Members Emprov Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 Well, IMO, we already have too many cards with no balances sitting around... I would prefer to close some of them... Just know that your FICO score will take a hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catphish Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 Well, IMO, we already have too many cards with no balances sitting around... I would prefer to close some of them... That's your choice, and if you already have good credit that it's not that big of a deal. Lots of people who have poor credit make the mistake of thinking canceling their cards will help when it actually hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thumper Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 It's easy to blame homeowners for getting in over their heads, but what's irresponsible about buying something you've been told you can afford and then having multiple rugs pulled out from under you in the form af job losses or pay cuts, and property devaluation? In many cases, the easiest thing for the owner to do is walk away let the bank take it, which in turn leads to further devaluation. This is an effort to break that cycle. These guys in Washington are dealing with macro issues, and trying deparately to save the rest of our asses. Give 'em a chance. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goofball Jones Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 Okay "Bobby", enlighten me on as to what you would have done then given that situation? Would you have just ignored your wife and family? Let's say you and your wife are at odds with something, are you "the man" and make the decision the way you want, or do you ever compromise? Would you alienate your family, your wife, your in-laws just to be "right"? If anyone is childish, it would be you and your "no one tells me what to do" attitude. Also, in case you're under the impression that we can't make our mortgage payments, we can and do. I said it get's tough sometimes, but we always make them on time. Now, if we both lost our jobs, that would be something different. What would you do if you and your wife both lost your jobs? Do you have enough in savings to live on and make your payments? For how long? You could afford your house. You were living within your means...but no one, not even you, could foresee a lay-off and extended unemployment. Who's to blame then when they foreclose on your house? Are you absolutely certain you will never be foreclosed on? Who would you rely on? Or would you just walk away? What if, God forbid, you got sick and couldn't work anymore and had to take disability? You know disability doesn't pay the same amount as what your salary was....can you still make those payments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jugghaid Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 Never said it was immoral. It's a bad business decision. That's the credit card issuer's problem. It's defninitely not mine. Generally, they don't do that if you are maxed and only making the minimum payments though. That is something I almost never see. What I do see however, is credit card ping-pong. Did it myself for a few years. After getting amrried and some other large expenses after buying the hose, I ran up about $30k in credit card debt total on about 5 or 6 cards. None were over 50% of the available balance though. Called a few of the credit card companies when they sent me 0% for 6 months or 0% for a year offers. Told them I wanted to transfer my balances from other cards on to their card. Of course they want the business and I had a perfect payment history across the board so they increased my limit to accomodate this. Eventually got the whole $30k or so onto one card, and had about 6 or 7 other cards with $20k+ limits and nothing on them. Paying 0% interest on the card where all the debt was. About a month proior to the 0% offer expiring, I started shopping my other cards. They also sent me 0% for 6 months offers. So I would pay down the balances and befroe the 0% ended I would transfer the balance to ANOTHER 0% card. Ended up paying all of the debt off in a little over 2 years and never paid a dime of interest. They can use you, but you can use them as well if YOU know how to work THEIR system. I could also easliy have run up about $200k in credit card debt, converted the purchased merchandise into cash, put it in my safe, then filed bankruptcy. I know people who have done that. I didn't because A. It's dishonest and B. I made too much money to file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members toolbar Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 Incorrect my good man.I can lien a property on a credit card bill after taking judgment. Based on the situation and if it's worth the paperwork (mostly based on the equity position) I can also force a forclosure on the property (it's long and complicated, but I have done so).Additionally, I can garnishee wages at the rate of 25% in most states and can also levy bank accounts.The whole point of filing suit and taking a judgment on an unsecured debt is to have legal recourse to collect that money on an involuntary basis.That (in most states) includes being able to attach assets. Wages, real property, bank accounts, and even personal property if I decide to take it that far (sherriffs sale). Much more difficult in Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jugghaid Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 Okay "Bobby", enlighten me on as to what you would have done then given that situation? Would you have just ignored your wife and family? Let's say you and your wife are at odds with something, are you "the man" and make the decision the way you want, or do you ever compromise? Would you alienate your family, your wife, your in-laws just to be "right"? If anyone is childish, it would be you and your "no one tells me what to do" attitude. Also, in case you're under the impression that we can't make our mortgage payments, we can and do. I said it get's tough sometimes, but we always make them on time. Now, if we both lost our jobs, that would be something different. What would you do if you and your wife both lost your jobs? Do you have enough in savings to live on and make your payments? For how long? You could afford your