Members Brother Mango Posted September 15, 2007 Members Share Posted September 15, 2007 I think bassred was saying the "distinction" between nigger and nigga is BS and was further saying that it is just an excuse for ignorant people to keep using the term.I agree with him. As an outsider, my use of the term nigga on the streets at 79th and Stoney Island might not go over very well, even though some of the guys I might offend would in other circumstances tell you that nigga is a friendly term, not at all like the word nigger. I don't catch the distinction that you're making. Are you saying that if we were to ask someone at 79th & Stoney to explain their use to us, they'd present the load of BS that bassred says is just an excuse to keep using the term? I don't follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted September 15, 2007 Members Share Posted September 15, 2007 I don't catch the distinction that you're making. Are you saying that if we were to ask someone at 79th & Stoney to explain their use to us, they'd present the load of BS that bassred says is just an excuse to keep using the term?I don't follow. The distinction is not "Nigga = good" and "Nigger = Bad", the distinction is a matter of context (not some simplistic construction regarding pronunciation, despite what some employers of the term might suggest). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted September 15, 2007 Moderators Share Posted September 15, 2007 I don't catch the distinction that you're making. Are you saying that if we were to ask someone at 79th & Stoney to explain their use to us, they'd present the load of BS that bassred says is just an excuse to keep using the term?I don't follow. I've heard the distinction made, for example hip hop artists defending their use of the term in their songs, saying that nigga is not an offensive term. I think that is total crap. The distinction is not between the words nigger/nigga, it is between being in the in-crowd and the out-crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brother Mango Posted September 15, 2007 Members Share Posted September 15, 2007 The distinction is not "Nigga = good" and "Nigger = Bad", the distinction is a matter of context (not some simplistic construction regarding pronunciation, despite what some employers of the term might suggest). I do understand that point. However, I don't think it's always a good move to ask someone to explain or justify something because they do or use something regularly. A strategy used by the anti-porn movement in the 90s: Pit an anti-porn expert against a plain' ol' consumer of porn, and guess one looked like a goof? But again, I'm not sure if I'm fully grasping the point. If the point is that the ignorant masses offer BS to mask a lame excuse ... that's not a surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted September 15, 2007 Members Share Posted September 15, 2007 I do understand that point. However, I don't think it's always a good move to ask someone to explain or justify something because they do or use something regularly. People aren't asking...It's an active claim put forth by those who use the terms. If some says "No, it's okay because it ends in '-a' instead of '-er'..." that claim is open for examination (and even the most cursory analysis reveals significant shortcomings)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brother Mango Posted September 15, 2007 Members Share Posted September 15, 2007 I've heard the distinction made, for example hip hop artists defending their use of the term in their songs, saying that nigga is not an offensive term. I think that is total crap. The distinction is not between the words nigger/nigga, it is between being in the in-crowd and the out-crowd. Ok. I see a little better. But as I just responded, it seems that some of them should be the last ones to offer an explanation. They are experts at beats and words. They aren't social anthropologists. Asking them to explain the word would be like asking them to explain tanning leather ... they've been wearing leather shoes & belts for decades ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BEAD Posted September 15, 2007 Members Share Posted September 15, 2007 I've heard the distinction made, for example hip hop artists defending their use of the term in their songs, saying that nigga is not an offensive term. I think that is total crap. The distinction is not between the words nigger/nigga, it is between being in the in-crowd and the out-crowd. Sure it's an in-crowd/out-crowd thing. Context matters, and this is one of those times where white guys end up in the out crowd. It's tragic. As far as the side discussion on nigga/nigger, I think they're really different words at this point. I don't care if they're phonetically similar, and have an identical linguistic history. Different words, different meanings. Language can be subtle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brother Mango Posted September 15, 2007 Members Share Posted September 15, 2007 People aren't asking...It's an active claim put forth by those who use the terms.If some says "No, it's okay because it ends in '-a' instead of '-er'..." that claim is open for examination (and even the most cursory analysis reveals significant shortcomings)... But don't you think it's in response to the public hullaballoo and a need to hold onto something that they really can't explain? Even though it's a silly defense? I don't think it's necessarily a load of BS trying to hide an excuse that the person knows is lame. It's possibly somene grasping at straws in an effort to not be passive--and how many "experts" are coming forward to help explain this? Just like with porn. No experts came out and said porn wasn't harmful. Instead there were First Amendment lawyers who insisted that they believe porn is despicable, but there's still a Free Speech issue. (They ALWAYS distanced themselves from their clients.) And there were the handful of regular folk who were saying the dumbest things in their own defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted September 15, 2007 Members Share Posted September 15, 2007 As far as the side discussion on nigga/nigger, I think they're really different words at this point. I don't care if they're phonetically similar, and have an identical linguistic history. Different words, different meanings. Language can be subtle.So, in Training Day, when Denzel Washington calls Ethan Hawke "My Nigger", is he mispronouncing "Nigga", or is his misusing "Nigger"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BEAD Posted September 15, 2007 Members Share Posted September 15, 2007 So, in Training Day, when Denzel Washington calls Ethan Hawke "My Nigger", is he mispronouncing "Nigga", or is his misusing "Nigger"... I missed that movie, sorry. Maybe he's misusing "nigger" for dramatic effect? Maybe the person who wrote the script goes to the same book club as you? One of my professors told us there was a difference, and she must be right since she's black. You figure she's imagining a difference in context and meaning between two pronounciations of the same word? