Some Obama socialism I might get behind.

[Oddsock]

I've never really understood why my Federal Stafford loan comes to me through Wells Fargo, and the Fed pays the interest on it while I'm in school. Why didn't the Fed just give me or the school the loan directly and not charge interest while I'm in school? It's a racket.

[isaac42]

Some Obama socialism I might get behind.

 

 

Commie.

[isaac42]

Those schools do exist... They're called trade schools. IMO, college has always been as much (if not more) about expanding your knowledge/horizons as it is learning what you need for a trade.

 

 

Right. It's about getting an education, not learning a trade.

[catphish]

Here's a idea, keep the costs down by keeping salaries and benefits in line with the private sector.

 

 

I'm confused by this statement. Private schools cost many times what their public counterparts do. I think I'm not understanding what you mean.

 

Any help?

[Kindness]

I'm confused by this statement. Private schools cost many times what their public counterparts do. I think I'm not understanding what you mean. Any help?

He might mean pay professors more in line with what they'd make in the private sector. That means at the public law school I attended, instead of paying the professors 250-300k/year, they should be paid ~1 million. Oh wait, never mind.

[J.]

I'm confused by this statement. Private schools cost many times what their public counterparts do. I think I'm not understanding what you mean. Any help?

Well, public schools are generally less expensive tuition-wise because they get massive government subsidies. Private schools have to do it all on their own. Here in Minnesota, we spend 11% of our whopping $32 billion budget on higher ed. I have a feeling that if the University of Minnesota was suddenly without gov't money, their tuition would be far higher than the most expensive private college in the state.

I have a bachelor's degree from the U of M, and I can say from first hand experience that they waste money like none other. They decided to renovate the student center. It was supposed to take two years and cost just under a million dollars. It took more than twice that long and cost 3.5 million bucks. When they finally reopened it, students hated it. The super seniors and grad students who remembered the original design hated it the most. The thing is, there was no one to blame. No person or committee or board had any accountability in the thing. It was just more money down the drain. This is how the U of M operates.

If our government thinks they have the prerogative to haul in oil company executives and grill them about profits and fuel prices, why the heck don't they drag the board of regents of Universities in too? College costs have far outpaced inflation, much more so than oil could ever hope to. Yet, we never hear about how higher ed is gouging. We just hear about how we need more gov't loans to help kids pay for it.



http://www.finaid.org/savings/tuition-inflation.phtml

According to a table further down on that page, tuition inflation has often been triple (or more) than the rate of general inflation. This has been going on for years and years. On a "good" year, college tuition only rises at twice the rate of general inflation.

I remember the U of M bragging about how their tuition increase was only going to be in the single percentages one year. Imagine that!

[catphish]

I understand that public schools get gov't money. I was thinking more in terms of what Kindness stated regarding salaries and benefits that Jeff mentions

 

From what very little I know about teachers salaries at private vs public institutions, the private school teachers make more. At least in at the high school and college levels that I'm familiar with.

[Kindness]

I understand that public schools get gov't money. I was thinking more in terms of what Kindness mentioned regarding salaries and benifits that Jeff mentioned. From what very little I know about teachers salaries at private vs public institutions, the private school teachers make more. At least in at the high school and college levels that I'm familiar with.

 

 

I was simply comparing teachers vs. private sector. I know I make a lot more not teaching than I would teaching. All of my friends that have gone back to being law school professors have taken HUGE paycuts.

[jasper383]

Isn't a large part of the outrageous tuition inflation due to the easy access students have to loans already?

 

Colleges know that the students are willing to take out loans in just about any amount to go to school, thus any incentive to keep an eye on costs goes out the window.

[catphish]

I was simply comparing teachers vs. private sector. I know I make a lot more not teaching than I would teaching. All of my friends that have gone back to being law school professors have taken HUGE paycuts.

 

 

Okay, but what would a law professor at a top public school make compared to a top private school?

[catphish]

Isn't a large part of the outrageous tuition inflation due to the easy access students have to loans already? Colleges know that the students are willing to take out loans in just about any amount to go to school, thus any incentive to keep an eye on costs goes out the window.

