Is This Offensive?

[Brother Mango]

Last night at band practice we were working on a medley of When Doves Cry, Umbrella and Bitches ain't {censored}. After we finished the last song, my singer/guitarist goes into a punk version of Damn it Feels Good to be a Gangsta. We go through a little bit of it and my drummer drops the veto on it citing the excessive use of the word "nigga". He didn't feel that a group of white dudes should do a song like that. Then there was discussion of substituting "nigga" with "cracka", which I promptly vetoed as I think that's even more insulting. My singer and I completely disagree with him, but we are honoring his point of view even though I think he is offended because he knows that he should be. And yes, I pointed out that Bitches Ain't {censored} is far more offensive lyrically. Am I wrong here?

 

 

 

 

My advice is to just stay away from it. Maybe there's a clever way to pull it off, but I can't think of it.

 

I saw a video of a British white guy in a suit doing a cover of Pusherman. And he sang it the way Curtis Mayfield wrote it:

 

I'm yo' mamma

I'm yo' daddy

I'm that nigga in the alley ...

 

It was one of the silliest things I've ever encountered. I wasn't offended. Not in the least bit.

 

The guy obviously loved & respected the song, but it seemed so silly. And I agree with you that if the word was subsituted, it would only draw more attention to itself and suggest the guy's a big sissy.

[Crescent Seven]

I'm waitin' for C7 to clarify....what's up, my filth...?

[dravenzouk]

It will give us time to work on our speed metal version of Freebird.

 

Oh god, I want to hear that! Please make a recording and post it. Hey, how about a speed metal medley of Freebird, Mustang Sally, and Brown Eyed Girl?

[burdizzos]

No matter what I think or how enlightened I believe I am , it is always the audience that matters.

 

I like to think that I have a pretty good idea of what will fly and what will not, but when I hit the gray areas, it's good to have this forum to save me a potential beat down.

 

While I could make it through one of those three songs at speed, I'd probably impale myself on my bass if I had to play all three regardless of the spin.

[hawkhuff]

Again, what does that really accomplish? By doing that, we are saying that we are too chicken{censored} to drop the N-bomb despite the fact that it is a well known song that is chocked full of it.

 

 

I thought the bad one was 'nigger' and that 'nigga' was the correct non-offensive term? One is a racial slur the other a term of endearment.

 

Besides, isn't this the decision of the lead singer and what he feels it should be? After all isn't he the one doing the singing? Do bandmembers veto your basslines? Or veto the lead riffs?

 

Just asking.

[burdizzos]

No one vetoes my bass lines, ever.

 

I don't veto lead riffs, but I do drop lots of WTFs.

 

 

I don't think it's possible to separate the lead singer from the band in this instance. If a guy says something on stage, then he is speaking on behalf of the band unless otherwise stated.

[ThudMaker]

I don't think it's possible to separate the lead singer from the band in this instance. If a guy says something on stage, then he is speaking on behalf of the band unless otherwise stated.

Yep. All band members represent each other when they are on a public stage.

[hawkhuff]

No one vetoes my bass lines, ever. I don't veto lead riffs, but I do drop lots of WTFs. I don't think it's possible to separate the lead singer from the band in this instance. If a guy says something on stage, then he is speaking on behalf of the band unless otherwise stated.

I agree but my point was it is what the LS is most comfortable singing and, like you said, the kind of crowd you're playing to. I have played with LS who would frequently alter/insert words, it was part of the style. I think it would have been tough to change that.

 

This, to me, seems like PC run amok but then I haven't played out in a while. Must be there are more sensitivities among the crowds.

[hawkhuff]

Take the attention away by wearing T shirts.

:poke:

[burdizzos]

We change words to songs all of the time to make them funnier or to personalize them.

 

The trouble with Gangsta is that the word "nigga" is used exactly 20 times. It would be like changing Friends in Low Places to Friends with No Faces.

 

Is is PC to a point, but when I'm selling a product that no one needs, I need to be very thoughtful with regard to my customers' comfort levels.

[Kindness]

Is is PC to a point, but when I'm selling a product that no one needs, I need to be very thoughtful with regard to my customers' comfort levels.

 

 

This is a good call. I know you (I guess?) and wouldn't be offended, but if it was just some jerk on stage singing this I might be. It is sometimes hard to understand the context of the performance and you already have a strong enough product to give the audience that you don't need the extra attention.

[hawkhuff]

This is a good call. I know you (I guess?) and wouldn't be offended, but if it was just some jerk on stage singing this I might be. It is sometimes hard to understand the context of the performance and you already have a strong enough product to give the audience that you don't need the extra attention.

 

 

Point taken.

 

Seems to me though that there is something in most songs to offend almost anyone if they were listening closely enough. Where does this stop?

 

Am I way off point here?

[burdizzos]

 

This is a good call. I know you (I guess?) and wouldn't be offended, but if it was just some jerk on stage singing this I might be. It is sometimes hard to understand the context of the performance and you already have a strong enough product to give the audience that you don't need the extra attention.

 

 

Truth. We do not have enough of a following or reputation for me to say with certainty that most people in every room we play will get it.

 

Although, it we positioned the song after our Spice Girls cover, they'd be hard pressed to say otherwise.

