When kids won't listen to their Elders (playin for the door...)

[Mr. Botch]

One of my band members booked us in a SLC club that recently changed ownership. The club gave us 200 tickets to give to everyone we knew, we were to receive $3 for each ticket turned in. I've been playing for over 25 years now, and NEVER have had a "play-for-the-door" gig go well. I've reiterated that many times to the two new guys in our band, but to no avail.

 

Well, we set up in the club. The club has their own sound system and lights, so we avoided that much work. We had to use the "house" sound man, but our own sound man Danny stuck around, patched in, and ran our in-ear monitors for us. During FOH soundcheck, the soundman asked for a kick, and the volume almost bounced two of us off the stage. DAMN IT WAS LOUD!!! I actually turned my in-ears completely off halfway through the night, and just used them as ear plugs. It was apparent that keys weren't a priority in the mix, hopefully I was playing in the right keys on the songs.

 

We actually had a great crowd. Every seat was filled, the dance floor had folks on it every single song all night long, and a LOT of liquor was sold. Take for the night? $55. That's for all five of us, not $55 each. That doesn't even include the fact that, since so many of the crowd were fans of ours and not members of the club itself (this is Utah, private club yada yada), every person walking in the door, although they avoided the $5 entrance fee, still had to buy a club membership; so the club owner made out like a bandit.

 

To add insult to injury, as we were packing up in the parking lot at the end of the evening, the owner jumps in his truck, backs up, and backs OVER Danny's PA snake! He didn't seem too concerned about it either.

 

I think our two younger members will avoid booking us for the door in the future now, but it would sure be nice if us older guys' past experiences were heeded, or counted for something. I'm getting too old for this bull{censored}.

[mrcpro]

It's been years, but playing for the door can work if you are fairly certain what the take will be from prior experience, and if you have your own people at the door either with a counter, or better yet, actually collecting the cover. And I've played places where the owner doesn't want to hassle with running the door, or has commitment issues regarding pay. But like I said, it's been years.

 

I have a feeling that all is not lost here. One thing all club owners have in common is making money. If you had a good night, you will be approached for future work. This time, you can set the terms.

[THBv2.0]

 

Originally posted by Mr. Botch One of my band members booked us in a SLC club that recently changed ownership. The club gave us 200 tickets to give to everyone we knew, we were to receive $3 for each ticket turned in. I've been playing for over 25 years now, and NEVER have had a "play-for-the-door" gig go well. I've reiterated that many times to the two new guys in our band, but to no avail. Well, we set up in the club. The club has their own sound system and lights, so we avoided that much work. We had to use the "house" sound man, but our own sound man Danny stuck around, patched in, and ran our in-ear monitors for us. During FOH soundcheck, the soundman asked for a kick, and the volume almost bounced two of us off the stage. DAMN IT WAS LOUD!!! I actually turned my in-ears completely off halfway through the night, and just used them as ear plugs. It was apparent that keys weren't a priority in the mix, hopefully I was playing in the right keys on the songs. We actually had a great crowd. Every seat was filled, the dance floor had folks on it every single song all night long, and a LOT of liquor was sold. Take for the night? $55. That's for all five of us, not $55 each. That doesn't even include the fact that, since so many of the crowd were fans of ours and not members of the club itself (this is Utah, private club yada yada), every person walking in the door, although they avoided the $5 entrance fee, still had to buy a club membership; so the club owner made out like a bandit. To add insult to injury, as we were packing up in the parking lot at the end of the evening, the owner jumps in his truck, backs up, and backs OVER Danny's PA snake! He didn't seem too concerned about it either. I think our two younger members will avoid booking us for the door in the future now, but it would sure be nice if us older guys' past experiences were heeded, or counted for something. I'm getting too old for this bull{censored}.

 

 

Oh, man, you got {censored}ed HARD!

 

This is exactly why I don't do pay to play. This thread should get stickied.

[twostone]

I think I made 5$ once doing the door I'll never do it again I just turn down a Club owner who uses the same method but we supply the PA and lights I gave him one those old saying "don't call me I'll call you" he's still waiting.

[axe2 2001]

Ya, that blows, we did that ONCE and got screwed. We did make a little more than that but nowhere near what we were used to. And club owners really are all about the $$$$. One place I got to be pretty good friends with the guy and we always drew a huge crowd at his place. He told me straight up that he booked us according to when his taxes were due!

[daddymack]

If the only way to get in the door to a good club is to do the p2p. always have someone from your team watch the door count!

