Members gonzobassman Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 My side project has taken off like wildfire!I have made twice as much money with them so far this year as I have with my "big band" We are practicing our asses off just to have enough material to play the gigs we are getting! This is a great problem to have,and I have no issues with this. We all seem to pretty much be on the same page,and there is lots of potential here. Where I need you opinions is on this subject. I am a bassist that has played every style of music,on damned near every bass made,through damned near every amp made for more than thirty years. I have played in almost every state in our great nation,and eighteen more countries as well.As such,I have learned the value of patience almost to a fault. The drummer I am working with in this project just does not seem to be getting it. He is a great guy with a good attitude,and is an accomplished drummer. That said,most of our rehearsal time is devoted to going over breaks,and endings,and change-ups that he consistantly misses. We spend several hours a week going over this stuff,and at gigs he consistantly misses the same breaks,endings,and change - ups that we spent so much precious time on. It is really starting to get to me! I have discussed it at length with the guitarist(another been around the block more than once type)in detail. I don't expect miracles,but it is an insult to me,to spend even thirty minutes on a break at rehearsal just for it to be missed when its showtime! And the missed endings are the worse thing in the world! Makes the whole band look like a bunch of {censored}ing dipsticks. I feel it is too early into the project to start talking replacement options,and even if I didn't,the drummer is the guy that called me into it in the first place.I would have a hard time booting him from a project he got me into,but not really.I can seperate personal feelings from business realities quite easily.This makes me a real world-class asshole to most of the weekend worriors,and just wanna have some fun types that I have to play with just to play.The fact is,for me,it is not fun if it does not sound proffesional.Missed endings,and botched breaks are the epitome of unproffessional IMHO. I know everyone can have an off night,but when it is the same person every gig? And now for the worse part.This weekend as I struggled to lock in with this guy(which I should'nt have to do)the sad reality hit me like a ton of bricks that I will not be able to play with this guy much longer.As we move up,and start playing some of the rooms I'm playing in in my "big" band,I know I will come completely unglued when the same {censored} happens.I told the guitarist that I would just bow-out before making the rest of the band replace this drummer,and he wants no part of that.We already have a solid date in an important room in town(all of our gigs so far have been in small out of town venues),and I quite frankly don't want to go in,and not sound as tight as my other band. Am I being fickle? Am I being a dick? I truly don't want to get rid of this guy,but I don't have the patience to hold someone's hand that is not up to par.And, I don't want to lose my cool,but I am going to if these things don't change.I am in the process of building a good medium sized venue P.A. system.That is why I have almost all my stuff for sale. My feeling is that if I own the production,then it falls on my shoulders to take charge.Not in a "It's my P.A. so were gonna play this , and were gonna wear that" kind of way. But in a "I'm sorry,but we feel that you just aren't cutting it with the feel we need" kinda way. I've played with tyrants,and don't ever intend to be one. Can any of you offer any suggestions that maybe I have not thought of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gonzobassman Posted March 9, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 Damn!!! I swear when I was writting this I had paragraphs.And they were seperated by spaces,and it looked good. But when I post the same thing always happens!!! All spacing is gone,and it just {censored}ing crams everything together like I'm some kind of {censored}ing idiot!!! I don't know what I am doing wrong,but that(above) was not how that looked before I posted it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jonjohn Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 My side project has taken off like wildfire!I have made twice as much money with them so far this year as I have with my "big band" We are practicing our asses off just to have enough material to play the gigs we are getting! This is a great problem to have,and I have no issues with this. We all seem to pretty much be on the same page,and there is lots of potential here. Where I need you opinions is on this subject. I am a bassist that has played every style of music,on damned near every bass made,through damned near every amp made for more than thirty years. I have played in almost every state in our great nation,and eighteen more countries as well.As such,I have learned the value of patience almost to a fault. The drummer I am working with in this project just does not seem to be getting it. He is a great guy with a good attitude,and is an accomplished drummer. That said,most of our rehearsal time is devoted to going over breaks,and endings,and change-ups that he consistantly misses. We spend several hours a week going over this stuff,and at gigs he consistantly misses the same breaks,endings,and change - ups that we spent so much precious time on. It is really starting to get to me! I have discussed it at length with the guitarist(another been around the block more than once type)in detail. I don't expect miracles,but it is an insult to me,to spend even thirty minutes on a break at rehearsal just for it to be missed when its showtime! And the missed endings are the worse thing in the world! Makes the whole