Is bass necessary?

[Mr 5150]

Originally posted by TheGammy Is bass really necessary? Discuss.

 

Depends if you plan on playing another one bites the dust or not...................

[arf-boy]

 

Originally posted by rhat The whole instrumentation thing really all depends on the act. I know duo that sound great ,, but typically its a deal with a very talented member than can hold down a couple roles. ... Good vocals with harmony is pretty well a must for a band with more than one person. rat

 

 

Agreed. I play in a duo with a woman on acoustic who's a fabulous finger-picker and great singer. I sing, too, and play a regular hollow-body electric or electric baritone mostly, with a bit of mandolin.

 

Even simple arrangements can have great texture and depth, especially if one of us uses a capo.

 

But in a rock 'n' roll format, the bass is needed more. I've "gotten away" with using the baritone when there's been a good keyboard player to help hold down the bottom end.

[Outkaster]

It is a stupid question. I do not why people are still answering this guy. Who would ask that?

[cooterbrown]

Bass is pretty necessary to this band:

 

 

 

This band, too:

 

 

Also these guys:

 

 

I think these guys would chime in, as well:

 

 

...and what about this band?

 

[Lee Flier]

 

Originally posted by Outkaster It is a stupid question. I do not why people are still answering this guy. Who would ask that?

 

 

Why is it a stupid question? It seemed sincere. And there have been a few notable bands like the White Stripes, House of Freaks, even the Doors had no actual bass player.

[Lee Flier]

 

Originally posted by TheGammy Seriously a lot of the time bass plays a minimal role, and the audience (generally) pay no attention to the bassist.

 

 

It's true that the audience doesn't usually pay attention but if the bass dropped out they would certainly notice.

 

IMO, even in a band where the bass lines aren't prevalent, bass (or lack of it) affects the way the other musicians perform and it affects audience response.

 

 

Take Metallica's 'And Justice For All' album. This famously has no audible bass, but most people will agree this album is a metal classic.

 

 

Well I think it's considered a classic in spite of the lack of bass, not because of it. It would've been a better record with bass, in my opinion.

 

But it really depends on the band. Some lineups would work all right with no bass, many won't. If you think you can have a band with no bass player, just try it - it might work for you and it might not.

[way2fat]

 

Originally posted by rhat I dont think a bass is a must ,,but i do think a bass adds so much to the sound that most acts are far better when they have a bass ...... The whole instrumentation thing really all depends on the act. I know duo that sound great ,, but typically its a deal with a very talented member than can hold down a couple roles. An example would be a guitar player ,, with a 12 string ,, and a second guy who plays congas, blows harp , sings harmony and plays steel drum. Or a duo with a very talented guitar player and a bass ... that has really good with the chord voicings and is able to slip in a few accents of lead along the way. Even great power trios tend to have holes in their sound you can drive a mack truck though. Cream was a great band ,, with lots of talent but the lack of a full time rhythm gave the group a thin sound alot of the time . My personal favorite for a band is , drums , keys, lead guitar, bass and horns..... Nothing quite gives you that full house sound like a full on set up like that. Good vocals with harmony is pretty well a must for a band with more than one person. rat

 

 

Cream? Lack of full time rythym? Huh?

[way2fat]

 

Originally posted by Roy Brooks Yet another thing I at least somewhat disagree with you about. Though I understand your point. I guess it depends on what kind of blues you are playing or what sort of sound you are going after. But I have seen T-Model Ford and Super Chikkan play with just a drummer and they did just fine.

 

 

Hound Dog Taylor, too, if I recall correctly.

[phildogger]

 

Originally posted by Lee Flier Why is it a stupid question? It seemed sincere. And there have been a few notable bands like the White Stripes, House of Freaks, even the Doors had no actual bass player.

 

 

With the exception of the Doors, I would hardly call those bands notable.

 

Ask Geddy Lee if Bass is needed.

 

Now ask some Jazz Trios if Guitar is needed.

 

This is the stupidest question ever.

[BATCAT]

Originally posted by phildogger This is the stupidest question ever.

 

Huh?

 

Wow, look... there's lots of ways to make good music. Part of what's fun about rock music is there's few hard and fast rules, and sometimes the best results come from doing thing the "wrong" way.

 

Sometimes I'm amazed at how dogmatic musicians can be.

[albert visick]

a couple of people mentioned John Paul Jones / Led Zeppelin, and while i do agree with the points made, when JPJ played keys / organ / triple neck mando-guitar / whatever else on stage, he'd use a pedal bass to cover the bass notes (which had obviously to be simplified). so they were doing not too shabby without the bass on occasion.

