Members Thunderbroom Posted September 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 17, 2007 I think there's something on their web page...http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythbusters/about/about.htmlIt says to post it on the discussion board. I submitted it. We'll see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted September 17, 2007 Moderators Share Posted September 17, 2007 I believe that so far in this thread I've been told that I have a complete lack of integrity and I am deaf. Unreal. Even the person that heard differences and correctly identified the various cables (all of them, including the Sommer that no one else could correctly identify) believes any differences are extremely slight. For anyone to say that any differences between these cables is "significant" is disgusting. I wish everyone on the board could be here to hear this stuff. LavaMan, there is an offer in this thread for some additional testing in KC. Can I send your cables to mlwarriner for additional testing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassesofalessergod Posted September 17, 2007 Members Share Posted September 17, 2007 I submitted it. We'll see what happens. you coulda sexed up your submission a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ender_rpm Posted September 17, 2007 Members Share Posted September 17, 2007 I wonder how much ear fatigue was a factor in later rounds of testing? I would think the perceived bene's of high end cables are mostly in the higher region of human hearing, meaning sara, being younger with less high freq loss, could hear the subtle differences? Of course, doing these tests in a sound proof isolation chamber, with scopes and such would be ideal. But it would also be irrelevant. Once drum squeaks, guitar hum, and PA hiss are added, any likely difference is blown. Also, I wonder if the use of a reference rig, vice direct to a board, makes a significant difference, ie is the rig capable of producing the freqs the cable claims to effect? In nay case, this was a good "working musicians" test, vice a Audiophile one, but I think those guys are moslty nuts anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members basshunter Posted September 17, 2007 Members Share Posted September 17, 2007 I submitted it. We'll see what happens. As soon as I recieve my confirmation email, I'll post in support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted September 17, 2007 Members Share Posted September 17, 2007 Once again, you have no data. You "knew" they sounded different? How? You state that it's because "they all had different levels of capactitance(sic), inductance as well as condcutor(sic) differences..." but that's only theory, hypothesis actually, that they ought to sound different, not knowledge that they do. Here's a hint: the next step, after formulating a hypothesis, is to test it. T'broom did, and the results did not support the hypothesis. I agree that T'broom's reporting of his tests leave something to be desired. How many runs were done, what were the actual results (as in, "Out of twenty runs, the correct cable was identified only eleven times, a result not significantly different from chance."), how was the switching done, and so on. However, there are such data available, and they do not support your position: http://www.provide.net/~djcarlst/abx_wire.htmYou continue to make a testable claim, that "... it is a significant difference." Yet you provide no data. Time, I think, to stop impugning people's hearing and integrity, and put up or shut up. Let's see your data. ....or at the minimum post the actual capacitive value of the cables in question so we can add those picofarads up for ourselves! No one claimed the capacitive value had no effect, it's just that the difference between two quality built cables is so insignificant as to almost be discounted. There have been some crappy cables out there that I'm sure can effect your sound, but I still say the the capacitive values are still effected MUCH more by the length you use than the brand. Of course selling shorter cables for more money because they sound better rahter than high dollar name brands might not work so well as a business model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted September 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 17, 2007 I think it's just not one enough people care about. After submitting the request at Mythbusters, I tend to agree; HOWEVER, it it were broadened to AV equipment as well I bet there would be more of an audience. Places like BestBuy push the $125 Monster HDMI cables for the new HDTV's. I bought three no-names for $21 off the net and have a very clear picture on mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members johnny6644 Posted September 17, 2007 Members Share Posted September 17, 2007 That's the exact cable I use and after 2 years of abuse I have to say, I'm just tickled to death with it. Too bad they're outta stock... I'd order another just to have as backup (even though I have others I could use anyway). Are they fabric or rubber? Do they kink up much? I'm using some Peavey ones that kink up so bad, I can barely move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catphish Posted September 17, 2007 