We are going to do this in Pasadena next month, (don't ask...I was against it:mad: ) but I will have someone watch the door along with their 'staffer/counter'...I know too many horror stories about clubs ripping bands on headcounts

[JBJ]

 

Originally posted by daddymack If the only way to get in the door to a good club is to do the p2p. always have someone from your team watch the door count! We are going to do this in Pasadena next month, (don't ask...I was against it:mad: ) but I will have someone watch the door along with their 'staffer/counter'...I know too many horror stories about clubs ripping bands on headcounts

 

 

either way you're not going to walk into the managers office at the end of the night say "our guyc ounted 50 more heads than yours" and he's going to go " ohh sorry take some more cash"

[mrcpro]

 

Originally posted by JBJ either way you're not going to walk into the managers office at the end of the night say "our guyc ounted 50 more heads than yours" and he's going to go " ohh sorry take some more cash"

 

 

No no...here's how this one works. Up front, and in a very friendly way, you tell the owner/manager that you value his friendship and to avoid any conflict when the night's over, you'd like to put someone with the doorman to count along with him. You want the doorman and your counter to get along. A pretty girlfriend works best, but anyone who's open and friendly is a good choice. A hand counter is essential though. They should both be counting together and on the same page throughout the night. Communication is important. Conflicts are to be avoided...and I've never had one if this is set up right.

 

I've also worked rooms in the past where the owner is a good friend and fan of the band, and we've never had to do anything like this. These have always been guarantee against the door nights, and by doing an informal room count from the stage have never had reason to doubt the take. So it all depends on the job...

[MarkGifford-1]

If your band is hot, you can make a killing at the door.

 

We have a few local acts who rarely make less than $1500/night doing this. Sometimes more like $2500-3000.

 

There's no owner on earth who'll guarantee you that much, so once you get to a certain level it's become almost de riguer around here.

 

You need to be fairly certain that you can put several hundred few the door, every gig, before you try this, as the risk is ALL on the band.

 

MG

[squealie]

Originally posted by MarkGifford-1 There's no owner on earth who'll guarantee you that much,

 

Once a band gets that hot, around here anyway, the club DEFINATELY starts to straight-pay. And then charges twice as much at the door.

 

The club will always want to pay whatever is less.

[bonscottvocals]

1. Always put your own person at the door if you can. Regardless of how big you are, you are putting your trust into the integrity of the employee collecting the money.

 

2. Playing for the door is OK, so long as you are not guaranteeing ticket sales (usually). That's a pay-to-play situation, and that's another thread. If the club owner only wants to pay you the door, then the message is that the owner does not want to guarantee you anything.

 

3. A door gig now and again can break your band into new areas. While you may not get a huge crowd, these days things are different. People have cell phones and they call their friends and invite them out to see 'hot' acts. Also, word-of-mouth can really bring you a larger crowd each time (assuming you keep the suck factor low).

 

4. Don't argue about the door take, as much as you may have been screwed, you come off as a jerk to the owner, and most club owners talk. A bad rep is a bad rep, and you don't need that for a few $$'s - no matter how angry you are.

 

5. Always play your best, regardless of what income you might get or the # of people in the club. It's not about you, it's about them having a good time.

 

I play gigs that pay quite a wide variety of guaranteed amounts, anywhere from $50 to $500, but I also pay for the door now and again in order to get gigs and meet people in new areas. It may not pay much (sometimes less than gas to get there), but for me, it's about breaking ground and making new contacts. You have to decide what's right for you and your situation.

[Danny (NS::U)]

I'm the Danny that Botch was talking about.

 

I was pretty mad at the end of the gig, especially because the FOH guy made everything face-crackingly loud, and seemed to not care about the feedback he was getting. (Why not pull everything down 3 - 6 dB and not have the blasted feedback? Maybe?)

 

He also complained that the guitar player had too much low end in his tone, which I think might have had more to do with the enormous low end "hump" he had dialed into the main EQ than JP having a bad tone. The guy had four 18" JBL subs and two dual 15" SRX boxes - I can't imagine that he needed to boost anything in any frequency range.

 

I also overheard one of the club's guys talking to a promoter about the snake I had run for the band:

 

"Yeah, they're rock stars."

 

Well, pardon me. Let's not try to do anything right, or go the extra mile. Absolutely. Sure. Let's ridicule anybody who even tries to put a little extra quality into a show. (For the record, my gear is "not that special," but it has always gotten the job done for me.)

 

I am very glad that we're not going back to that place ever again.

 

I will also say (for the record) that my venue is paid by the door. However, if the door is bad, then my night (as the FOH engineer) is as bad as the band's, because I am paid by the door as well. (We don't sell beer or anything - we're just about the music, period.)

[THBv2.0]

Why did you need to bring in your own snake?

 

[Mr. Botch]

Hey Danny. I was actually kinda snickering about the FOH guy asking JP to turn his bass down, he always has the bass knob on his amp turned to 9.5 and I always thought it was a great guitar tone for a three piece band, but we're a four piece. Always wondered if you carved some of that excess bass out when you're doing FOH for us.