 

ActionSquid also made a good point that the players cannot just play a song the way it was intended to have the bass part. the song i mentioned in my previous post (radiohead's optimistic), has the guitar continuously hitting the open 6th string throughout, so that it does not exactly sound too thin (it works as it is). i think many of us exorcise this whenever we play a solo acoustic and have to rearrange the songs.

 

as far as the current bands such as whitestripes, dresden dolls etc, i think that if you can make any "deficiency" (= lack of normal components) sound like it is totally intentional, then that's a win for their part.

[rhat]

 

Originally posted by phildogger With the exception of the Doors, I would hardly call those bands notable. Ask Geddy Lee if Bass is needed. Now ask some Jazz Trios if Guitar is needed. This is the stupidest question ever.

 

 

 

You really cant put the doors in the no bass class anyway .. .hell they had keys and no doubt foot pedals on the B3 ......rat

[Lee Flier]

 

Originally posted by rhat You really cant put the doors in the no bass class anyway .. .hell they had keys and no doubt foot pedals on the B3

 

 

Manzarek didn't play a B3, and he didn't use foot pedals. He did use a left hand bass keyboard, but it really doesn't sound like a bass. There's a sparseness about their early sound where you can definitely tell there's no bassist, but it worked for them.

 

That said, they did use a session bass player on their last couple of records.

 

I did used to catch a killer band in L.A. that had no bass player, but a B3 player who played foot pedals, and he really did sound convincingly like a bass player. That was a 6 piece band too though and had a lot to fill out the sound!

[Spillback]

If you can make yourself sound good and play music without a bass player then more power to you. After all, isn't that what we all strive for? I just feel that no matter what, the bass is an integral part of a rock band.

 

BTW, to the one who commented about Cream sounding "thin", I don't know what you mean by "thin". But for me, Cream was one of the prime examples of how a 3-piece band should be. 3 very talented and technically gifted musicians complementing each other. Same as Rush, same as the Police.

[MarshallStack]

In a world without Bass

There's nothing to be

It's no place for me

[peckhart]

Originally posted by vanlatte Often the bass is like a good soundman; you only notice when it is not there.

 

I agree with this. Last week our bass player couldn't make it to practice. We play modern rock. It was very obvious where the bass line pretty much just follows the bass note of the chord progression. We could play through those songs with no problem. We got to some where it was like "Holy crap, where the hell is the bass and where are we in this song?!"

 

As far as the Metallica AJFA thing.....I recently noticed the lack of audible bass too. I guess for years I was so tuned into the guitar I didn't consciously listen for the bass. Threw the disc in a few months ago and was like, wtf? I don't hear any bass. He must not do anything but the bass note of the chords in the same exact time.

 

And I have always hated Korn's bass. It sounds like a big rubber band that only is capable of two notes. Same two notes in every song. It would sound better w/out it.

[rhat]

 

Originally posted by Lee Flier Manzarek didn't play a B3, and he didn't use foot pedals. He did use a left hand bass keyboard, but it really doesn't sound like a bass. There's a sparseness about their early sound where you can definitely tell there's no bassist, but it worked for them. That said, they did use a session bass player on their last couple of records. I did used to catch a killer band in L.A. that had no bass player, but a B3 player who played foot pedals, and he really did sound convincingly like a bass player. That was a 6 piece band too though and had a lot to fill out the sound!

 

 

 

 

What kind of keys did the doors use? I cant imagine a group like the doors using the combo organs of that era ..... as I recall there were really only two on the market back then ,,, vox and a farfisa ..or however you spell it ... the vox was indeed the better of the two ,,,,,

 

update back from doing a little search ,,, he used a vox ..... Hmmm thats funny. hell thats what i was playing back then ..... The vox did have drawbars and could get near to the hammond sound ,,with a small leslie that split off the highs and double bottom fender bassmen ......I pitched the one i had in the trash literlly a couple years ago ,,,,,,while i am sure people so collect that kind of stuff ,,,, They were a real booger to keep operating and mine had a key that was doing the sick seal vox warble ... and just said screw it ,, and pitched it out ......I dont feel bad at all about it ,,,, i sold my fender rhodes as well .... they were a beast to play due to heavy key action .....I will pick up another keyboard one of these days ,,,,, the modern stuff has it way over anything they had back then ,,, rat

[theAntihero]

 

Originally posted by rhat Even great power trios tend to have holes in their sound you can drive a mack truck though. Cream was a great band ,, with lots of talent but the lack of a full time rhythm gave the group a thin sound alot of the time .

 

 

I disagree and i think you will find most do too. Cream had a lot of groove and swung very well. Sunshine of Your Love is a great example of this as was one of the best bass lines in music IMHO Born Under a Bad Sign. Power Trios dont so much have "holes that you can drive a Mack Truck thru" as they have dynamics, its rock music stripped to its most basic primal level and i would much rather have dynamics and great musicianship than a wall of downtuned Nu-metal.

