Members lug Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090703/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_overhaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zachoff Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 Not sure what to think... While I do support a baseline government healthcare system, I don't want to see people fined if they don't "buy into" said baseline government healthcare system. That's a bit counter-intuitive (read: horse-{censored}). I do like that they're proposing 'pre-existing conditions' be done away with... I came this close to having to pay for my first child's birth because of pre-existing conditions (pregnancy was considered a pre-existing condition by Kaiser, but we qualified for Medicaid instead... The only time I've ever taken welfare). Really, though... Fining people that don't "buy in"? That's {censored}ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldivor Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 So if you don't want it you pay a 1k fine. {censored}ing bull{censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zamfir Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 So if you don't want it you pay a 1k fine. {censored}ing bull{censored}. One might argue that not paying for any health insurance and consuming expensive ER or hospital services of any kind that other taxpayers and people with insurance end up paying for, is {censored}ing bull{censored}. God help me, I sound like a conservative... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members samson3382 Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 :facepalm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thrustin Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 The forthcoming debate about healthcare is going to get rough. I hope this to not be the case, but I think it may be impossible for this country, or this forum to engage in meaningful discourse. And...[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldivor Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 One might argue that not paying for any health insurance and consuming expensive ER or hospital services of any kind that other taxpayers and people with insurance end up paying for, is {censored}ing bull{censored}. God help me, I sound like a conservative... I never said anything like that or that's how it should be run. I believe people should have the freedom to choose and the responsibility to pay for services they use themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 I never said anything like that or that's how it should be run. I believe people should have the freedom to choose and the responsibility to pay for services they use themselves. The problem is that there are too many people (for example, uninsured drug seekers or uninsured people that cant own up to responsibility for their own actions) that have abused the system. We wind up paying for it in the long run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members samson3382 Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 that amount of money ($4,704) lost per year would completely break me.... would it be a yearly fine of $1000? or a one time thing. i wonder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zamfir Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 The problem is that there are too many people (for example, uninsured drug seekers or uninsured people that cant own up to responsibility for their own actions) that have abused the system. We wind up paying for it in the long run And ethically, most of us have trouble with the idea of denying fellow citizens basic, acute care based on inability to pay, which is why market/efficiency values are insufficient as the deciding criteria. Hence the headache, and the struggle to define at what threshold a poorer person should have to pay something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members walkerci Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 Yet another attack on small businesses which provide 2/3 of the jobs in the USA. Why don't politicians understand that being employed without health insurance is better than being unemployed without health insurance? That is the choice for millions of people. Nowhere in the Constitution or Bill of Rights is there any mention of a right to health care. If we REALLY want to reduce health care costs, we have to: 1. Stop the lawyers from feeding off the system. Get rid of joint and several liability. Disallow lawsuits for everything but gross negligence. Expand "Good Samaritan" protections to health care providers who provide charity care. Heavily fine plaintiffs and lawyers that bring frivolous lawsuits. 2. Stop paying for health care for illegal aliens. If private hospitals (Catholic church operated, etc) want to provide charity care, then fine. Otherwise we need to bill and collect from their home country. If the home country refuses to pay, we can impose a 10% tax on all money transfers to that country. 3. Put all elected officials into a HMO plan with a co-pay similar to what a private sector company would offer. Discontinue health care coverage for elected officials (current and former) who are eligible for Medicare. 4. Clamp down on H1b visa abuse, especially with IT workers. This will allow more Americans to go back to work and have health insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hawkhuff Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 So if you don't want it you pay a 1k fine. {censored}ing bull{censored}. No it's not...... it's for your own good. :waggingfinger: And who knows what's better for you than the government? If you're a wage earner then you're paying for mediscare, medicaid and your private insurance. :thu: I have a question. If you're poor and you cannot afford the insurance and you're fined $1,000 who gives you the money to pay the fine?? Probably you and me. WTF? More good gubmint damned logic. It's not about health care and healthy Americans, it's a power grab and fascist takeover of another 20% of the economy. Obomicare. YAY!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members faileddrummer Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 One might argue that not paying for any health insurance and consuming expensive ER or hospital services of any kind that other taxpayers and people with insurance end up paying for, is {censored}ing bull{censored}. God help me, I sound like a conservative... +1. But then you have to think... If no one participates, and everyone gets fined, and everyone refuses to pay the fine.... V For Vendetta was a good book. You all should read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 Not sure what to think... While I do support a baseline government healthcare system, I don't want to see people fined if they don't "buy into" said baseline government healthcare system. That's a bit counter-intuitive (read: horse-{censored}).Really, though... Fining people that don't "buy in"? That's {censored}ed. You voted for it, plain and simple... