Members New Trail Posted November 25, 2006 Members Share Posted November 25, 2006 We're a five piece classic rock band with, let's just say, some issues. First off the bass player, drummer and keyboard player will not play the standard bar dance songs so our song list consists of good, if slightly lesser known, less danceable songs from the classic rock genre. No Mustang Sally or Free Bird for us! Also, the other guitar player (let's call him Rico) and I own the PA and the lights and transport and set them up, as well as our own gear. The others, for the most part, move and set up just their personal equipment. They DO sometimes help load after the gig. Rico and I also take care of all of the booking (so far), organizing rehearsals, and getting most of the material together. Now, all of this wouldn't be so bad but the other three members are the complainers in the band as well, about the material, or if a gig doesn't go well, or if we're playing an outside gig and there's a chance of rain, or if we gig too little, or if we gig too much, you get the picture. Anyway, we're at a standstill right now. We've picked a list of songs to learn but Rico has basically stopped sending emails to get things going, so nothing is happening. I think he wants to see what will happen if he doesn't take it upon himself to get things done. The other guys would, it seems, just let things collapse. I have sent a couple of emails to try to get something going and a rehearsal organized, but so far with limited response. I knew something was up, and last nite Rico told me he had set down severals times to email us that he was quitting the band, but changed his mind at the last minute. He's still trying to decide what he wants to do. I let him know that I don't want the band to be over and I don't want him to quit. We are basically a democratic band and we don't really have a leader, but all bands have to have someone to push things along, and in this band it's Rico, whether he wants it to be or not. Now, I really want this band to continue playing together and my question is: What can I do, or SHOULD I do, if anything, to convince or help Rico get his interest back and start doing what he needs to do to keep the band going? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fiery Furnace Posted November 25, 2006 Members Share Posted November 25, 2006 Playing covers is unnatural, and subconsciously no musician wants to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crackpot Posted November 25, 2006 Members Share Posted November 25, 2006 I am kind of taking control of a band for the first time in many years (it is SO much easier being a sideman) so I'm experimenting with financial solutions to this kind of problem -- hoping that this will keep things on a strictly business level and we can avoid anyone getting fed up to the point your guitar player (understandably) is. 1) whoever books the gig gets 10% off the top -- cheap for an agent's fee 2) roadie fee for setup of common equipment (in our case, PA only) is split by the roadies (the band members who do the work) The rest of the money is split evenly. If anyone else has any ideas, PLEASE add to this list -- espeicially if you are past the experimental phase and have found things that work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 25, 2006 Members Share Posted November 25, 2006 I don't blame him. I'd quit too. You don't have a 'demcoratic" band, you have a twisted form of socialism, where the labor of the few benefit those less willing to work, but they still want an equal say in complaining. I'd tell them to piss off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ihateyouguys Posted November 25, 2006 Members Share Posted November 25, 2006 doesn't sound like rico is the problem, he's just tired of dealing with the problems caused by the other members. You and him are the ones carrying the load - in more ways than one. You need to let him know you're on his side and take control of the band, even if that means shutting down the band while you find new members. I'd rather keep one person that does the work and has a good attitude than 3 people who add nothing but problems and complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members THBv2.0 Posted November 25, 2006 Members Share Posted November 25, 2006 Originally posted by ihateyouguys I'd rather keep one person that does the work and has a good attitude than 3 people who add nothing but problems and complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitar Centaur Posted November 25, 2006 Members Share Posted November 25, 2006 Originally posted by Crackpot I am kind of taking control of a band for the first time in many years (it is SO much easier being a sideman) so I'm experimenting with financial solutions to this kind of problem -- hoping that this will keep things on a strictly business level and we can avoid anyone getting fed up to the point your guitar player (understandably) is.1) whoever books the gig gets 10% off the top -- cheap for an agent's fee2) roadie fee for setup of common equipment (in our case, PA only) is split by the roadies (the band members who do the work)The rest of the money is split evenly.If anyone else has any ideas, PLEASE add to this list -- espeicially if you are past the experimental phase and have found things that work. That's actually a sweet idea. Getting everyone to agree to it will be the hard part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cooterbrown