 

To answer the original post it depends. I have heard bands where the bass just played with the kick in the background that really didnt add much, but really a great walking bassline, ar a great bassline in general, can make or break a song. AJFA is a good albulm, but not because there isnt any bass. What would songs like the aforementioned Born Under a Bad Sign, or Dazed and Confused be without the bassline? The answer is nothing.

[rhat]

 

Originally posted by theAntihero I disagree and i think you will find most do too. Cream had a lot of groove and swung very well. Sunshine of Your Love is a great example of this as was one of the best bass lines in music IMHO Born Under a Bad Sign. Power Trios dont so much have "holes that you can drive a Mack Truck thru" as they have dynamics, its rock music stripped to its most basic primal level and i would much rather have dynamics and great musicianship than a wall of downtuned Nu-metal. To answer the original post it depends. I have heard bands where the bass just played with the kick in the background that really didnt add much, but really a great walking bassline, ar a great bassline in general, can make or break a song. AJFA is a good albulm, but not because there isnt any bass. What would songs like the aforementioned Born Under a Bad Sign, or Dazed and Confused be without the bassline? The answer is nothing.

 

 

 

 

I dont like metal and i didnt like cream ,,, yea i am old enough to have been playing when the so called power trios came out. I guess thats the good thing about music ,,, everyone has their own personal favorites .... sunshine of your love has to be the most murdered song in rock and roll...... i cant count the number of times i have heard that song killed ,,,, I would guess power trio's are still killing it today .. rat

[FlogRock]

I wonder what thriftyshirt has to say about this...

[matt greeno]

Bass is not necessary if you cant hear it anyway. If your bass guy is a root rider and you have two guitarists, they wont be able to hear him unless he turns up really loud. But the bass doesnt always follow the guitar. With Flea, the bass is actually more important and it sounds more amazing, and he's more famous than John. It's a very melodic instrument if your bassist is playing something different instead of just mirroring the guitar, even if its just fingerstyle. Flea does both finger and slap style, and many melodic bassists are famous for driving their band's sound, like Matt from Rancid, the guy from Quicksand, JPJ, etc... Very important in hip-hop, especially for bands like the Roots and Tribe Called Quest. Imagine the song "Buggin Out" by the Tribe without that bassline? People pay attention as long as you're playing that instrument like you own it. For my band, we'll have like a break or intro where it's only the bass playing. I do a little slap/pop (I love popping), but not to the point where it's a {censored}ing funk-RHCP band. I also do backup vocals and jump on stage like Epitaph-type punk bands do. If you have good stage presence, that helps.

 

And bass does definitely get the people dancing, for all types of music. You ever go to a club, and they're playing the rap music, and you hear that BOOMING beat? That's what the people are getting freaky and grinding to.

[Blackwatch]

I gig with just a drummer and I like it alot. I would prefer a bass player but I've had so much trouble with them that this is just easier.

It is surprising that people come up every show and say they don't miss the bass at all. I do try to mix and play to the low end, & there are some thin spots, but over all I've been much more successful without a bass than with.....

 

And the money only gets split 2 ways......

 

But I wouldn't dream of recording with out one.

[way2fat]

 

Originally posted by Lee Flier Manzarek didn't play a B3, and he didn't use foot pedals. He did use a left hand bass keyboard, but it really doesn't sound like a bass. There's a sparseness about their early sound where you can definitely tell there's no bassist, but it worked for them. That said, they did use a session bass player on their last couple of records. I did used to catch a killer band in L.A. that had no bass player, but a B3 player who played foot pedals, and he really did sound convincingly like a bass player. That was a 6 piece band too though and had a lot to fill out the sound!

 

 

The Rascals didn't have a bass player. BTW, I saw a retrospective of thr Ed Sullivan Show and the Rascals played better than everyone i sw on it. Stones, Beatles, Who, Doors, Kinks......The Rascals were tight as a tick.

[way2fat]

And if you get to see their old Ed Sullivan clips you'll see where AC/DC got their fashion from.

[rhat]

 

Originally posted by way2fat ......The Rascals were tight as a tick.

 

 

 

You got that right .... they had the full boat sound and great harmony in their vocals. The cryin shames were another group from that era that really had things screwed down tight. How many of you younger guys are covering that kind of stuff ? when i made the comment that you could drive a mack truck though cream ,,, it was groups like the young rascals and cryin shames that make my point about cream.....The only place you hear groups that tight these days is in country music ..... diamond rio and asleep at the wheel are modern day groups that i think have tight pretty well nailed down ...... rat