Members Ender_rpm Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 Here's the deal - when the house is on fire you try to put it out and minimize damage - you don't want the whole neighborhood to go up in flames. No one stops to ask the homeowner how he feels about water versus chemical retardants or how he feels about a municipal paid fire department versus a volunteer force. We're kind of past the point where fine tuning ideological stances means much - there's a {censored}ing fire to fight. After the smoke clears, you can have the luxury to debate philosophy. To overplay this analogy, the house isn't on fire, an industrial plant is. It makes a big difference in what you use to put out a fire based on what is burning. Right now, they're using (to stretch the analogy to a ridiculous point) water to put out an electrical fire. IMO, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 I blame you for not talking me out of it. Jerk. Yep. He's a mod. With power comes responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catphish Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 Nope. Congress makes the laws The president does have just a little to do with it. [YOUTUBE]mEJL2Uuv-oQ[/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goofball Jones Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members toolbar Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 awrighty, then. Now that my credit cards are maxed out on stuff I didn't really need, I can quit making house payments, kick back and enjoy the good life - maybe buy a boat.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 awrighty, then. Now that my credit cards are maxed out on stuff I didn't really need, I can quit making house payments, kick back and enjoy the good life - maybe buy a boat.... Hey, they tried it in Houston. It'd probably work on a national level, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catphish Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 awrighty, then. Now that my credit cards are maxed out on stuff I didn't really need, I can quit making house payments, kick back and enjoy the good life - maybe buy a boat.... If anyone watched that video I posted from the NU professor a few days ago, at the very end they briefly discuss the "other shoe" that is about to drop. You guessed it. Credit Cards. No job, bills keep coming, people run up their cards and there's nothing you can foreclose on with a piece of plastic. Hold on to your asses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NitroBobby Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 It's easy to blame homeowners for getting in over their heads, but what's irresponsible about buying something you've been told you can afford and then having multiple rugs pulled out from under you in the form af job losses or pay cuts, and property devaluation? In many cases, the easiest thing for the owner to do is walk away let the bank take it, which in turn leads to further devaluation. This is an effort to break that cycle.These guys in Washington are dealing with macro issues, and trying deparately to save the rest of our asses. Give 'em a chance. it's easy to blame the homeowners....because it's thier fault. they were told they could afford it? if i told you i can sell you a ferrari and you can afford it, would you buy it? or would you actually read the contract that you were about to sign? would you figure out that yes, you can afford it for the first 3 years? there after the rate goes up and the payments shoot through the roof. this means that after the initial rate that you can't afford it. that's what these people were doing. they weren't reading the terms. that's why they're in over thier heads. if you can't afford the payments on a home using a fixed rate mortgage, why would you think that you could afford the same home with a sub-prime variable rate mortgage? it's certainly not my fault as a tax-payer that they can't afford the home they bought, but apparently in addition to paying my mortgage on time each month my tax dollars will be going to bail out all of these people who thought they could buy a $400,000 home making $60,000 a year in combined household income. these are {censored}ty times we live in my friends, {censored}ty times indeed. kgb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 My 10 year old just watched that the other day in school. She was singing it all day long. Ya, he can say yes or no. In this case, he wasn't given the opportunity though. Not to worry though, the Pelosi/Frank Dreamteam is on the job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catphish Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 In this case, he wasn't given the opportunity though. That doesn't matter to the "It happened under his watch" crowd. However, I'm not in that crowd which is why I ended the post with a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NitroBobby Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 We have a mortgage on our house. It's a bit of a struggle to pay it every month....and we actually got it refinanced (right before the melt-down started) so now it's a set rate and our payments include the insurance and taxes all rolled into one. We're making it...getting a little tough, but still making the payments. Now, the thing is...for YEARS we got it from all sides. Our friends, our parents, lending organizations, our bank....everyone was saying the same thing "hey, why are you throwing away your money each month on some rental when you could OWN your own home! Come on, you can get a GREAT house!" On and on and on and on. Pressure pressure pressure. Sure, we could have been assholes and told them all to {censored}-off or mind their own business...but you have to realize the pressure you're under and after YEARS of people saying the same thing over and over and over, it starts to sink in. So we bought a house. So go ahead, tell about people "living within their means" etc etc etc. But when you have pressure from everyone AND predatory lenders out there promising the world, I can see how people get roped into