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted September 15, 2007 Members Share Posted September 15, 2007 I missed that movie, sorry. Maybe he's misusing "nigger" for dramatic effect? Maybe the person who wrote the script goes to the same book club as you? Or maybe the idea that the words are entirely different things is complete bollocks? And you really should see Training Day. Really well made, Denzel makes a great villain (he's obviously good in pretty much everything)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BEAD Posted September 15, 2007 Members Share Posted September 15, 2007 Or maybe the idea that the words are entirely different things is complete bollocks? I'm surprised you have this opinion.It's funny when something seems realy obvious to you and then you can't find a good way of explaining your thought process to someone else.I guess I figure most synonyms and slang terms and alternate pronunciations have different connotations and contextual implications. "ass" "arse" and "butt" all mean the same thing, but I figure they carry different connotations that create subtle differences in their meaning, the etiquitte surrounding their usage and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted September 15, 2007 Members Share Posted September 15, 2007 I'm surprised you have this opinion.It's funny when something seems realy obvious to you and then you can't find a good way of explaining your thought process to someone else.I guess I figure most synonyms and slang terms and alternate pronunciations have different connotations and contextual implications. "ass" "arse" and "butt" all mean the same thing, but I figure they carry different connotations that create subtle differences in their meaning, the etiquitte surrounding their usage and so on. But it's not the pronunciation that holds the difference, as kindness pointed out. If "Nigga" were truly a different word than "Nigger", then I should be able to go down to my friend's place in Inglewood and call someone a "nigga" and they should consider it a positive... Except it's not. However, a black person calling a friend "my nigga" or "my nigger" will be interpreted the same way. The difference in meaning is not conveyed by pronunciation, it's conveyed by context... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crescent Seven Posted September 15, 2007 Members Share Posted September 15, 2007 But it's not the pronunciation that holds the difference, as kindness pointed out. If "Nigga" were truly a different word than "Nigger", then I should be able to go down to my friend's place in Inglewood and call someone a "nigga" and they should consider it a positive... Except it's not. However, a black person calling a friend "my nigga" or "my nigger" will be interpreted the same way. The difference in meaning is not conveyed by pronunciation, it's conveyed by context... My nephew!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted September 15, 2007 Moderators Share Posted September 15, 2007 My nephew!! {censored} son! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted September 15, 2007 Moderators Share Posted September 15, 2007 The difference in meaning is not conveyed by pronunciation, it's conveyed by context... Exactly. Which is why the song in question might be offensive. It is not possible to ensure all of the audience will understand the context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crescent Seven Posted September 15, 2007 Members Share Posted September 15, 2007 {censored} son! Aw yeah, boy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xdamagexx Posted September 15, 2007 Members Share Posted September 15, 2007 buy an Air horn and blow it toward your drummer everytime the N word comes up.. that should solve that... i bet after a couple airhorn blows he might think the original words are betta... Most wouldn't find it offensive but their is the few that would.. and i bet they love the original song, just not from whites... WORD... hehehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brother Mango Posted September 15, 2007 Members Share Posted September 15, 2007 Here's a better song for Burdizzos' band. Break us off a lil' Redbone!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xLi39E9PbA Love & seduction. Flip the script! Ix-nay the igga-nay uss-fay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted September 15, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 15, 2007 We've decided to do this song instead. With my singer in blackface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jonathan_matos5 Posted September 15, 2007 Members Share Posted September 15, 2007 this is somewhat offensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brother Mango Posted September 15, 2007 Members Share Posted September 15, 2007 We've decided to do this song instead. With my singer in blackface. I can dig it!But Redbone's Come & Get Your Love has your name written all over it. Just skip the part at the end. We saw what happend to Illinois w/ Chief Illiniwek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BEAD Posted September 15, 2007 Members Share Posted September 15, 2007 If "Nigga" were truly a different word than "Nigger", then I should be able to go down to my friend's place in Inglewood and call someone a "nigga" and they should consider it a positive... The difference in meaning is not conveyed by pronunciation, it's conveyed by context... I think you're making an assumption here, that if nigga was not the same word as nigger then nigga would be completely inoffensive regardless of context. I don't think nigga has to meet that criteria in order to have a different meaning in one subtle way or another. ...even if you still can't say it to sccary black men in Inglewood. I mean, negro isn't the same word as nigger, but I wouldn't walk around Inglewood yelling "Hey negro!"I'm suggesting that they have different meanings, (of course, meaning itself is sort of tough to pin down since so many things contribute to the meaning of a word... but I digress) and they are also both words heavily influenced by the context of who is speaking, who they are speaking to, the relationship of the people speaking, and so on.Since there are people who treat them as different words with different meanings, I think this is one of those cases where language is messy and tough to understand using absolutes.:poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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