[Kindness]

Point taken. Seems to me though that there is something in most songs to offend almost anyone if they were listening closely enough. Where does this stop? Am I way off point here?

 

 

You're not way off point. I think the word nigger/nigga is an exceptional case. I can't think of another word in song that would make me think twice. I personally think it stops there.

[Kindness]

Truth. We do not have enough of a following or reputation for me to say with certainty that most people in every room we play will get it. Although, it we positioned the song after our Spice Girls cover, they'd be hard pressed to say otherwise.

 

 

Given that kind of context you have a 99% chance of having it come off as intended. What is the benefit of inciting a problem if there is one of those 1% type people and they want to make an issue of it. What if the 1% person happens to be the bar owner?

[burdizzos]

 

You're not way off point. I think the word nigger/nigga is an exceptional case. I can't think of another word in song that would make me think twice. I personally think it stops there.

 

 

There is no hotter word in the American language at this point.

 

Given that Ben Folds and Dynamite Hack have sort of paved the way, I think most people would get it, but I'm sure there are still plenty people who have never heard their renditions of popular rap songs.

[burdizzos]

Given that kind of context you have a 99% chance of having it come off as intended. What is the benefit of inciting a problem if there is one of those 1% type people and they want to make an issue of it. What if the 1% person happens to be the bar owner?

 

Then that bar owner can suck my dick!

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, I totally understand the cost/benefit analysis and I am all about finding my boundaries in the safest possible manner.

[hawkhuff]

Prolly the easiest way to deal with this then is don't play them. Problem solved. At least for the band.

I mean, why fight or have conflict over something so utterly inane? I'm not familiar with the tunes but you could substitute something just as effective, couldn't you?

[chris-dax]

ooops - sorry, dude. Something like about a year ago you were posting in a thread....some other poster took great exception to your opinion, and decided the only response was to call you filth...

It totally cracked me up....

Something about this thread reminded me of that.... that's the filth part...

the clarify part is I was just waiting for you to weigh in...or tee off....

So what better time than right now....should they do the n songs or not...?

[bassred]

I thought the bad one was 'nigger' and that 'nigga' was the correct non-offensive term? One is a racial slur the other a term of endearment. .......... Just asking.

 

 

That's a load of BS right there. that's another way that the ignorant masses who call each other the N word, the very word that is supposed to be their Hot Button word, to try to justify their own dulling down of the context of the word. whether it is finished with 'ER' or 'A' doesn't change a damn thing. If I said either one to a black guy I'm sure it would be a pretty easy call when guessing what his next move would be......

[hawkhuff]

That's a load of BS right there. that's another way that the ignorant masses who call each other the N word, the very word that is supposed to be their Hot Button word, to try to justify their own dulling down of the context of the word. whether it is finished with 'ER' or 'A' doesn't change a damn thing. If I said either one to a black guy I'm sure it would be a pretty easy call when guessing what his next move would be......

 

 

Probably depends on who where and why. At least from those that I know.

 

Your answer is not all true all the time.

[Brother Mango]

Given that kind of context you have a 99% chance of having it come off as intended. What is the benefit of inciting a problem if there is one of those 1% type people and they want to make an issue of it. What if the 1% person happens to be the bar owner?

Some people shut down and take a zero-tolerance with this kind of stuff--ignoring the context. And is it worth taking the risk--as Kindness suggests--to rattle some person or people when they themselves might not feel disturbed but feel they have some sort of social obligation to at least disturbed?

Just look at the controversy created on this forum regarding this word, and strong beliefs that not even Snoop, R. Kelly, etc., should use the word.

[Brother Mango]

That's a load of BS right there. that's another way that the ignorant masses who call each other the N word, the very word that is supposed to be their Hot Button word, to try to justify their own dulling down of the context of the word. whether it is finished with 'ER' or 'A' doesn't change a damn thing. If I said either one to a black guy I'm sure it would be a pretty easy call when guessing what his next move would be......

 

 

I agree with Hawkhuff that this is not a load of BS. And it's not about ignorant masses.

 

A parallel is the time a friend was joking about his father-in-law's pot belly. I joined in and made a joke. The 2nd joke got me a dirty look and it was clear that I'd gone far too far and needed to back up.

 

There are insiders and there are outsiders; and there are contexts to interpret.

[BEAD]

My guitarist wants to do a song where he shoves his headstock up his ass and then orders all of the jews in attendance (which would probably just be my drummer's wife) to leave.

You guys think that would be mis-construed by anyone in the audience?

[Kindness]

I agree with Hawkhuff that this is not a load of BS. And it's not about ignorant masses. A parallel is the time a friend was joking about his father-in-law's pot belly. I joined in and made a joke. The 2nd joke got me a dirty look and it was clear that I'd gone far too far and needed to back up. There are insiders and there are outsiders; and there are contexts to interpret.

 

 

I think bassred was saying the "distinction" between nigger and nigga is BS and was further saying that it is just an excuse for ignorant people to keep using the term.

 

I agree with him. As an outsider, my use of the term nigga on the streets at 79th and Stoney Island might not go over very well, even though some of the guys I might offend would in other circumstances tell you that nigga is a friendly term, not at all like the word nigger.