house. You were living within your means...but no one, not even you, could foresee a lay-off and extended unemployment. Who's to blame then when they foreclose on your house? Are you absolutely certain you will never be foreclosed on? Who would you rely on? Or would you just walk away? What if, God forbid, you got sick and couldn't work anymore and had to take disability? You know disability doesn't pay the same amount as what your salary was....can you still make those payments? Actually, I kind of agree with him Goofy. Sorry, but I'm not making one of the biggest financial decisions and investments of my life based on what my in-laws want me to do. No way in hell. Now if my wife really wanted to buy a house and I wasn't sure, yes I would compromise. I would tell her that we will start looking when we have 30% saved as a down payment. that way if the worst case scenario ever did happen, we could sell the home and get some cash out of it as opposed to just losing it. When I bought my house, in addition to the down payment, I also had 6 months worth of mortgage payments and living expenses in the bank in savings to buy me some time if something happened as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jugghaid Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 Much more difficult in Texas. Absolutely. Texas, Florida and the Carolinas are the most difficult places to collect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted March 6, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 Absolutely. Texas, Florida and the Carolinas are the most difficult places to collect. YEEEHAW! My problem with this is more than just housing. One of the most basic principles of our law is the written contract. Anything the government does to further erode that is troublesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted March 6, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 6, 2009 Generally, they don't do that if you are maxed and only making the minimum payments though. That is something I almost never see....... to the last part of your post. Good stuff. You almost never see it, but it does happen occasionally. I guess I also consider the folks with maxed credit cards to also be those who max the cards, pay some of the balance (more than minimum), and then max them again, over and over, without ever paying the full balance. Yeah. It's a game, but again I don't feel sorry for the card companies at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NitroBobby Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 Okay "Bobby", enlighten me on as to what you would have done then given that situation? Would you have just ignored your wife and family? Let's say you and your wife are at odds with something, are you "the man" and make the decision the way you want, or do you ever compromise? Would you alienate your family, your wife, your in-laws just to be "right"? If anyone is childish, it would be you and your "no one tells me what to do" attitude. Also, in case you're under the impression that we can't make our mortgage payments, we can and do. I said it get's tough sometimes, but we always make them on time. Now, if we both lost our jobs, that would be something different. What would you do if you and your wife both lost your jobs? Do you have enough in savings to live on and make your payments? For how long? i understand compromise, i'm married. my wife and i are both pretty level headed, intelligent people. (please don't take that as insinuating that you or your wife aren't.) but when we were looking to buy a home, it was only us discussing it. our parents, friends, lending institutions etc. had no input into our decision. the fact that you are letting others influence a decision that is only yours and your wife's to make is where you went wrong. they aren't the ones making the payments. they aren't the ones accruing the debt. if you know that you can't afford something how are you going to let someone else convince you to do it? you're worried about alienating the wife and her family by not agreeing to buy the house, but apparently not concerned about the repercussions down the road when the whole thing blows up. that's when the emotions will really show up. when you're sitting in a pile of debt thinking 'i never wanted this house in the first place'. then you'll really alienate the in-laws. as far as both of us losing our jobs? you really can't plan for that. we save as much as we can. but that's life. you control what you can and make all of the necessary sacrifices to try to put yourself in a good, secure place. and i did just get laid off. but that went into our planning too. we knew that even if one of us got laid off we'd be able to get by on one salary plus savings for a while. we discussed it. we planned as best we could. we'd been saving for 2 years before we bought the house. we didn't go buy a $400,000 home because we knew that we wouldn't be able to afford it if one of us lost our job. we set a reasonable price range and shopped around until we found a place that met our requirements. if she loses her job tomorrow? well, that's a whole new game and one that we'll face together if it comes down to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jugghaid Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 to the last part of your post. Good stuff. You almost never see it, but it does happen. I guess I also consider the folks with maxed credit cards to also be those who max the cards, pay some of the balance (more than minimum), and then max them again, over and over, without ever paying the full balance. Yeah. It's a game, but again I don't feel sorry for the card companies at all. True, I can't say i NEVER see it. And credit card companies do make incredibly stupid decisions. Sometimes at the behest of the government. About 10-15 years ago there was a glut of unsecured credit card debt being issued to students from the middle east. Over here on student visas. They knew how to work the credit game and by the time they were done with school, they had racked up $200k+ in credit card debt and went home, never paying it off. The credit card companies tried to initiate a policy of "citizen only" credit cards and were told that would be discriminatory and they would be in a world of {censored} by the government. That ended right about the time 