 

 

They still have a profit margin to worry about. Every dollar they save goes into their pockets.

[Kindness]

 

Okay, but what would a law professor at a top public school make compared to a top private school?

 

 

I think about the same - I'll ask around.

[catphish]

I think about the same - I'll ask around.

Perhaps I'm all wet then.

My friends who teach locally have told me the private schools pay much better than public and are therefore the most competitive to get jobs at.

[Kindness]

Perhaps I'm all wet then. My friends who teach locally have told me the private schools pay much better than public and are therefore the most competitive to get jobs at.

I know that the schools I went to growing up (5 schools between K-12 - 3 private, 2 public), in some cases the private school teachers were paid more than the local public school teachers and in other cases not. I don't have intimate knowledge at the undergrad level, but I do at the law school level. I think the stronger correlation is between school rank and teacher pay than between private vs. public and teacher pay.

[wades_keys]

I'd like to see the colleges teach the subjects that the student needs to learn to be in the sector they plan on for their career instead of wasting 2 years of general studies that don't mean much of anything in the grand scheme of things.

 

I wouldn't.

 

Academic pursuits should not be tied directly to the business sector.

 

If you want that, there should be a vocational system in place to handle these needs.

[chris-dax]

In a statement President Obama said "In the end, this is not about growing the size of government or relying on the free market, because it's not a free market when we have a student loan system that's rigged to reward private lenders without any risk....oh hell who am I trying to kid...of course it's about growing the size of government...lol."

[Bassin' 'Round]

Isn't a large part of the outrageous tuition inflation due to the easy access students have to loans already? Colleges know that the students are willing to take out loans in just about any amount to go to school, thus any incentive to keep an eye on costs goes out the window.

 

...exactly right...the fantastic prices are absolutely tied to easy loan availablity...but more than just removing incentive to watch costs, they've actively used it as an opportunity to jack prices up without restraint...

[Bassin' 'Round]

Well, public schools are generally less expensive tuition-wise because they get massive government subsidies. Private schools have to do it all on their own. Here in Minnesota, we spend 11% of our whopping $32 billion budget on higher ed. I have a feeling that if the University of Minnesota was suddenly without gov't money, their tuition would be far higher than the most expensive private college in the state. I have a bachelor's degree from the U of M, and I can say from first hand experience that they waste money like none other. They decided to renovate the student center. It was supposed to take two years and cost just under a million dollars. It took more than twice that long and cost 3.5 million bucks. When they finally reopened it, students hated it. The super seniors and grad students who remembered the original design hated it the most. The thing is, there was no one to blame. No person or committee or board had any accountability in the thing. It was just more money down the drain. This is how the U of M operates. If our government thinks they have the prerogative to haul in oil company executives and grill them about profits and fuel prices, why the heck don't they drag the board of regents of Universities in too? College costs have far outpaced inflation, much more so than oil could ever hope to. Yet, we never hear about how higher ed is gouging. We just hear about how we need more gov't loans to help kids pay for it. http://www.finaid.org/savings/tuition-inflation.phtml According to a table further down on that page, tuition inflation has often been triple (or more) than the rate of general inflation. This has been going on for years and years. On a "good" year, college tuition only rises at twice the rate of general inflation. I remember the U of M bragging about how their tuition increase was only going to be in the single percentages one year. Imagine that!

...correctamundo!...it's criminal behavior that they're involved in...extortion actually...

[Brother Mango]

 

I've never really understood why my Federal Stafford loan comes to me through Wells Fargo, and the Fed pays the interest on it while I'm in school. Why didn't the Fed just give me or the school the loan directly and not charge interest while I'm in school? It's a racket.

 

 

It's a racket all around; but the students aren't in on the take.

 

Schools can jack up their tuitions and fees knowing that students will get the loans to pay for it. The students aren't considered for the loans based on the likelihood of being able to pay the money back.

 

So, an art student can go get an MFA, come out owing over $100K in student loans, and end up making $30,000/yr on a couple of crappy part-time jobs. The university got their money. The student gets phone calls warning them about going into default.