band look like a bunch of {censored}ing dipsticks. I feel it is too early into the project to start talking replacement options,and even if I didn't,the drummer is the guy that called me into it in the first place.I would have a hard time booting him from a project he got me into,but not really.I can seperate personal feelings from business realities quite easily.This makes me a real world-class asshole to most of the weekend worriors,and just wanna have some fun types that I have to play with just to play.The fact is,for me,it is not fun if it does not sound proffesional.Missed endings,and botched breaks are the epitome of unproffessional IMHO. I know everyone can have an off night,but when it is the same person every gig? And now for the worse part.This weekend as I struggled to lock in with this guy(which I should'nt have to do)the sad reality hit me like a ton of bricks that I will not be able to play with this guy much longer.As we move up,and start playing some of the rooms I'm playing in in my "big" band,I know I will come completely unglued when the same {censored} happens.I told the guitarist that I would just bow-out before making the rest of the band replace this drummer,and he wants no part of that.We already have a solid date in an important room in town(all of our gigs so far have been in small out of town venues),and I quite frankly don't want to go in,and not sound as tight as my other band. Am I being fickle? Am I being a dick? I truly don't want to get rid of this guy,but I don't have the patience to hold someone's hand that is not up to par.And, I don't want to lose my cool,but I am going to if these things don't change.I am in the process of building a good medium sized venue P.A. system.That is why I have almost all my stuff for sale. My feeling is that if I own the production,then it falls on my shoulders to take charge.Not in a "It's my P.A. so were gonna play this , and were gonna wear that" kind of way. But in a "I'm sorry,but we feel that you just aren't cutting it with the feel we need" kinda way. I've played with tyrants,and don't ever intend to be one. Can any of you offer any suggestions that maybe I have not thought of? it is hard to read...but I did manage to make a paragraph or two in your post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members misterhinkydink Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 You should make sure the drummer understands he needs to tighten things up. Tell him he needs to practice on his own until he gets it right. Record the band practices so he can hear his {censored}ups and have something to practice with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gonzobassman Posted March 9, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 You should make sure the drummer understands he needs to tighten things up. Tell him he needs to practice on his own until he gets it right. Record the band practices so he can hear his {censored}ups and have something to practice with. That has been suggested,and indeed it may work,but my concern is that it's just the little {censored} that is'nt right.That is why it is so hard to sync in with him. I am more than willing to try it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gonzobassman Posted March 9, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 Thanks Jonjohn!!! That is how it looked before I hit the post option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jonjohn Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 Thanks Jonjohn!!! That is how it looked before I hit the post option. Hit return a few times at the end of each paragraph:thu: I don't know how I know this because I only write a few words at a time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LouSpaceMonkey Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 I'd tell him about the issues with his playing, and put him on a sort of probation. If that dosen't work, I'd bow out given how you feel about the issue, of him bringing you in. My 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 Boy, a drummer who misses the same spots over and over. But he's a nice guy and sounds easy to work with. If he were a mean drunk, you'd have great reason to kick him out. Be straight with the guy. Sounds like you would be happy if he just got his stuff together. If he really can't, he'll leave on his own. (That's my bet.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Perfessor Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 Tell him to smoke that $#*! after band practice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 Record the breaks and endings, and loop them. Send him home with it, and if he can't get it down then, it looks like one of you will have to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gonzobassman Posted March 9, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 Tell him to smoke that $#*! after band practice! He does not smoke any kind of {censored} except cigs,and he does not drink at all!!! Exactly what you want in a band mate/partner!