Members Super_Donut_Man Posted August 8, 2007 Members Share Posted August 8, 2007 Well, I'd have to say that its Horse-{censored}, * all the way, steroids cheapen every sport. Guess some people feel the need to cheat.that being said 756 is a hell of alot of home runs, and despite the controversy, it takes skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted August 8, 2007 Moderators Share Posted August 8, 2007 I'll jump back in to defend my position. . . . .Well, since I've actually heard him point blank discuss that topic, he never felt that taking a day off sitting on the bench did him any good. If he was in a cold streak, he wanted to be batting so that he had the opportunity to work out of it. His managers didn't seem to have a problem with it. Your point is well taken and I understand it well, but people need to remember that Gehrig needed to be taken out and the manager wouldn't do it. He finally did it himself. Baseball people respect streaks. It's not necessarily about ego as much as respect for the person on the streak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted August 8, 2007 Moderators Share Posted August 8, 2007 I know, I'm just being an asshole. I'm nice in real life and I need some outlet to be judgmental and a pain in the ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Funkee1 Posted August 8, 2007 Members Share Posted August 8, 2007 No, because that doesn't enhance your ability to still be mid 40's and knock home runs out of the park. Just to see the ball. You can wear Rec-Specs or get contacts for that one... Also, Lasik side effects don't include enlargements of the head and feet, just a few years past your growth spurt... Are you trying to argue with me, or prove my point?If he had Lasik, he would have still had an edge over other players at his position, and if he didn't do "roids, he still would have been doing something else to get said edge. He got the hits by being a better hitter, whatever the reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted August 8, 2007 Moderators Share Posted August 8, 2007 I know, I'm just being an asshole. I'm nice in real life and I need some outlet to be judgmental and a pain in the ass. You? Never! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted August 8, 2007 Members Share Posted August 8, 2007 Are you trying to argue with me, or prove my point? If he had Lasik, he would have still had an edge over other players at his position, and if he didn't do "roids, he still would have been doing something else to get said edge. He got the hits by being a better hitter, whatever the reason. You asked if we would be having this conversation-I said no. Corrective vision tools have been around for quite some time. My beef is he took performance enhancing materials, in what he thought were "arthritis cream" and "flax seed oil"... It's pretty night and day from how I see it. And I never said he wasn't a great hitter. But so were Palmero, McGwire and Sosa, etc.. and they still get nailed to the roids crucifix daily. I haven't paid attention to baseball in years, so it's no biggie for me. I just hate it gets so much coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Funkee1 Posted August 8, 2007 Members Share Posted August 8, 2007 You asked if we would be having this conversation- I said no. I haven't paid attention to baseball in years, so it's no biggie for me. I just hate it gets so much coverage. Well, it takes all our minds off of Michael Vick's Dogs, and cheating NBA refs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted August 8, 2007 Members Share Posted August 8, 2007 Well, it takes all our minds off of Michael Vick's Dogs, and cheating NBA refs.True enough!Next game I go to, I hope I'm close enough to hear Cuban yell out "Hey Ref! How much do you want for Duncan's 6th foul??" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted August 8, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 8, 2007 Note, you're talking about two sport guys. The witnesses to Football steroid use put it much earlier than the "baseball witnesses". And there are a heck of a lot of two sport guys who go onto the pros. I played football for two years with Ken Caminiti at Leigh High School. He was two years ahead of me and, at that point, he was a much better football player than he was a baseball player. Kind of a funny story, I was a freshman and he was a junior and, for whatever reason, they had me and another guy playing varsity. In one of my first varsity practices, I burned a guy pretty badly and started showboating into the end zone. All of a sudden, I get lit up like there's no tomorrow, felt like I had been hit by a truck. Caminiti had run about 75 yards full out to my showboating 30 yards and absolutely nailed me on the sidelines. Don't think that I'd been hit that hard before or since and it took me quite a while to regain my senses. Guess it was my initiation, turns out they didn't like the idea of freshmen playing with them. I was much quieter after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted August 8, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 8, 2007 It's from His grand jury testimony. It's why he's under investigation for perjury. In no place does he ever say, "I knowingly took steroids.". I think that it's possible that you and I are trying to split different hairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted August 8, 2007 Moderators Share Posted August 8, 2007 In no place does he ever say, "I knowingly took steroids.". I think that it's possible that you and I are trying to split different hairs.He knowingly took substances that have since been shown to be steroids. He knowingly took them and they are steroids. These are the semantic battles that rage constantly in legal proceedings. It all depends on what your definition of "is" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted August 8, 2007 Moderators Share Posted August 8, 2007 But so were Palmero, . . .I would have never guessed Palmiero for a roid guy. He had such a pure swing. I'm not quite sure what he was thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted August 8, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 8, 2007 Shame on Emprov, too, for dragging Ripken's name into this thread. Ripken never has been accused of cheating, and no one ever will. You can look at his body as he went through the years and figure that one out. I'm not saying that he did or that he didn't, I'm just saying that you can't cross his name off of the list just because everyone thinks that he's such a good guy. We all thought Palmero was a good guy too. And the body thing? There