Noob Bass Question(s)

[Syyle]

Basically I am inquiring about bass amps/effects for the bassist in my band. I have recommended that he try to absorb some knowledge from forumites and online communities where questions are asked and answered about stuff like this all the time. But alas, he just won't do it...so here I am

 

Anyways, here's some general information on his set up:

 

the amp he is currently running is this

http://bass-guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Bassman-150-Bass-Combo-Amp?sku=480872

 

he is playing this bass

http://bass-guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Ibanez-SR500-Soundgear-4String-Bass?sku=515055

 

and is using this effects module

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Tech-21-SansAmp-Para-Driver-DI-Instrument-Preamp-Pedal?sku=151799

 

Basically, he is getting frustrated with his tone. He plays a lot of stuff that shifts between the low and high register of his bass, and he wants it all to shine out all the time...but his high stuff is just getting drowned out when we play together. Our sound is something like a mixture of Tool/Soundgarden/Alice in Chains. So there needs to be that heavy factor mixed with that elusive element of clarity.

 

Do you all think it's an amp issue, bass guitar issue, effects issue, or a combination of all three? Any recommendations for him to get that Tool/fully-realized bass sound? He's tried things like boosting his mids/trebs, but it ends up just increasing his string/fret sound, and it just gets distracting. The guitarists in our band have their sounds pretty intelligently EQed so as to not be stepping all over the bassists high-end frequencies (or at least try not to...). When he drops into the low stuff he can be heard just fine, but when he jumps to the high stuff, it sounds like the string-attack/volume of his whole set up just drops by 50%.

 

Sorry if this is all pretty noobish stuff to be asking...but I am not familiar with a lot of bass-tone theory and I am genuinely interested in this subject.

 

Thanks in advance for any help in the right direction.

[sunburstbasser]

To start, have him set the bass EQ flat, and both pickups equally balanced. Plug straight into the amp, skipping the DI for now.

 

From here, you can use the amp's own EQ to start adjusting. Start with all the knobs straight up, and all other features like the compressor bypassed. Generally, I get a sound I like by boosting the lows and low mids, cutting hi mids, and leaving the treble straight up. If he cuts all his mids out anywhere along the line, his sound will disappear under guitars and high notes will sound thin. The midrange EQ on that amp has two bands, each with both a normal volume and a frequency. It takes a little patience, but finding the proper frequency to affect is going to help a lot.

 

The Sansamp's biggest strength is the ability to add some warmth like a tube amp to his signal.

 

I've found that the EQ on a bass is best used for small changes, like adding just a little bottom and cutting treble to get a warmer sound like for a soul ballad.

 

Bassists like Justin Chancellor of Tool use picks and new strings. If your bassist uses old strings, they won't sound the same and won't have as much bite to the sound.

[Syyle]

Would a new amp help adjust his tone, or give him new avenues for shaping his tone? How about a tube amp?

 

Also, are there any decent bass multi-FX units out there?

[Thumper]

 

Would a new amp help adjust his tone, or give him new avenues for shaping his tone? How about a tube amp? Also, are there any decent bass multi-FX units out there?

 

 

Before investing in a new amp, I'd suggest following sunburstbasser's advice first. Try tweaking what you've got. New strings sound like a good start.

[bassman1956]

I would agree with the new strings idea.

 

Also, is he able to get away from the cab while playing? As in, put distance between himself and the speaker? If not, I would suggest he get a 20' or longer cable, and stand as far away from the cab as possible while playing. This really influences what you hear, as it takes bass frequencies some room to develop.

[Syyle]

cool! thanks for the help all! i will inform my bassist, and we will use this information as a jumping platform.

[KPC]

Use better strings (DR highbeams). Then set the amp flat and start from there. Most of the time, less is more on the bass.

[RoboChrist]

I'm just trying to figure out how a bassist can think a 150 watt 112 can be anything but completely useless for a band.

 

Bass frequencies require tremendous amounts of power to be heard properly, and that's his ONLY problem. He needs a good 400 watts and more speaker area to accomplish a decent sound. That's it, really.

[degroove]

I'm just trying to figure out how a bassist can think a 150 watt 112 can be anything but completely useless for a band. Bass frequencies require tremendous amounts of power to be heard properly, and that's his ONLY problem. He needs a good 400 watts and more speaker area to accomplish a decent sound. That's it, really.

 

+1. I agree.

[T. Alan Smith]

I'm just trying to figure out how a bassist can think a 150 watt 112 can be anything but completely useless for a band. Bass frequencies require tremendous amounts of power to be heard properly, and that's his ONLY problem. He needs a good 400 watts and more speaker area to accomplish a decent sound. That's it, really.

 

No kidding!

Otherwise, the advice already mentioned is good.

 

...but get an amp that fits your situation, bro.

[jackcheez]

Another vote for he needs a more powerful amp.

[Mogwix]

 

This really influences what you hear, as it takes bass frequencies some room to develop.

 

That's ridiculous. Low freq sound waves are longitudinal, and propagate omnidirectionally (depending on the frequency), with the volume dropping logarithmically as the distance from the source increases... just like the mid and high frequencies.

 

My advice? Try a little compression. Not too much... just enough to smooth out the lows and punch up the higher freqs.

[wades_keys]

I have no idea how he's running the eq settings on the Sansamp and his amp, but I suspect he's boosting way too much.

 

That is a relatively anemic amp for heavy material, but if he's hearing the lows and not the highs then it's more an eq issue than a volume issue.

[Jazz Ad]

That's ridiculous. Low freq sound waves are longitudinal, and propagate omnidirectionally (depending on the frequency), with the volume dropping logarithmically as the distance from the source increases... just like the mid and high frequencies.

In small rooms, reflections on the walls kill lower frequencies before the waves have time to even develop. As a result, you need more power for bass in a small than in a medium room.

[Mogwix]

 

In small rooms, reflections on the walls kill lower frequencies before the waves have time to even develop. As a result, you need more power for bass in a small than in a medium room.

 

You're describing standing waves, which is the "real" problem behind the misconception that a low frequency wave needs time and space to "develop"... which makes absolutely NO sense.

[degroove]

 

You're describing standing waves, which is the "real" problem behind the misconception that a low frequency wave needs time and space to "develop"... which makes absolutely NO sense.

 

 

As a bass player, I know that standing anywhere near the amp leads to hearing less bass than standing away. Or those are the acoustics where I play. I have a GK 7000 RB and Eden210T and Eden 115.

[DevilRaysFan]

String freshness is the best place to start....there are methods to keeping string life longer without breaking the wallet

[Mogwix]

 

As a result, you need more power for bass in a small than in a medium room.

 

Continuing on, this is bad advice, because fighting a small room with more bass is fighting FIRE with FIRE. As the source volume increases, so do the reflections, and the room nodes become much more apparent. Just like playing in a highly reflective room... if the band gets louder so will the reverb... and then it's just a wash of mud at 140dB.

[Perfessor]

Some of the best tone is a set of old flats.....

[KPC]

He'll probably need a little more power for his situation and possibly a 4 ten cab so he can cut thru.....