 

The university never has to seriously consider layoffs, cutbacks, shut downs. Hell ... raise tuition and fees, and the overly-optimistic 20yr old kids will borrow the money and turn it over. If something goes wrong for the borrower, student loans can't even be part of bankruptcy. A person's social security can even be garnished for student loans.

 

Is there anything to help someone who reaches 70 yrs old with $30K in student loans, is drawing social security and is in a nursing home? Can grandma be kicked out because the gov't is garnishing the social security and the remainder isn't enough to keep her there? Or, is this the sort of situation, short of death, that can forgive loans that never should have been given in the first place?

[Brother Mango]

*snip* If our government thinks they have the prerogative to haul in oil company executives and grill them about profits and fuel prices, why the heck don't they drag the board of regents of Universities in too? College costs have far outpaced inflation, much more so than oil could ever hope to. Yet, we never hear about how higher ed is gouging. We just hear about how we need more gov't loans to help kids pay for it. *snip*

 

[Brother Mango]

 

Liberals created a perfect system. Keep jacking up the price of college costs, then make people pay interest on the loans from the GOVERNMENT. What a deal. Here's a idea, keep the costs down by keeping salaries and benefits in line with the private sector.

 

 

It doens't help to lookin the rearview mirrow and firgure out whose fault this is. I don't know whose fault it is but I doubt that the cash grab leans toward one party or another.

 

Looking through the windshield, however, I do wonder what incentives there are for universities to think about what their education costs their students. And it's not just an issue of salaries.

 

I was going to take a single course through a community college. When I went through registration and got to the cashier's window I said, "{censored} it! I ain't doing this."

 

There was the tuition, and all kinds of fees that nearly doubled the price of the course. Lockerroom fees. WTF! This was a fiction writing class. The final straw was a $50 fee for taking just one course.

 

 

Great! {censored} it! I'm going home. Thanks.

 

(By this time I was in my 30s and was aware of what it took to earn $50. I wasn't a 20yr old ready to sign some papers and hope everything works out.)

[jasper383]

It's a racket all around; but the students aren't in on the take. Schools can jack up their tuitions and fees knowing that students will get the loans to pay for it. The students aren't considered for the loans based on the likelihood of being able to pay the money back. So, an art student can go get an MFA, come out owing over $100K in student loans, and end up making $30,000/yr on a couple of crappy part-time jobs. The university got their money. The student gets phone calls warning them about going into default. The university never has to seriously consider layoffs, cutbacks, shut downs. Hell ... raise tuition and fees, and the overly-optimistic 20yr old kids will borrow the money and turn it over. If something goes wrong for the borrower, student loans can't even be part of bankruptcy. A person's social security can even be garnished for student loans. Is there anything to help someone who reaches 70 yrs old with $30K in student loans, is drawing social security and is in a nursing home? Can grandma be kicked out because the gov't is garnishing the social security and the remainder isn't enough to keep her there? Or, is this the sort of situation, short of death, that can forgive loans that never should have been given in the first place?

Well said.

Wait until loan money is even easier to get.

And the talk is always, "having more people out there with a college education is the way we face the 21st century." I disagree. We need more people out there with the skills for the jobs of the 21st century.

How many more thousand BAs in Communications from mid to lower level colleges do we need roaming around out there before the college degree is completely devalued?

[Orph]

I do not understand quite why so many Americans are so afraid of socialism ? I'm a Norwegian which is a predominantly socialistic country, and we've proved that it works. Free healthcare and free schools. Downside is paying as much tax, but at least we see our money working for us.

[Brother Mango]

Well said. Wait until loan money is even easier to get. And the talk is always, "having more people out there with a college education is the way we face the 21st century." I disagree. We need more people out there with the skills for the jobs of the 21st century. How many more thousand BAs in Communications from mid to lower level colleges do we need roaming around out there before the college degree is completely devalued?

 

Many of them don't even get the degree. Many do try, get through a year or 2 then quit ... taking their student loans with them.

[Brother Mango]

 

I do not understand quite why so many Americans are so afraid of socialism ? I'm a Norwegian which is a predominantly socialistic country, and we've proved that it works. Free healthcare and free schools. Downside is paying as much tax, but at least we see our money working for us.

 

 

I wonder how many of us really really understand it enough to be so vigorously against it.