Members Li Shenron Posted June 18, 2007 Members Share Posted June 18, 2007 I've never heard of anyone looking for a "looser" or sloppier drummer. A good drummer, like a good singer, makes everybody play better and the entire band sound better. I'm trying to think of some form of music where being sloppy on drums will improve the band. I can't think of any. Yeah such thing really doesn't make sense. I'd like to hear from the rest of the band tho... ToneGrail, can you honestly tell us, have they been telling you all the time that they wanted a different style? I'm thinking here, whether perhaps they tried to tell you over and over but you didn't want to change. It's not your fault, but I wouldn't be too hard on them either... Are you perhaps a little obsessed with playing difficult technical things, even if it doesn't fit with the kind of music? I'm asking this because something similar happened to me too, that I was a bit too eager to play shred stuff, and no one else was following me to that direction. The rest of the band wanted something more "easy-listening". Of course the fact that they couldn't technically keep up had its part, but I couldn't blame them (no one wants to play with someone who outshreads the rest of the band!). The fact is, when this sort of contrast happens, there are only two ways out: either you adapt to the band, or you depart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ToneGrail Posted June 18, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 18, 2007 Thanks everyone for your input. You've definitely made me feel a lot better. I'm going to look for some people who are on the same page as me both professionally and artistically. Li: You definitely have some valid points. The bass player and I were what you would call the most "outspoken" people in the group. When we first started the band it was kinda like "let's throw up the chips and let them land where they fall" as far as defining the sound. After we'd been around for a few months, we were starting to get known as a surf / garage band in the vein of the Phantom Surfers or Man or Astroman, a large part due to the combination of my drumming style (similar to Bill Stevenson's from the Descendents) with the songwriting of the singer and the rockabilly influenced guitar player. In short, my style definitely left it's mark on the sound of the band. It wasn't until we went in the studio to record the first CD that the bass player's and my differences became apparent as he insisted that I crash quarter notes on the open high-hat most of the time instead of playing eighth notes on the bell of the ride cymbal, which in my view makes things a lot more crisp sounding and tight and definitely "surfier", not to mention that he was demanding that I dramatically shift the already established style of the band entirely on the fly to something that I thought sounded {censored}ty. Basically, he wanted "boom-chick-boom-chick" pretty much all the way through. I have to say that I won that battle. After we recorded the first CD, I never really heard many complaints from the bass player as we got a lot of compliments on the way it sounded. We proceeded to record 2 more 7 inches after that and the singer and guitarist (who are more less passive non-assertive types but also write most of the songs) would always talk about how much they liked the sound of the band. So to answer your question, I sort of knew that the bass player would have preferred a different (more minimalistic sloshy) style of drumming, but the opportunity to replace me never really came up until now, after I've invested years of time, effort and money in this band. I just thought a little loyalty was in order, especially this late in the game when our sound is already established. Additionally, we've all split the recording costs and practice rental fees an even 4 ways from the very beginning. I'm pretty certain that the singer and the guitar player are pretty much going along with the bass player regardless of the way they actually feel. Either way, I don't want to be in this band any longer as my talents and contributions aren't appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rich4Once Posted June 18, 2007 Members Share Posted June 18, 2007 It appears that you made many contributions other than your precise playing, and they obviously feel that it's all unnecessary. Great! Let them have their band, with a website that's outdated or doesn't load at all, doesn't have many gigs, and sounds like a load of loose crap. Good riddance I say, and they can shove their farewell show up their collective asses, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimmyP Posted June 19, 2007 Members Share Posted June 19, 2007 Post an ad in the locals that says: "I'm no longer with (insert band name here), and am look forward to meeting and playing with musicians who feel that 'tight makes it right' and that 'those who are loose lose'." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Li Shenron Posted June 19, 2007 Members Share Posted June 19, 2007 Ok, now it's more into perspective... It looks just like the bassist doesn't like the music your band is playing. Unfortunately it seems that the rest of the band agrees with him. I'm too of the opinion that from the point of view of the business, it seems a very bad move, since you already had your own original style/niche. Becoming more mainstream is probably not going to help. And about you what can I say... it's like talking to a friend whose girlfriend has just quite him Reasons may be false, and the past might look all "wasted time", but when love is over there's not much to do. At least try not to think of it in terms of wasted time/money/effort, because they were not really wasted. I'm sure you learned a lot, improved your skills, increase your experience and even your reputation. You even have recordings, which are very important for a musician. So just try to be strong and find another girlfriend... I mean band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ToneGrail Posted June 19, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 19, 2007 Ok, now it's more into perspective... It looks just like the bassist doesn't like the music your band is playing. Unfortunately it seems that the rest of the band agrees with him. I'm too of the opinion that from the point of view of the business, it seems a very bad move, since you already had your own original style/niche. Becoming more mainstream is probably not going to help. Well actually, it's quite to the contrary. It was my playing that made them sound more "produced" and more "mainstream" and "accessible or whatever you call it. The new guy just makes them sound like an annoying sloppy garage punk band with absolutely no variation in the beat. And about you what can I say... it's like talking to a friend whose girlfriend has just quite him Reasons may be false, and the past might look all "wasted time", but when love is over there's not much to do. At least try not to think of it in terms of wasted time/money/effort, because they were not really wasted. I'm sure you learned a lot, improved your skills, increase your experience and even your reputation. You even have recordings, which are very important for a musician. So just try to be strong and find another girlfriend... I mean band Well, there is definitely more to it than meets the eye. The other three members are more like a clique. I actually wasn't friends with them before we started the band. I just met them through some other friends in the scene. However, they all grew up together and were all drinking buddies. The singer and the bass player are actually roomates and the guitarist went to high school with the bass player. They all hung out all the time and all live in the same artsy/trendy downtown neighborhood. The only time I ever hung them was when we had shows to play. The new guy is also one of their drinking buddies. So you could say that was a factor in it as well since I was always kind of the "odd person out" socially. I'm the only one with a regular full-time job, living in the suburbs, and a lot older than them. My lifestyle is that of a white collar professional as opposed to the typical transient musician/waiter type thing that they have going on. So I definitely think that played a factor. I also remember the one time I asked our bass player to stay and collect the money on a weeknight show because I had to be at work early the next day. He ended up spending the money to pay his bar tab. When I found out, I expressed my intense disapproval and had to constantly harrass him for an entire month until he finally paid the band fund back. So you can see, there are a bunch of personality conflicts that played a factor as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rich4Once Posted June 20, 2007 Members Share Posted June 20, 2007 After reading that, it only reinforces my opinion that you're much better off without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted June 20, 2007 Members Share Posted June 20, 2007 Well, there is definitely more to it than meets the eye. The other three members are more like a clique. I knew it; you're situation sounded very similar to one I went through with some lame wannabe hippy posers - that's why I posted this: Insecure people aren't hard to figure out though, especially when they have egos.People with huge's egos always place blame on external forces - self-improvement is not in the cards for those types, nor is working together as a unit. Looks like I was spot on. Clique's are the refuge of insecure egomaniacs - good riddance, and stay grounded! Now you know the signs of things to avoid in the future, consider it a valuable lesson for the future! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted June 20, 2007 Members Share Posted June 20, 2007 Invite people from other bands to your farewell show and turn it into an audition. Excellent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Knottyhed Posted June 20, 2007 Members Share Posted June 20, 2007 I've been playing drums with a garage rock band since 2004 as one of the founding members. Yesterday our bass player fired me because my style is too "too precision oriented". He said they had found another drummer with a "looser" (ie - sloppier) feel. As far as I can remember, he and I have been trying to pull the band in opposite directions, with me wanting to sound tighter/crisper and him wanting to sound more "lo-fi garage". I find it kind of ironic that I got axed for being "too good". Apparently the other members feel the same way according to him. As far as I'm concerned it's their loss. If they want to sound like {censored}e then that's their prerogative. I'm sick and tired of fighting with them about it anyways. I handled it quite gracefully and ended things on good terms with them and they're going to have me play a hyped up "farewell show" in the next few weeks, but I'm still kind of annoyed since