Posted November 25, 2006 Members Share Posted November 25, 2006 We've been known to play "sittin' on the dock of the pay" to band members who didn't participate load-in and load-out without good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kuhnfyoozed Posted November 25, 2006 Members Share Posted November 25, 2006 Originally posted by ihateyouguys doesn't sound like rico is the problem, he's just tired of dealing with the problems caused by the other members.You and him are the ones carrying the load - in more ways than one. You need to let him know you're on his side and take control of the band, even if that means shutting down the band while you find new members.I'd rather keep one person that does the work and has a good attitude than 3 people who add nothing but problems and complaints. Very wise advice. You'll be able to replace the complainers, but it will be hard to find another guy like "Rico" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members salislore Posted November 25, 2006 Members Share Posted November 25, 2006 I also say you and Rico should go start another band. Find new guys that bring more to the table than bitchin and moaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HuskerDude Posted November 25, 2006 Members Share Posted November 25, 2006 Sounds like a miserable band experience. Unless you're making a (quite comfortable) living with this band, it's time to call it a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 26, 2006 Members Share Posted November 26, 2006 Originally posted by LochNessMonster If you're gonna do all the typical snooze classic rock and roll crap do it real well so you can get paid a lot of money to help stave off the boredom of having to play it. Keep Riko and dump the others and start all over again. Advertise and the promise of a good paying steady gig will bring all the mercenaries out of the closet. Use them. You can't expect to have people want to be in a band for the love of it if you're looking to be a top 40 cover band. The thought of having to possibly play the usual drunk bar patron set of music is probably torture to your uncooperative bandmates and they're 'acting out'. Ummm...could you possibly be any more arrogant and condescending? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blackbelt1 Posted November 26, 2006 Members Share Posted November 26, 2006 Originally posted by BlueStrat Ummm...could you possibly be any more arrogant and condescending? I was thinking all his post was missing is a 'thumb up.' ~Blackbelt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meatball Fulton Posted November 27, 2006 Members Share Posted November 27, 2006 Originally posted by New Trail What can I do, or SHOULD I do, if anything, to convince or help Rico get his interest back and start doing what he needs to do to keep the band going? Thanks! You should take on some of his responsibilities so he doesn't have to push so hard. It's time to realize the band isn't as democratic as you'd like to think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6tring Posted November 27, 2006 Members Share Posted November 27, 2006 It's over, it just hasn't happened yet. Cut the 3 complainers and start looking for some new members who will contribute vs distract the energy of the collective band. The time YOU personally are spending worrying about it could be spent advertising and auditioning. Making such a move will also send the message to Rico that you feel his pain. It will solidify your musical alliance with him. He'll know that you value his past efforts and, he'll know you want to keep going if at all possible with him in the band. If you wait til it blows up it'll be a whole new bunch of issues that will consume your time and make the pill even more bitter for Rico regarding the current band situation. Take charge and make the call. Who knows, maybe after getting the word the other 3 members will straighen up. But don't wait too long. Most likely Rico is already looking. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Janx Posted November 27, 2006 Members Share Posted November 27, 2006 Originally posted by ihateyouguys doesn't sound like rico is the problem, he's just tired of dealing with the problems caused by the other members.You and him are the ones carrying the load - in more ways than one. You need to let him know you're on his side and take control of the band, even if that means shutting down the band while you find new members.I'd rather keep one person that does the work and has a good attitude than 3 people who add nothing but problems and complaints. +1000 Seems like the OP and Rico should do lunch, and have a chat. If you do most the work, own most the gear that makes the band viable, you should run the band. Shut down operations, Rico and OP form a new band, and HIRE sidemen to do the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gtrjones Posted November 27, 2006 Members Share Posted November 27, 2006 1 - Tell Rico you're on his side. 2 - Propose to Rico a few changes... that the set list will change, and the band payout will include the booking fee and the set-up surcharge (those are great ideas). If the drummer/bass player/keyboard player want to stay, that's fine. If they don't, that's better. 