this. But go ahead and tell yourself "oh, this would never happen to ME. I'm too smart for that." Do I believe in bailing out people that did this? Why not, we're bailing out these failed banks, failed automakers and the insurers of these failed banks and failed automakers. But honestly, doesn't matter what I think or believe...all this is going to happen no matter what. I don't want all those billions and billions and billions we're spending on this idiotic war either....complaining about it for 5 years has done nothing. so you're saying that you went into the single biggest investment in your life because your mommy and daddy wanted you too? are you friggin kidding me? you buy a house as an investment. you buy a house for your own reasons when you can afford it. you figure out by doing a bit of research and having some clue as to what you can afford what type of home you can live in. don't blame banks or lenders, they're in business to make money. same as a used car salesman. they really don't care one way or the other who you are or what you can afford. if they can get you to sign the papers and get you to pay them, then they've done their job. and you sit there as a grown man and actually type this? it was the pressure from your family? the banks? the predatory lenders? you're an adult, act like one. don't blame peer pressure for getting into a loan you can't afford. that's what 16 year olds do when mom or dad catch them with a joint. as an adult you have responsibility. you should have learned this at some point in your life. so now, because simple minded people are buying things that they can't afford i have to help them. they signed the papers. they agreed to the terms. they agreed to pay the bank. but they didn't do the research. they really didn't read the terms. they didn't have the personal responsibility at the outset of the whole thing to honestly and intelligently assess their situation. so here we are. tax payer money is going to 'help' them. so they're off the hook. personal responsibility is dead. big brother is here to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bnyswonger Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 it's easy to blame the homeowners....because it's thier fault. "snip"kgb And it has nothing to do with a largely unsupervised mortgage industry slicing those mortgages into derivatives, leveraging their asses way beyond what was prudent, and selling them to an unsuspecting world market? Educate yourself a little more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NitroBobby Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 buddy, when you sign the papers it becomes your responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 it's easy to blame the homeowners....because it's thier fault. they were told they could afford it? if i told you i can sell you a ferrari and you can afford it, would you buy it? or would you actually read the contract that you were about to sign? would you figure out that yes, you can afford it for the first 3 years? there after the rate goes up and the payments shoot through the roof. this means that after the initial rate that you can't afford it. that's what these people were doing. they weren't reading the terms. that's why they're in over thier heads. if you can't afford the payments on a home using a fixed rate mortgage, why would you think that you could afford the same home with a sub-prime variable rate mortgage? it's certainly not my fault as a tax-payer that they can't afford the home they bought, but apparently in addition to paying my mortgage on time each month my tax dollars will be going to bail out all of these people who thought they could buy a $400,000 home making $60,000 a year in combined household income. these are {censored}ty times we live in my friends, {censored}ty times indeed. In my brother's case, he was told by me and several others that buying a house was a very bad idea. Two years later, he's month to month and scratching to make his payment. To his credit, he's current on the loan, even if he's a tad late every single month. Personally, I don't see how he's going to be able to keep it, hope I'm wrong. In our case, I'm a big fan of refys. We're in an pretty expensive area and we're paying what one needs to pay in order to get their kids into a decent school. We've been with an interest only loan for years and it's worked out pretty well. If our loan was ever to switch to something that wasn't interest only, it'd be tough, but we'd be able to do it. We're in a loan right now that's rate is 2.25% (which *can* change monthly) and we've been able to make a very small dent in the principal over the last few months. We'll be in much better shape if the Fed keeps the rate where it is for another 6-7 months. For us though, it's pretty much what we had to pay. The only other option was moving out of the area, which isn't really an option considering we've got two sets of aging parents locally and we're the only kids left in the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jugghaid Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 If anyone watched that video I posted from the NU professor a few days ago, at the very end they briefly discuss the "other shoe" that is about to drop. You guessed it. Credit Cards. No job, bills keep coming, people run up their cards and there's nothing you can foreclose on with a piece of plastic. Hold on to your asses. Incorrect my good man. I can lien a property on a credit card bill after taking judgment. Based on the situation and if it's worth the paperwork (mostly based on the equity position) I can also force a forclosure on the property (it's long and complicated, but I have done so). Additionally, I can garnishee wages at the rate of 25% in most states and can also levy bank accounts. The whole point of filing suit and taking a judgment on an unsecured debt is to have legal recourse to collect that money on an involuntary basis. That (in most states) includes being able to attach assets. Wages, real property, bank accounts, and even personal property if I decide to take it that far (sherriffs sale). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 And it has nothing to do with a largely unsupervised mortgage industry slicing those mortgages into derivatives, leveraging their asses way beyond what was prudent, and selling them to an unsuspecting world market? Educate yourself a little more. I blame the Realtors. They're evil, every one of them. Seriously though, I've been a Realtor and it's amazing how much power that title can wield over people. After all, you're the expert and some people are more prone to following advice than wisdom would dictate. I'm sure you've seen that time and time again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catphish Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 Incorrect my good man. I can lien a property on a credit card bill after taking judgment....I can also force a forclosure on the property That'll be a nice trick when they already were foreclosed on and the house is already owned by another bank. Maybe you already own it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jugghaid Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 That'll be a nice trick when they already were foreclosed on and the house is already owned by another bank. Maybe you already own it. Well, yeah, if it's already foreclosed on then I'm SOL. But you were talking about people who are keeping there house payment current and racking up the cards if I understood you correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KovachianOne Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 As someone who is suppossed to close on a house later this month, this bill really scares me. We're doing the right things, keeping the payments around 25% of monthly income, locked in a 30 year at a lowish rate (Thanks VA Loan!!), etc,. I just wonder what wil happen to interest rates, and more importantly since my loan isn't finalized, what effect it will have on our purchase. Kinda (very) scary.If you locked in a low interest rate, then why are you worried about future interest rates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted March 6, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 6, 2009 If anyone watched that video I posted from the NU professor a few days ago, at the very end they briefly discuss the "other shoe" that is about to drop. You guessed it. Credit Cards. No job, bills keep coming, people run up their cards and there's nothing you can foreclose on with a piece of plastic. Hold on to your asses.I didn't need to watch the video. Crap, these credit card companies start out with getting people in to debt early. The minute you sign up for a dorm on the college campus they're shipping pre-approved credit card offers to a kid who's mom and dad pays for everything. It's no surprise to me they're about to crash. The economy was credit driven for way too long. Let the big card companies fail. Some of the smaller, solid banking establishments can be enterprising and figure out how to take their place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catphish Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 Well, yeah, if it's already foreclosed on then I'm SOL. But you were talking about people who are keeping there house payment current and racking up the cards if I understood you correctly. I was talking about out of work people in general. I'd think by the time they couldn't make minimums on their Visa the house would be long gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jugghaid Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 I didn't need to watch the video. Crap, these credit card companies start out with getting people in to debt early. The minute you sign up for a dorm on the college campus they're shipping pre-approved credit card offers to a kid who's mom and dad pays for everything. It's no surprise to me they're about to crash. The economy was credit driven for way too long. Let the big card companies fail. Some of the smaller, solid banking establishments can be enterprising and figure out how to take their place. Well, I can only put PART of the blame on the credit card companies. I can also put a lot of it on our society which has focused on instant gratification for years and years and years. Gotta have the 65" big screen NOW. I'll worry about paying for it later. Gotta have that vacation to europe NOW, I'll pay it off over the next 5 years. Of course I'll take 3 or 4 more vacations in those 5 years. The credit card companies also have some blame here, but it's their job to sell their product. It's up to the individual to decide if they are going to get into debt. My son is a perfect example. He's 23. He's out of college, making about $35k a year, and still living at home so he can save up to buy a house. He has 4 credit cards to build his credit, but keeps a zero balance on his cards and if he does use them he pays them off every month. he basically has them to build his credit. He pays cash for what he needs and puts 25%-30% of his paychecks in savings for a down payment on a house. his cars are paid for.But he learned all this at home. In fact when he was in high school I went and spoke to his school about the dangers of "easy credit" once they get to college. The lenders look at it very simply. You are in college. That means when you get out of college chances are that you will end up with a decent job. If you haven't paid your bill and we sue you on it, that judgment is good for anywhere from 3-20 years depending on what state you live in. We will get our money one way or the other. You can work for us one week of each month until we are paid back. Point is, no one is holding a gun to his head to make him sign up for a credit card or to use a credit card. While I don't neccesarily agree with the tactics of some of the credit card companies (Chase and Discover are the worst) to get people to sign up for their cards, ultimately the responsibility lies with the consumer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jugghaid Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 I was talking