I spent so much time, money and effort for the last few years putting my heart and soul into this band. I happen to be the one who managed the finances, booked many of the shows, and maintained the website (because everyone else is too lazy or computer illiterate). I know for a fact that {censored} just isn't going to get done since I was the main motivator of the band. LOL - normally drummers that can't keep time are the ones that get fired from bands! Some people are just tools, I was in a band once and was trying to point out that some of our songs sounded like garbage because we weren't playing in sync... the lead singer kept telling me how he liked that 'rough' sound and thought we'd lose the feel of the songs if we played them in time Needless to say, I quit within a couple of months, took the drummer with me and have since found some actual musicians to play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ides of March Posted June 20, 2007 Members Share Posted June 20, 2007 Farewell show? You got more balls than I do. If you are out of the band you should be out of the band, not helping them with their shows. I don't care how good you are and how great your attitude is, bail. Start looking for your next band to play with and let them rot in the dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted June 20, 2007 Members Share Posted June 20, 2007 Farewell show? You got more balls than I do. If you are out of the band you should be out of the band, not helping them with their shows. I don't care how good you are and how great your attitude is, bail. Start looking for your next band to play with and let them rot in the dust. I gotta agree with this one .....As soon as you found out you were moving on, I would get with the process of moving on. If the band has a show and just fired their drummer. I guess they will have to deal with it. Just keep it civil and dont burn bridges with people in the band you may want to play with in the future. But the bottom line is ,, if you were not good enough for them to keep you sure are not good enough to play a fairwell gig. You need to focus on new projects not worry about old ones that are water over the dam. rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted June 20, 2007 Members Share Posted June 20, 2007 Just keep it civil and dont burn bridges with people in the band you may want to play with in the future. {censored}, if it were me I wouldn't care to play with any of those fukwads again - that kind of behavior they pulled has burned the bridge already, IMO. Who gives a {censored} what they think - not saying go out of your way to be an a-hole but why walk on eggshells? Best thing to do is pack your {censored} and leave - what more needs to be said unless someone wants to start in on you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Li10 Posted June 20, 2007 Members Share Posted June 20, 2007 I'd play really well then bring the last song of the set to a halt by playing something with a completely different tempo to what everyone else is playing. So you wouldn't be playing crap, it'd just look like you or the other guys were playing something different and it would be weird. and make it huge sounding, loads of cymbals and stuff, go crazy. Muck up the last song of the set. That'd be great.... but erm, basically what Rat said. actually, it's probably not even a "farewell" gig, just gig they had and needed a drummer for. So they decided to use you as their drummer for that night then kick you out. Not play WITH you, use you. That's what they're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Li10 Posted June 20, 2007 Members Share Posted June 20, 2007 our songs sounded like garbage because we weren't playing in sync... the lead singer kept telling me how he liked that 'rough' sound and thought we'd lose the feel of the songs if we played them in time I hate lead singers when they're like that.... completely oblivious to the crap they are making. Nice one bailing though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted June 20, 2007 Members Share Posted June 20, 2007 Exactly - I can't believe you'd subject yourself to that farewell gig after being canned with no notice... {censored}, if it were me I wouldn't care to play with any of those fukwads again - that kind of behavior they pulled has burned the bridge already, IMO. Who gives a {censored} what they think - not saying go out of your way to be an a-hole but why walk on eggshells? Stupid people tend to run their necks.... no reason to give them any ammo. The musician community in any town is pretty small. Word travels pretty fast. Never burn bridges even in situations where you feel like you are getting the short end of the stick. There is nothing to be gained by it. If they want you to play ,, just tell them you are busy, and thank them for the offer. They will hang themselves fast enough without your help. rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted June 20, 2007 Members Share Posted June 20, 2007 Stupid people tend to run their necks.... no reason to give them any ammo. The musician community in any town is pretty small. Word travels pretty fast. Never burn bridges even in situations where you feel like you are getting the short end of the stick. There is nothing to be gained by it. If they want you to play ,, just tell them you are busy, and thank them for the offer. They will hang themselves fast enough without your help. rat I ain't disagreeing with you - just saying