are a lot of different types of juice. Never took them personally but I know a lot who have, competitive weight lifters to athletes to guys just wanting to get more ripped. Different steroids have different effects on the body and, the way that the training is carried out plays a huge role in the results that are achieved. That I've experienced, steroids have been around for quite a while and I think that it's odd that not a of people, (I'm definitely not the first), have brought the Ironman's name into the equation. Pappy Boyington said something like, "Show me a hero and I'll prove that he's a bum.". I don't think that the US wants to see that he's a bum, we want to keep on thinking that he's a nice guy. He may very well be everything that we think that he is but, just because we think that he's a good guy, it doesn't mean that he's been straight up his entire career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted August 8, 2007 Members Share Posted August 8, 2007 It all depends on what your definition of "is" is. Kinda like "includes", huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted August 8, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 8, 2007 He knowingly took substances that have since been shown to be steroids. He knowingly took them and they are steroids. These are the semantic battles that rage constantly in legal proceedings. It all depends on what your definition of "is" is. I'm totally with you. Again, I think that different hairs are being split. I'm not going to say that he hasn't used them, I'm just going to say that he's never specifically said that he knew that he was taking them at the time of use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted August 8, 2007 Members Share Posted August 8, 2007 I would have never guessed Palmiero for a roid guy. He had such a pure swing. I'm not quite sure what he was thinking.Agreed, sadly enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted August 8, 2007 Moderators Share Posted August 8, 2007 Kinda like "includes", huh? You aren't very bright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted August 8, 2007 Members Share Posted August 8, 2007 You aren't very bright.Figured you'd duck, but hey that's cool too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted August 8, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 8, 2007 I would have never guessed Palmiero for a roid guy. He had such a pure swing. I'm not quite sure what he was thinking. Yep. His swing is a thing of beauty, totally effortless. Ever paid attention to Ernie Els' golf swing? It's really purty, those two guys totally remind me of each other in that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted August 8, 2007 Members Share Posted August 8, 2007 Yep. His swing is a thing of beauty, totally effortless. Ever paid attention to Ernie Els' golf swing? It's really purty, those two guys totally remind me of each other in that way.I wonder because of the "Michael Vick racial conspiracy thing" how long it's before El Tigre gets the steroid allegations nod... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted August 8, 2007 Moderators Share Posted August 8, 2007 I'm not saying that he did or that he didn't, I'm just saying that you can't cross his name off of the list just because everyone thinks that he's such a good guy. We all thought Palmero was a good guy too. And the body thing? There are a lot of different types of juice. Never took them personally but I know a lot who have, competitive weight lifters to athletes to guys just wanting to get more ripped. Different steroids have different effects on the body and, the way that the training is carried out plays a huge role in the results that are achieved. That I've experienced, steroids have been around for quite a while and I think that it's odd that not a of people, (I'm definitely not the first), have brought the Ironman's name into the equation. Pappy Boyington said something like, "Show me a hero and I'll prove that he's a bum.". I don't think that the US wants to see that he's a bum, we want to keep on thinking that he's a nice guy. He may very well be everything that we think that he is but, just because we think that he's a good guy, it doesn't mean that he's been straight up his entire career.So you want to include Mark Grace in there, too? Your making an accusation that is more than likely completely false. Unless you happen to have some type of evidence that would indicate why the decline at the end of his career that was standard issue to anyone else that age, I'm not quite sure why you're attempting to soil his name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassesofalessergod Posted August 8, 2007 Members Share Posted August 8, 2007 Cal Ripken was a steroid freak and a wife beater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted August 8, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 8, 2007 So you want to include Mark Grace in there, too? Your making an accusation that is more than likely completely false. Unless you happen to have some type of evidence that would indicate why the decline at the end of his career that was standard issue to anyone else that age, I'm not quite sure why you're attempting to soil his name. I'm not attempting to soil his name. I'm just saying that, in the age of all of these major sports accomplishments, we should be viewing everything under the same lense. And again, I'm not the first guy to bring this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted August 8, 2007 Moderators Share Posted August 8, 2007 Cal Ripken was a steroid freak and a wife beater.Yay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wordsmith4u Posted August 8, 2007 Members Share Posted August 8, 2007 No Giants fan here (huge Cubs fan), but I think it's a little ridiculous. Take anything you want--anything--then climb in a batting cage and start taking swings at a 90 mph fastball. A fastball that you know is going to go in the same direction, and in the same place everytime. See how many you hit, let alone drive. Now, mix in curves, change-ups, knuckleballs, forkballs, sliders, wild pitches, etc. and see how many hits you get. Steroids do NOT make you hit the ball. Nor do they make you hit it farther. They may allow you to heal faster from an injury, or sustain more momentum over the long term, but you still have to have the talent to get around on a pitch from a major league pitcher. And Barry has done that better than anyone else, at least in the home run department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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