9/11 happened and the government realized that it was funded in exactly this fashion. Largest terrorist attack in american history, paid for by Citibank, Chase, Discover, and Household bank. True story. I even had the secret service in my office on several occasions looking over some accounts that were used for the attacks specifically. I was working for one of the largest debt purchasers in the country at the time as their VP of litigation and we had probably a half dozen accounts at least where the records were siezed by the feds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goofball Jones Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 Actually, I kind of agree with him Goofy. Sorry, but I'm not making one of the biggest financial decisions and investments of my life based on what my in-laws want me to do. No way in hell. Now if my wife really wanted to buy a house and I wasn't sure, yes I would compromise. I would tell her that we will start looking when we have 30% saved as a down payment. that way if the worst case scenario ever did happen, we could sell the home and get some cash out of it as opposed to just losing it. When I bought my house, in addition to the down payment, I also had 6 months worth of mortgage payments and living expenses in the bank in savings to buy me some time if something happened as well. And we did. We actually had 40% down payment. Still doesn't mean I wanted the damn thing. As far as selling the house if worse came to worse...we could probably wait for a long long time before we had a buyer. But we may luck out, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bnyswonger Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 My income last year was 40% of what it was 3 years ago. How the {censored} do you plan for that? I'm hanging on by my fingernails. There are many, many people in similar circumstances. You guys can grouse about bailouts all you want, but unless there's tidal change there won't be anyone unaffected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hawkhuff Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090306/pl_nm/us_mortgage_bankruptcy_house Ho Ly {censored}. Not a surprise. It's just another of Blobamas plan of wealth re-distribution. Has anyone else received a call from their banks? I got one yesterday and a loan officer is telling me that they will re-fin my home at a much lower rate, consolidate with my equity loan and the Blobomites are paying for all the closing costs of the re-fi! WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goofball Jones Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 My income last year was 40% of what it was 3 years ago. How the {censored} do you plan for that? I'm hanging on by my fingernails. There are many, many people in similar circumstances. You guys can grouse about bailouts all you want, but unless there's tidal change there won't be anyone unaffected. Sure, someone gets into a mortgage that they can't afford or they weren't living within their means. It's easy to say "I don't want my tax dollars paying for that". Okay, I agree with that. But what if they're in your situation. 3 years ago you could totally afford your house and put some money into savings. Everything was looking good. All of a sudden, the place you work for downsizes or goes out of business. No problem, you get another job. But wait, everyone else that worked there is also looking for a job too. No problem, you're a go-getter. You're a hard worker and you have connections. Okay, that's all good. But wait, more businesses are also downsizing and many aren't hiring. Your savings are dwindling. You had 6 months saved up but that's going fast and you still can't get a job and more and more people are entering the unemployment lines also looking for a job. Okay, you look like you're going to lose your house. Either you get someone to help you out, like family, or you try to sell...in a market that no one is buying in and is saturated with other people trying to sell sell sell. Times are getting desperate. What to do...you're out of money now....you missed a mortgage payment, but you're still on so-so terms with your bank. A few more months go by and you find yourself having to move into an apartment or with family to kind of weather the storm. You lose your house. Sad story to be sure. No way you could foresee this and it just happens. Now, take this scenario that I just laid out and multiply it by a million. 2 million. 10 million. What then? That's what scares me...no amount of bail-out money could ever even put a dent into something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hawkhuff Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 My income last year was 40% of what it was 3 years ago. How the {censored} do you plan for that? I'm hanging on by my fingernails. There are many, many people in similar circumstances. You guys can grouse about bailouts all you want, but unless there's tidal change there won't be anyone unaffected. By not living way beyond your means is how you plan for that. The bailouts are a very very bad idea. Why? There are always some big big strings attached to 'free' government money. You can bet your ass on that so careful what you wish for. I think most people just refuse to admit they need to live within their means. We did for a while then we made the tough decision to liquidate 60K worth of an IRA to get out of the hole. In retrospect it was a good move because I took the money out when the market was at 14,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members poomwah Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 VERY WELL spoken It's easy to blame homeowners for getting in over their heads, but what's irresponsible about buying something you've been told you can afford and then having multiple rugs pulled out from under you in the form af job losses or pay cuts, and property devaluation? In many cases, the easiest thing for the owner to do is walk away let the bank take it, which in turn leads to further devaluation. This is an effort to break that cycle. These guys in Washington are dealing with macro issues, and trying deparately to save the rest of our asses. Give 'em a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 Sure, someone gets into a mortgage that they can't afford or they weren't living within their means. It's easy to say "I don't want my tax dollars paying for that". Okay, I agree with that. But what if they're in your situation. 