why give 2 {censored}s about these losers? That's why I would just pack my stuff and go - no need to say or do anything else at that point - the door slams, and you never have to see, hear or deal with em again. It could have been worse - at least they didn't dis-respect you... When I got canned the band leader sent me an e-mail loaded with insults and disrespect of my musical abilities, which was absolutely uncalled for. Especially since it was a bolt from the blue and I had gotten zero negative feedback from them or anyone prior to the email.... Best thing to do is just say "it's not working" and move on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ToneGrail Posted June 20, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 20, 2007 Now there are a couple of issues: We just recorded a 7 inch and we still owe 500 dollars on the balance of the recording. We were originally intending to split the cost 4 ways. Should I just let them worry about it now? Also there is some money in the band fund. Should I take my 25% of it and write everybody a check for their 25%, or should I just give it all to them to defray the outstanding recording bill since I am on the recording? I'm leaning towards just taking my cut and walking away letting them sort out how they're going to pay for the bill. As far as I'm concerned, it's no longer my problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lonotes Posted June 20, 2007 Members Share Posted June 20, 2007 I ain't disagreeing with you - just saying why give 2 {censored}s about these losers? Well, in keeping with the earlier SO breakup motif, just consider it a pity{censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted June 20, 2007 Members Share Posted June 20, 2007 Now there are a couple of issues:We just recorded a 7 inch and we still owe 500 dollars on the balance of the recording. We were originally intending to split the cost 4 ways. Should I just let them worry about it now? Also there is some money in the band fund. Should I take my 25% of it and write everybody a check for their 25%, or should I just give it all to them to defray the outstanding recording bill since I am on the recording? I'm leaning towards just taking my cut and walking away letting them sort out how they're going to pay for the bill. As far as I'm concerned, it's no longer my problem. There ya go - they made their bed, they can lay in it. Take your money and hit the road is the best thing you can do - remember, it was their decision, not yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted June 22, 2007 Members Share Posted June 22, 2007 I'm not so sure I'd condemn them for giving you notice about being "out". I'd rather be told by my bandmates that they're going in a different direction that doesn't include me after the XXX gig - than to be dumped afterwards. At least it would give me a chance to start looking for another gig - and potentially leverage the XXX gig so help me do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dougb415 Posted June 22, 2007 Members Share Posted June 22, 2007 I've never heard of anyone looking for a "looser" or sloppier drummer. There are some drummers like Stewart Copeland who push the beat. Others who are more precise, like Mickey Hart. Steve Gadd is one who can be considered (imo) "looser" - even tho he is tremendously talented, he plays just slightly behind the beat, which is considered by some to be "looser". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Narcosynthesis Posted June 23, 2007 Members Share Posted June 23, 2007 It will be interesting seeing how they cope when they figure out that it was you doing most of the background work for them and they have to do it themselves. On doing the last show, I don't see a problem with that, they have asked you to leave, so you could stomp off in a huff, or you could finish off with one last show, make it a good one and go out with a bang. Top marks for taking it on the chin and not being petty about it. As for the money, I would definately take your share of what you have earned so far, if you got fired from a job, you wouldn't just ignore any money they are still due you... As for the record, I guess it depends on how they are wanting to handle it, if you are going to see no returns from it then to me it seems stupid to pay a share of the recording. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members way2fat Posted June 23, 2007 Members Share Posted June 23, 2007 There are some drummers like Stewart Copeland who push the beat. Others who are more precise, like Mickey Hart. Steve Gadd is one who can be considered (imo) "looser" - even tho he is tremendously talented, he plays just slightly behind the beat, which is considered by some to be "looser". I don't consider "loose" and playing on the back of the beat the same thing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jive4005 Posted June 23, 2007 Members Share Posted June 23, 2007 Been there (tho as a singer rather than drummer) and can dig how it went down. A very common kind of thing in the wonderful world of bands. My advice (been in the biz full time-long time) is... find new people and keep playing. Playing is what counts. Band come and go... music lives on. I sincerely hope you find others who share your musical vision and likes. Keep pluggin'... and in a few years, mail that old band your reviews from Variety! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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