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members t3ch Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 +1. But then you have to think... If no one participates, and everyone gets fined, and everyone refuses to pay the fine.... V For Vendetta was a good book. You all should read it. Something tells me it's not exactly the government sending you a health-care bill in the mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zachoff Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 You voted for it, plain and simple... - georgestrings To be fair, my reason for voting for Obama was out of fear of the social right (though Obama's still pretty socially right in my book). As I said, I am for some sort of basic government sponsored healthcare but I don't want it to be "illegal" if people don't have it. That weak. Super weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members s4001 Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 I wonder how many of the illegal aliens choking the hospital emergency rooms will get the fine? None? I thought not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knuckle_head Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 I'm not being flip here... Is there an alternative to gov-sponsored health care that will temper its inflation rate? Will gov-sponsored health care even help with that? I believe insurance as an industry has made near-everything far more expensive than is called for - health care, automotive repair, home ownership, blah blah blah..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zachoff Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 I believe insurance as an industry has made near-everything far more expensive than is called for - health care, automotive repair, home ownership, blah blah blah..... Totally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted July 3, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the results. Insurance agencies will jack prices once it's mandatory, more people forced onto government rolls (medicare/maedicaid clone), due to the extremely low payout from these, docs will turn down these patients (this already happens in great numbers across the medical community). Gov will then make it mandatory for docs to see them and regulate how and what they test. This equals nationalised health care but just with a different name. So simple, everyone but a politician can see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members P1gg1e Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 Considering we aren't treated in the system that often , we had our youngest at home etc...I wonder how we will fit into this evil system....I'm sure we will be first on the cattle cars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knuckle_head Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 I haven't read the proposal and don't doubt your summation. How, then, does one check medical inflation? It is twice or more what almost everything else increases at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators isaac42 Posted July 3, 2009 Moderators Share Posted July 3, 2009 Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the results. Insurance agencies will jack prices once it's mandatory, more people forced onto government rolls (medicare/maedicaid clone), due to the extremely low payout from these, docs will turn down these patients (this already happens in great numbers across the medical community). Gov will then make it mandatory for docs to see them and regulate how and what they test. This equals nationalised health care but just with a different name. So simple, everyone but a politician can see it. What a great plan. If you're in the health insurance business, that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members s4001 Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 I'm not being flip here...Is there an alternative to gov-sponsored health care that will temper its inflation rate?Will gov-sponsored health care even help with that?I believe insurance as an industry has made near-everything far more expensive than is called for - health care, automotive repair, home ownership, blah blah blah..... Easy 'nuff. I'm old enough to remember when health care was affordable. I've even had a doctor to my house on a house call. Back then, the customer was directly billed for the services of the doctor. People were aware of the costs of things. You could shop for services and that kept prices lower. Pay a copay (or downpayment) and make 50$ payments to the Dr's office for a few months and there you go. When was the last time you went to the doctor and they told you how much it was going to cost? They don't. An insurance company is *paying* for it, not *you.* Tort reform would keep prices down. The liability insurance for Dr's is punitive (hmm... an insurance company again..) And, of course, emergency rooms need to turn people away that use them for Dr office visits. If you've ever been to an ER around here you'd notice it's chock full of folks that don't belong there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members P1gg1e Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 Easy 'nuff. I'm old enough to remember when health care was affordable. I've even had a doctor to my house on a house call. Back then, the customer was directly billed for the services of the doctor. People were aware of the costs of things. You could shop for services and that kept prices lower. Pay a copay (or downpayment) and make 50$ payments to the Dr's office for a few months and there you go. When was the last time you went to the doctor and they told you how much it was going to cost? They don't. An insurance company is *paying* for it, not *you.* Tort reform would keep prices down. The liability insurance for Dr's is punitive (hmm... an insurance company again..) And, of course, emergency rooms need to turn people away that use them for Dr office visits. If you've ever been to an ER around here you'd notice it's chock full of folks that don't belong there. But if they have a hang nail where will they go??! great post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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