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bryan316 Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 Hmmmm. This might take some sneaky work to pull off. Have a fan come up, and mention this stuff. "Yeah those songs were great! But the ending of that one song, did you guys screw up or is it supposed to sound like that?" A few gigs of that, he'll get the hint, but since it's coming from a fan not the bandmates, it might sting a little deeper and make him realise and pay attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gonzobassman Posted March 9, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 good point Bryan with a y,but my point is,it's all simple stupid {censored}! I mean,I could almost understand if anything we are doing was complicated,but... And it would sound so frigging tight if he would just do his part,instead of following us,and trying to catch the stuff. Little lead in fills ,and double snare pops that que the entire band are non-existant. Know what I mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 Sounds to me like your drummer isn't putting in any time outside of rehearsals -- that needs to change. Practice is what you do on your own, rehearsal is where you put it all together. Perhaps you could gently give him some homework one day and see how he responds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 He does not smoke any kind of {censored} except cigs,and he does not drink at all!!! Exactly what you want in a band mate/partner!!! That there is the problem! That's just not normal behavior for a dummer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted March 9, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 9, 2009 I know you've discussed your frustrati9on with the guitarist, but since the issue is with the drummer and he was the source that brought you in to the band, how does he feel? Does he actually recognize that he is forgetting breaks and endings? What is his opinion of these parts that are flubbed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blueyedmule Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 Maybe he did play better stoned?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chris-dax Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 first of all - it's not personal...you have a problem with the drumming, not the drummer secondly - there really is no excuse for the problems to be repeated over and over. None. Once the problem is identified and all agree that it is a problem, it should be fixed. It's not like you're asking the drummer to play some impossible riff or do stuff that isn't possible. Everyone else in the band hits the endings...so no excuses. third - you're already done...I'm not sure if you've admitted that fully, but your post clearly shows you've past the point of no return...ie, correcting the drumming is not an option, it has to happen or you're out. So make sure everyone understands it as well. fourth - it's not personal fifth - you're absolutely right. No musician who is serious about their art/vocation should compromise the 'product' because someone else in the band is not making a committment to the project. Right now everyone, except the drummer, is compromising, ie accepting an inferior result. IMO musicians often think that 'well we're just a local band so 'local' standards apply.' BS - you all have the exact same responsibility to your art, to your audience, and to yourselves as if you were appearing at the superbowl or whatever. If you're the only one in your band who feels like that, then you're going be continually frustrated and unhappy. If the drummer is the only one who doesn't feel like that, it's going to be a continual source of conflict and will hinder your band in a lot of dimensions. It's not personal...but neither is it negotiable...it get's fixed or you're out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chris-dax Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 one more thing...it's not your job to fix the drumming. Others have suggested recording the gigs or other ways to help the drummer...not your job. It's up to him to figure it out. If he needs help like recording or memory tricks or whatever, he needs to initiate that dialog. Of course you'll do whatever you can to help...like recording or hand signals or whatever you can do, but it is the drummer's job to figure out what to do and make it happen. Put it on him... The other part about locking in and groove...once you get the cards out on the table about getting his endings together, you'll be amazed at how his communication skills improve on the bandstand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L-1329 Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 Sounds to me like your drummer isn't putting in any time outside of rehearsals -- that needs to change. Practice is what you do on your own, rehearsal is where you put it all together. Exactly what I was thinking. My last band died because the guitarist and singer both never put in an ounce of effort in between rehearsals. The guitarist was too tied into another band that ours took the backseat. And it showed. Week after week of the same missed changes, endings, etc, and it was clear it would never change with then in the band. I quit because it was a waste of my time, no matter what skills the band members had. It really sounds like this guy has too much on his plate outside this band, which you already said is your side project. If he has too much life going on to commit more of his time to getting this show down, he never will, and you know what you need to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members collinwho Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 Sounds to me like your drummer isn't putting in any time outside of rehearsals -- that needs to change. Practice is what you do on your own, rehearsal is where you put it all together. Perhaps you could gently give him some homework one day and see how he responds? That is what it comes across as to me, too. I've always said that I don't care to have the most people talented people in my bands, I'd much rather have the most passionate. Seems like every time I play with talented people, they almost nail it right off the bat... but then they always almost nail it after that, too. It doesn't improve because they know they are pretty good at it. The less talented, more passionate, people I have play with generally don't nail it right away (some of them sound downright horrible right away), but they work really hard and eventually they reach a point where it is perfect. Your drummer either needs to put more work in on his own, or he needs to be replaced by someone who will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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