Danny brought his snake so he could patch in, and he ran our in-ear monitors from his board from the side of the stage. That's the "going-the-extra-mile" Danny talked about, but the FOH was so damn loud I just ended up using my in-ears as hearing protection (ie., "Off").

So we're rock stars, eh? Guess I better pick out a Rolls this afternoon...

[Redsand187]

Can I have your autograph?

 

Kinda of BS that they would act like you guys going the extra mile is a bad thing. I guess they have no vision of expansion or upping the quality of their shows. I'm one to always strive for more, even if what you have is pretty damn good. I guess these people are content with not much. Good for them, makes getting what we want easier.

[Frank Prince]

Originally posted by Mr. Botch One of my band members booked us in a SLC club that recently changed ownership. The club gave us 200 tickets to give to everyone we knew, we were to receive $3 for each ticket turned in. I've been playing for over 25 years now, and NEVER have had a "play-for-the-door" gig go well. I've reiterated that many times to the two new guys in our band, but to no avail. Well, we set up in the club. The club has their own sound system and lights, so we avoided that much work. We had to use the "house" sound man, but our own sound man Danny stuck around, patched in, and ran our in-ear monitors for us. During FOH soundcheck, the soundman asked for a kick, and the volume almost bounced two of us off the stage. DAMN IT WAS LOUD!!! I actually turned my in-ears completely off halfway through the night, and just used them as ear plugs. It was apparent that keys weren't a priority in the mix, hopefully I was playing in the right keys on the songs. We actually had a great crowd. Every seat was filled, the dance floor had folks on it every single song all night long, and a LOT of liquor was sold. Take for the night? $55. That's for all five of us, not $55 each. That doesn't even include the fact that, since so many of the crowd were fans of ours and not members of the club itself (this is Utah, private club yada yada), every person walking in the door, although they avoided the $5 entrance fee, still had to buy a club membership; so the club owner made out like a bandit. To add insult to injury, as we were packing up in the parking lot at the end of the evening, the owner jumps in his truck, backs up, and backs OVER Danny's PA snake! He didn't seem too concerned about it either. I think our two younger members will avoid booking us for the door in the future now, but it would sure be nice if us older guys' past experiences were heeded, or counted for something. I'm getting too old for this bull{censored}.

These "deals" seem like a screwjob to me.

 

I did one with a band last year where the venue gave us 2 for 1 drink tickets to give away to everyone. No cover, no guarantee for the band, we just get $5 for each ticket turned in.

 

The trouble was, the place was a sleazy dump with a bad rep, so some of our crowd wouldn't go there for any reason. Worse, the owner quoted some bogus law about "giving liquor away" and said we weren't allowed to give anyone the tickets at the bar, they had to have them already when they showed up.

 

I looked into it, and found out that 2 for 1 drink tickets were illegal in this city no matter where you got them.

 

This guy just wanted to pay us per head for people we specifally brought to the bar, and nothing else. I felt like telling everyone to come, order 1 coke, and then drink water for the rest of the night.

[madubuisson]

We got paid for the first time at our last gig...$10. Not each, that's for the whole band. And the place was packed! Hey, at least that's enough for 2 beers (although, we do each get one free drink, how generous).

[Outkaster]

 

Originally posted by MarkGifford-1 If your band is hot, you can make a killing at the door. We have a few local acts who rarely make less than $1500/night doing this. Sometimes more like $2500-3000. There's no owner on earth who'll guarantee you that much, so once you get to a certain level it's become almost de riguer around here. You need to be fairly certain that you can put several hundred few the door, every gig, before you try this, as the risk is ALL on the band. MG

 

 

Mark what acts are you talking about ...Atlas, Skycoasters?

[sideswipedv]

this may seem stupid but we have worked out a pay scale based on fire marshal capacity for a given club. What we will do to work with the venue is allow them to include door and tips (collected at the bar) just so long as we walk out the door with our price all is good. So for instance if we are asking 350 for the night and they collect 125 at the door and 25 in tips then they kick in the 200 and we go home with our 350. Seems to be working out well in our area. FWIW 350 is what we charge for small club ranging up to a 60 person capacity. In our case there are a pile of those size places here so we stay as busy as we want to.

 

We have never played anywhere bigger than the 600 a night rate so i guess we are just beginners. Someday when we grow up we are gonna try for bigger places but for now we are just trying to get our show, confidence and scheduling on track

[MarkGifford-1]

 

Originally posted by Outkaster Mark what acts are you talking about ...Atlas, Skycoasters?

 

 

Uncle Plum would be the main one, right now.

 

Before that, East Coast Connection was really hot.

 

Nik and The Nice Guys have always done VERY well, in all their permutations, too.

 

Back in the day, Cheater would make $2-3000 on a weekend night, from the door, sometimes WAY more.

 

MG

[Roy Brooks]

I don't play for the door.