Members Share Posted September 17, 2007 After submitting the request at Mythbusters, I tend to agree; HOWEVER, it it were broadened to AV equipment as well I bet there would be more of an audience. I concur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Super Bass Posted September 17, 2007 Members Share Posted September 17, 2007 I submitted it. We'll see what happens. It'd be awesome if they did that. They might just, it'd be an excuse for them to make a whole lotta noise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catphish Posted September 17, 2007 Members Share Posted September 17, 2007 On customer actually provided me with a quad chart he used and compared 4 cables I sent him as well as a Planet Waves and Whirlwinf he had already. In his case, after using his own criteria, he preferred the Klotz La Grange cable.Why do you play the amp and bass combination you play? PERSONAL PREFERENCE. Are their differences in Bass tone due to pickups and wood used? Yes, unarguably so. It is the same with guitar cables - personal preference is EVERYTHING. Agian, this is the ONLY time I have sent cables out and differences could not be heard. So I question the methods, results and conduct of the test. I would have been out of business a long time ago if differences could not be heard in cables. You seemed to have ignored my previous post on this forum explaining the electronic interaction between pickups and your guitar cable - it is UNARGUABLE that levels of capacitance and inductance directly affect the resonant frequencies you hear from your bass - if you cannot hear them, then you probably have no business being a bass player...There's a reason why you prefer certain pickups over others - it is no different with a guitar cables - they are key part of the chain and interact directly with your pickups... As i said, we're keeping the technical talk out of this thread, please. Can you get us in touch with any local musician who uses these products and can hear the difference? Could we use them as the test subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassesofalessergod Posted September 17, 2007 Members Share Posted September 17, 2007 As i said, we're keeping the technical talk out of this thread, please. Can you get us in touch with any local musician who uses these products and can hear the difference? Could we use them as the test subject? i know dudes who catphish has used as test subjects before!!!!they generally wake up in an alley somewhere with a headache and a bleeding rectum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted September 17, 2007 Members Share Posted September 17, 2007 Man, talk about a tempest in a teapot! I disagree. We are talking about a company that makes ridiculous claims that cannot be substantiated. This company makes their money by using those claims to sell an overpriced product to musicians. Selling someone a cable for $150 that will perform identically to a $20 cable is wrong, in my opinion. The $20 cable is also made in the USA and has a lifetime warranty. Is it really worth $130 to simply say that you have the best cable money can buy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L. Ron Hoover Posted September 17, 2007 Members Share Posted September 17, 2007 What instrument(s) did you use for the test?:poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rummy Posted September 17, 2007 Members Share Posted September 17, 2007 What instrument(s) did you use for the test? :poke: A passive P bass through Little Mark II into Berg 1x12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bpocall Posted September 17, 2007 Members Share Posted September 17, 2007 What instrument(s) did you use for the test? :poke: A Lakland US Glaub in to a MarkBass LMII and Bergantino single 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassesofalessergod Posted September 17, 2007 Members Share Posted September 17, 2007 A passive P bass through Little Mark II into Berg 1x12. well there's your problem right there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members picker13 Posted September 17, 2007 Members Share Posted September 17, 2007 Your method was not completely blind. First of all, it would have been better had you not told the group which cable was which up front before testing. By introducing the names of the cables, you might be allowing for personal bias of the examinee to enter into play. Secondly, although difficult to guard against, because you knew wich cable was being used, you were not blinded, and subltle changes in how you asked which cable was better may have been transmitted to the group. Although this is less likely, it should be considered as a possible fault to the test. Another flaw in your study is having the bass riff repeated played live. It would have been better to have rigged some type of recording, as each time the riff was played, it WILL be different. Still, if you truly randomized the cable use, you might have been able to reduce the effect of differences in how the riff was played. Pesonally, I believe the results of your study. I am not surprised that Lavaman sending several cables to inidivual users will find that his cable is the one they select. They are likely stronly biased towards his cable by self testing. But just