3 - Put together a network, or a notebook of on-call players so that when one of your bandmates tries to sabatoge things by cancelling at 'the last minute', you'll have a backup ready to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Opus Antics Posted November 27, 2006 Members Share Posted November 27, 2006 Lots of good advice in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newmaxnew Posted November 28, 2006 Members Share Posted November 28, 2006 I know I shouldn't feed the immature little trolls but here goes. I play in both cover and original bands. If you haven't done both you comments are worthless uninformed crap. Playing standard covers for a large crowd that is really having a good time is just as much fun as playing originals to a room full of jaded musicians and getting little to no pay. I play for way better crowds for way better pay in the cover band. The only reason I do the original band is because I like writing and recording music. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members elbow Posted November 28, 2006 Members Share Posted November 28, 2006 Originally posted by newmaxnew I know I shouldn't feed the immature little trolls but here goes. I play in both cover and original bands. If you haven't done both you comments are worthless uninformed crap. Playing standard covers for a large crowd that is really having a good time is just as much fun as playing originals to a room full of jaded musicians and getting little to no pay. I play for way better crowds for way better pay in the cover band. The only reason I do the original band is because I like writing and recording music. Max ?? Did you post to the right thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jjbraunius Posted November 28, 2006 Members Share Posted November 28, 2006 I am pretty much in the same situation except that I am Rico and we're an all original band Well, we had a meeting, got the issues out there and now we have other band members contribute w/ booking as well. We still have a vocalist that hasn't brought in a single cent of equipment to the band and is using our PA and mics and now she wants to quit. My suggestion is to have a meeting and divide the duties between all of you. In that case if Rico would do the booking, you do the promotion and you have the freeloaders carry the band PA and lights to the shows or vice versa. If they are unwilling to do it then consider replacing them and not Rico, if he still has the desire to play. Having to do all the work in a band will get old fast, especially true if it is a cover band. At least in my case the band is a vehicle for my songwriting so more or less when things get ugly I at least see it as either I put up and do it or I program my drum machine and stay in my home studio and get no exposure at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members New Trail Posted November 28, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 28, 2006 Originally posted by newmaxnew I know I shouldn't feed the immature little trolls but here goes.I play in both cover and original bands. If you haven't done both you comments are worthless uninformed crap.Playing standard covers for a large crowd that is really having a good time is just as much fun as playing originals to a room full of jaded musicians and getting little to no pay.I play for way better crowds for way better pay in the cover band. The only reason I do the original band is because I like writing and recording music.Max I agree! And furthermore, I have no interest in playing all originals in a bar situation where people are there to dance and party. I like success. There's nothing wrong with original music, and writing and performing your own original songs is extremely fulfilling, but only when the audience is into it. It's frustrating to put yourself as a band in a situation where you have to try to educate people about what is or is not "good" music (according to you), especially when they don't want to be "educated" in the first place. Similiarly, it's even more frustrating when you are trying to keep a band going when the members are split on a direction i.e. "originals vs. covers", "cool covers vs. non-cool covers", "dance songs vs. songs we like", "what the crowd wants hear vs. what we want to play"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Micky Z Posted November 28, 2006 Members Share Posted November 28, 2006 I thought we were in this business to sell alcohol? And that originals are "good" to the extent that they promote business (i.e., selling alcohol). Or am I naive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members New Trail Posted November 28, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 28, 2006 Originally posted by Micky Z I thought we were in this business to sell alcohol? And that originals are "good" to the extent that they promote business (i.e., selling alcohol). Or am I naive? Are you gigging regularly and doing good business playing originals? If so, then you are not naive, but your situation would be the exception to most that I have experienced, and you should consider yourself lucky. Around here, people still pretty much want to dance to the same old songs that they have been for years. And yes, in most cases we're there to sell drinks (maybe food, too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheLuxLife Posted November 28, 2006 Members Share Posted November 28, 2006 Please don't tell me this is turning into another "ORIGINAL vs. COVERS" thread. -J.P. LUX AND... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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