and beyond that of any ordinary person, or MLB hitter for that matter. Agreed. He's also one of the smartest hitters ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zachoff Posted August 9, 2007 Members Share Posted August 9, 2007 Wrong. I swear, it seems some people believe that hitting MLB pitching over 162 games is tantamount to playing a video game for a couple of hours. Dude, I wreck {censored} at MLB2006! Totally agree with that though. Hockey is the same way, if not worse. I play once a week in a non-checking league and I'm still sore after every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted August 9, 2007 Moderators Share Posted August 9, 2007 That's fine, but my point is you can't teach hand-eye coordination. As I said... I could do all the steroids in the world and I'd still not be able to hit a Major League pitcher.Bonds obviously had this ability above and beyond that of any ordinary person, or MLB hitter for that matter.Nobody is suggesting that just because someone takes steroids that they will make it to the pros, including yourself. You've yet to recognize that the benefits of increased bat speed through steroid use go beyond simply putting more balls over the fence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Funkee1 Posted August 9, 2007 Members Share Posted August 9, 2007 Who cares??? It's NFL Season now!!!!! :D:D:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Banta Posted August 9, 2007 Members Share Posted August 9, 2007 Congrats to Barry. Regardless of what drugs he did or didn't take, it is a remarkable achievement to hit that many HRs. And the record will be his until A-Rod breaks it in half a dozen years. Babe Ruth is still the greatest HR hitter of all time, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted August 10, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 Again, four decades of players taking them... Doesn't mean they improve performance. I'm guessing that they've been driving cars, getting laid and going out to strip joints for that long as well. Doesn't mean that any of those helps raise their batting average. You're an inquisitive person, get some speed and do a test on your own, you'll quickly get the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbl Posted August 10, 2007 Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 Doesn't mean they improve performance. I'm guessing that they've been driving cars, getting laid and going out to strip joints for that long as well. Doesn't mean that any of those helps raise their batting average. You're an inquisitive person, get some speed and do a test on your own, you'll quickly get the picture. So now you're suggesting that greenies hurt performance, but players take them in the locker room... to party? You base this on your personal experience. Maybe you weren't getting good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbl Posted August 10, 2007 Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 Babe Ruth is still the greatest HR hitter of all time, though. Bonds > Ruth! Ruth was backed by Lou Gerhig and the rest of Murderer's Row! Bonds was backed by... Andy Van Slyke, Matt Williams, and Ray Durham. Bonds has more HR's that Ruth! Bonds has faced better pitching than Ruth! Ruth is done, he's a has been, washed up! Bonds ain't done yet! There's NO WAY you can even suggest Ruth was a better HR than Bonds! The science is settled; the consensus is in! It's as certain as KK responding to this post with some meaningless statistics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted August 10, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 So now you're suggesting that (1) greenies hurt performance, but players take them in the locker room... to party? You base this on your personal experience. Maybe you weren't getting good stuff. I only moved the best! I'm saying that if you take an average guy and have him play straight, then put him on speed, his performance will more than likely drop. Again, for endurance sports, a bit of some sort of stimulant can be beneficial -- that's pretty well documented. But for things requiring patience and extreme accuracy, I can't see the benefit. Take the ping pong test, it's pretty damning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted August 10, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 Bonds > Ruth! Ruth was backed by Lou Gerhig and the rest of Murderer's Row! Bonds was backed by... Andy Van Slyke, Matt Williams, and Ray Durham. Jeff Kent was the best protection that Bonds ever had. Sure, Kent's an idiot and all but the Bonds/Kent team was pretty darn lethal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.