knowing the physics and electronics, and the general discrimination ability of what people can and cannot hear, to my mind, it may be near impossible to hear a difference between cables. There is a test in the Bass FAQ forum where wireless units are tested electonically over the frequency range of the instrument, and that might have been interesting to reproduce. But still, can you hear those differnece you can see on a diagram? I don't think so. What is important in cable selection is functionality, and the durability of the jacks/connector pieces. Human hearing is a complicated process. And one has to consider ambient noise (the "floor"), loudness of the tone being tested (the signal to noise ratio), and the effect of dampening over time (earlier tests will have a greater signal to noise ratio than later tests due to the ear's natural process of dampening when exposed to loudness). Directionality will play a roll as will teh attentiveness of the examinee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted September 17, 2007 Moderators Share Posted September 17, 2007 What instrument(s) did you use for the test? :poke: The main testing was done with a Fender P bass. Other instruments were used as the day went on, but after the first few tests most people lost any interest in the testing because of their complete lack of ability to distinguish the cables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators isaac42 Posted September 17, 2007 Moderators Share Posted September 17, 2007 On customer actually provided me with a quad chart he used and compared 4 cables I sent him as well as a Planet Waves and Whirlwinf he had already. In his case, after using his own criteria, he preferred the Klotz La Grange cable.Why do you play the amp and bass combination you play? PERSONAL PREFERENCE. Are their differences in Bass tone due to pickups and wood used? Yes, unarguably so. It is the same with guitar cables - personal preference is EVERYTHING. Agian, this is the ONLY time I have sent cables out and differences could not be heard. So I question the methods, results and conduct of the test. I would have been out of business a long time ago if differences could not be heard in cables. You seemed to have ignored my previous post on this forum explaining the electronic interaction between pickups and your guitar cable - it is UNARGUABLE that levels of capacitance and inductance directly affect the resonant frequencies you hear from your bass - if you cannot hear them, then you probably have no business being a bass player...There's a reason why you prefer certain pickups over others - it is no different with a guitar cables - they are key part of the chain and interact directly with your pickups... And you ignore my requests for actual data instead of anecdotes. You condemn T'broom's test, while providing nothing but hearsay in its place. You explain why, theoretically, capacitance and other electronic interactions might make a difference, but provide no evidence that they actually do. You impugn the integrity and hearing of those who did the tests, and now it appears that you insult me as well. You're a real class act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catphish Posted September 17, 2007 Members Share Posted September 17, 2007 i know dudes who catphish has used as test subjects before!!!! they generally wake up in an alley somewhere with a headache and a bleeding rectum. Aw don't be jealous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted September 17, 2007 Moderators Share Posted September 17, 2007 Still, if you truly randomized the cable use, you might have been able to reduce the effect of differences in how the riff was played. We did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted September 17, 2007 Moderators Share Posted September 17, 2007 LavaMan, there is an offer in this thread for some additional testing in KC. Can I send your cables to mlwarriner for additional testing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members frunobulax Posted September 17, 2007 Members Share Posted September 17, 2007 ... I don't believe it is drastic enough to be noticed in a band setting, ... BINGO! BINGO! I GOT BINGO!! you nailed it, bpo. playing in a live setting, and especially using a DI thru the PA, a cable isn't going to make one tiny little sound crap of a difference. most times (99%?) the bass sounds like total ass out front. as BOALG said, an interesting test would be using a highend cable for recording. is there a discernable difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members misterhinkydink Posted September 17, 2007 Members Share Posted September 17, 2007 I disagree. We are talking about a company that makes ridiculous claims that cannot be substantiated. This company makes their money by using those claims to sell an overpriced product to musicians. Selling someone a cable for $150 that will perform identically to a $20 cable is wrong, in my opinion.The $20 cable is also made in the USA and has a lifetime warranty. Is it really worth $130 to simply say that you have the best cable money can buy? It's the buyer's business what they spend their money on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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