about out of work people in general. I'd think by the time they couldn't make minimums on their Visa the house would be long gone. Youwould be surprised. most people with a brain in their head will take care of the mortgage an car payments first and let everything else go south if need be. People who have no income.....well, that's a different story. They aren't paying anyone. BTW the unemployment rate went over 8% today nationally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goofball Jones Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 so you're saying that you went into the single biggest investment in your life because your mommy and daddy wanted you too? are you friggin kidding me? you buy a house as an investment. you buy a house for your own reasons when you can afford it. you figure out by doing a bit of research and having some clue as to what you can afford what type of home you can live in. don't blame banks or lenders, they're in business to make money. same as a used car salesman. they really don't care one way or the other who you are or what you can afford. if they can get you to sign the papers and get you to pay them, then they've done their job. and you sit there as a grown man and actually type this? it was the pressure from your family? the banks? the predatory lenders? you're an adult, act like one. don't blame peer pressure for getting into a loan you can't afford. that's what 16 year olds do when mom or dad catch them with a joint. as an adult you have responsibility. you should have learned this at some point in your life. so now, because simple minded people are buying things that they can't afford i have to help them. they signed the papers. they agreed to the terms. they agreed to pay the bank. but they didn't do the research. they really didn't read the terms. they didn't have the personal responsibility at the outset of the whole thing to honestly and intelligently assess their situation. so here we are. tax payer money is going to 'help' them. so they're off the hook. personal responsibility is dead. big brother is here to help. Spoken by someone that's never owned a house. You honestly believe a house is an investment? Seriously? A house isn't an investment. It's never been an investment. It's a liability until the day it's paid off. Also, {censored} you and your condescending tone. "Mommy and Daddy"? You have no {censored}ing clue as to what you're talking about. Yeah, i suppose I could have put my foot down, broke off contact with my family, my wife's family, my wife....all who were pressuring me to "invest" in this {censored}ing house. I was out-voted. I was out-numbered. I didn't want the house, they all knew I didn't want the house, but guess what, we're in the {censored}ing house. Why? It's called compromise. My wife, my family, her family...they all wanted us to get the house and we got it. I was the lone person that didn't want it. So according to you and your {censored}ed sociopathic advice, I should have just turned my back on them because "I'm an adult and I make my own decisions". What a perfect world you must live in. As far as bailing out people that afford it, I agree. I don't want my tax money going to them. I don't want it going to failed businesses either. I don't want it going to this {censored}ing idiotic war that monkey that left office 2 months ago saddled us with. I don't want a lot of {censored}ing things. Bend over though, no one gives a {censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted March 6, 2009 Members Share Posted March 6, 2009 Well, I can only put PART of the blame on the credit card companies. I can also put a lot of it on our society which has focused on instant gratification for years and years and years. Gotta have the 65" big screen NOW. I'll worry about paying for it later. Gotta have that vacation to europe NOW, I'll pay it off over the next 5 years. Of course I'll take 3 or 4 more vacations in those 5 years. The credit card companies also have some blame here, but it's their job to sell their product. It's up to the individual to decide if they are going to get into debt. My son is a perfect example. He's 23. He's out of college, making about $35k a year, and still living at home so he can save up to buy a house. He has 4 credit cards to build his credit, but keeps a zero balance on his cards and if he does use them he pays them off every month. he basically has them to build his credit. He pays cash for what he needs and puts 25%-30% of his paychecks in savings for a down payment on a house. his cars are paid for. But he learned all this at home. In fact when he was in high school I went and spoke to his school about the dangers of "easy credit" once they get to college. The lenders look at it very simply. You are in college. That means when you get out of college chances are that you will end up with a decent job. If you haven't paid your bill and we sue you on it, that judgment is good for anywhere from 3-20 years depending on what state you live in. We will get our money one way or the other. You can work for us one week of each month until we are paid back. Point is, no one is holding a gun to his head to make him sign up for a credit card or to use a credit card. While I don't neccesarily agree with the tactics of some of the credit card companies (Chase and Discover are the worst) to get people to sign up for their cards, ultimately the responsibility lies with the consumer. +11 Great words. This is what we were taught at home (for the most part) as well. It's called "delayed gratification"... I'm guilty of it myself, but I only have one card that carries a balance and I make way above the minimum payments each month and it's @ 0% APR. That's for my MTD, which to be honest, is just freaking worth it. If I hadn't of bought my ex a dog I could have paid it cash, so, anyway, FWIW... A great expose` on the credit card industry is the movie "Maxxed Out!". Has been running on the movie channels lately. HIGHLY recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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