3 years ago you could totally afford your house and put some money into savings. Everything was looking good. All of a sudden, the place you work for downsizes or goes out of business. No problem, you get another job. But wait, everyone else that worked there is also looking for a job too. No problem, you're a go-getter. You're a hard worker and you have connections. Okay, that's all good. But wait, more businesses are also downsizing and many aren't hiring. Your savings are dwindling. You had 6 months saved up but that's going fast and you still can't get a job and more and more people are entering the unemployment lines also looking for a job. Okay, you look like you're going to lose your house. Either you get someone to help you out, like family, or you try to sell...in a market that no one is buying in and is saturated with other people trying to sell sell sell. Times are getting desperate. What to do...you're out of money now....you missed a mortgage payment, but you're still on so-so terms with your bank. A few more months go by and you find yourself having to move into an apartment or with family to kind of weather the storm. You lose your house.Sad story to be sure. No way you could foresee this and it just happens. Now, take this scenario that I just laid out and multiply it by a million. 2 million. 10 million. What then? That's what scares me...no amount of bail-out money could ever even put a dent into something like that. So the people that have saved, were able to keep their jobs and/or home, still making enough to actually pay tax, get to foot the bill? Something is amiss there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goofball Jones Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 By not living way beyond your means is how you plan for that. And how long will that last you? What if you're unemployed for over a year or longer? It happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goofball Jones Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 So the people that have saved, were able to keep their jobs and/or home, still making enough to actually pay tax, get to foot the bill? Something is amiss there. If something like that happens, I don't think people "footing the bill" will be the main problem. The bill would be way too big for anyone to pay anyway. Collapse of society. People fighting for gasoline. Justice doled out in Thunderdome. Two men enter, one man leaves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted March 6, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 If something like that happens, I don't think people "footing the bill" will be the main problem. The bill would be way too big for anyone to pay anyway. Collapse of society. People fighting for gasoline. Justice doled out in Thunderdome. Two men enter, one man leaves! .........cracks knuckles ...........suuuweeeeet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bnyswonger Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 By not living way beyond your means is how you plan for that. The bailouts are a very very bad idea. Why? There are always some big big strings attached to 'free' government money. You can bet your ass on that so careful what you wish for. I think most people just refuse to admit they need to live within their means. We did for a while then we made the tough decision to liquidate 60K worth of an IRA to get out of the hole. In retrospect it was a good move because I took the money out when the market was at 14,000. I was well within my means, pardner. Now my means would be lucky to land me a used RV...and i'm actually a lot better at what I do now than I was then. I live a modest lifestyle, I drive a 10 year old car. I'm not personally expecting any bailout, I just want to see the credit markets freed up so people can participate in this economy again. Then I can go back to earning a decent income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 If something like that happens, I don't think people "footing the bill" will be the main problem. The bill would be way too big for anyone to pay anyway. Collapse of society. People fighting for gasoline. Justice doled out in Thunderdome. Two men enter, one man leaves! Well then why are we "loaning" and "borrowing" unlimited amounts of funds to throw at problems that aren't being fixed at the root of the issue(s) anyway? I mean I'm sorry, I understand you can't always help your plight, but just the nonchalant attitude some seem to have about the people who actually are going to end up paying for these social/welfare/benefit problems is beyond me... I don't even own a house, I rent, and I have a decent job and am single so I pay a helluva lot more outright tax than a lot of people for no particular reason at all. And for the gubmint just to say "Well we're going to just take more of it b/c some people can't handle their own business and need our help!" is complete B.S. Personally I'd take your latter scenario... how many bullets do YOU have? I hope more than me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catphish Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 And how long will that last you? Times being what they are I figured this out recently. If my wife and I BOTH lost our jobs we could survive for a about 14 months. This includes our 6 month "jobless fund" as well as our other savings not including retirement funds. At that point we would be back to square one where we started 10 years ago. I think we were good at saving and bought a house within our means. Luckily we are both in jobs that seem fairly in demand still, but I see my friends who were also good savers, and also bought within their means but who are in fields where the jobs are drying up and there seems to be no end in site. They were responsible. They bought within their means. They had savings, and aren't living month to month. What happens in 6 months when they start losing their homes? Life will go on. Maybe they'll come live with me. Maybe 6 months after that I'll be living with my parents. Life is not fair. Plan for the worst as best you can, then have a backup plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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