Musicians say the darndest things...

[Damon Holland]

Just wanted to share a great quote from Steve Vai...

 

Referring to the G3 tour and playing onstage with Joe Satriani and Yngwie Malmsteen.

 

"These guys are musical giants. They're the elite of the elite. They're doing their thing and they're doing it really hard and strong. Whatever criticism you can give to Yngwie for the way he plays, he's still unique, and he's doing what he does as good as anyone on the planet has ever done it. The way that Joe plays and what he's doing is unique to him, also. He doesn't play like Beck, Santana, Page or Hendrix, or anyone else. He's Joe Satriani and when he digs in, it's serious business. Mountains to the left of me and mountains to the right of me, and my job is to find that uniqueness that I have as a player and spit it out there, just like these guys are doing. You can't compete with them. You're a fool if you do. How do you compete with Yngwie? That's a classic mistake that I've seen people sometimes do when they get onstage with us. He'll eat you. And the same thing with Joe. You don't compete. You try to raise your own bar and they're the best inspiration for that. I'm way beyond trying to compete. Competing is sort of like you're saying you're on their level. You're on your own level, just like they're own their own level. To go into their world and try to play like them to beat them out at what they do is not only idiotic, selfish and egotistical, but it's downright crazy. If you're not confident in your own abilities, you're going to feel like you need to compete, and that's the classic mistake. But you know how long it takes and what it takes to be confident in your own abilities? Some people never get there. It's a lifetime of study and it takes a lot more than just practicing. It's a whole mind set."

 

 

Wow! What a great attitude and philosophy for someone in a genre that's usually considered very ego driven.

 

Merry Christmas!!!

TJ

[cooterbrown]

Hmm...I feel *a lot* of thinly-veiled ego, there.

The main problem I have with Vai's statement, is the problem I have with a lot of shredders...they want to treat the music they make like it's a competition.

What Vai is basically saying to me, is; "you can't hang with these dudes, so don't even try...they'll eat your lunch."

I don't dig that attitude, at all, and that's one reason why I don't care to see anybody who has ever been on a G3 tour, save maybe Eric Johnson.

[Scafeets]

I think Vai has the correct shredder's attitude. A lot of people dismiss the whole genre as wankery, but I find it (shredding) to be a great demonstration of technique and improvising skills. Hell, the attitude is older than rock. Chopin's etudes, like a lot of his music, were written to show what he could do on the piano -- and to give great players a challenging canon of work to perfom. Later, Segovia and his contemporaries transcribed and played thoise etudes on guitar for pretty much the same reasons. If you get a chance to hear the Romeros (classical guitar quartet/quintent) live, listen to them trade fours and you'll see that the shredder mentality is older than Leo Fender's bones.

[BlackHatHunter]

I personally don't see shred and improv skills belonging in the same sentence. You play that fast, with such an emphasis on technique, and more often than not what you're playing is scales, patterns and pre-planned stuff more than true improv.

 

This said, I have enjoyed some satch tracks. Vai, less. I am not ready for his music Yngwie, not at all. I just don't personally care for classical music played a million miles an hour on a highly saturated guitar. And the ego doesn't help, either.

[Scafeets]

 

I personally don't see shred and improv skills belonging in the same sentence. You play that fast, with such an emphasis on technique, and more often than not what you're playing is scales, patterns and pre-planned stuff more than true improv. This said, I have enjoyed some satch tracks. Vai, less. I am not ready for his music Yngwie, not at all. I just don't personally care for classical music played a million miles an hour on a highly saturated guitar. And the ego doesn't help, either.

 

 

I think I know where you're coming from. A lot of shredding IS wankery; but the players who do it well demonstrate both chops and inventiveness. I'm with you on giving props to Satch; while most of Vai's stuff sounds (to me) riffy and immature. But WTF - different stokes.

 

Yngwie at his best is mostly memorized classical exercises, so you have a point there. However, rock guys like Eric Johnson and Jeff Beck and jazzers Gambale and Stern fit my definition of "shred" and thus legitimize the genre.

 

I would like to think that Django and Charlie Christian were the shredders of their time, too.

[Fig0ta]

The fact that Vai thinks no one can compete with Yngwie or Satch .... is hysterical...

 

There will always be someone out there who's better..

[FitchFY]

A great quote from a true master.

[Damon Holland]

The main problem I have with Vai's statement, is the problem I have with a lot of shredders...they want to treat the music they make like it's a competition. What Vai is basically saying to me, is; "you can't hang with these dudes, so don't even try...they'll eat your lunch."

 

Dude, you really missed the point. He's really saying just the opposite. He's saying don't compete. Be yourself. Do your own thing. But if you try to beat someone at what they do best, they WILL eat your lunch. So do what you do best and shine right next to them.

 

I don't see these guys trying to compete with anyone. But I see and hear alot of people who think THEY can compete with them. Or are better than them.

 

I think it's a really great attitude to have. Vai is saying that he can't compete with Joe or yngwie on THEIR level. So he gets up there and does what he does best.

 

I mean...when you get to that level of expertise it really all becomes personal preference doesn't it? Who someone else thinks is "better" is in the ear of the beholder.

 

As much as I DON'T listen to these guys anymore, they are NOT all about speed. That may be one of their forte' but it's just not true that they riff and wank away at 300BPM through every song.

 

For a nice example, check out "Crystal Ball" from Malmsteen. It's an old tune. And he does cut loose at some points. But the guy DOES have feeling and emotion in his playing. Not just a bunch of scales ran together.

 

But back to the topic. Once you find your own musical voice then no one can compete with you. Because their not you. And they'll never be able to do what YOU do. Only copy it.

 

TJ

[Damon Holland]

 

The fact that Vai thinks no one can compete with Yngwie or Satch .... is hysterical... There will always be someone out there who's better..

 

 

Why do they have to be better? They should be themselves.

 

No bar exam or license required to play music. So who decides somone else is "better"? How many Cd's they sell? How long they've been around? I don't know.....

 

I'd say no one can do Satriani like Satriani. Get my point?

 

TJ

[coyote-1]

I think you're missing the point.

 

The fact that Vai thinks no one can compete with Yngwie or Satch .... is hysterical... There will always be someone out there who's better..

 

Vai knows perfectly well he stacks up against (with?) those guys, and likely exceeds them in many regards. But what he's saying is not to try to compete on tech prowess - but to find YOUR OWN VOICE on the instrument. All three of them did exactly that.

[Damon Holland]

 

I think you're missing the point. Vai knows perfectly well he stacks up against (with?) those guys, and likely exceeds them in many regards. But what he's saying is not to try to compete on tech prowess - but to find YOUR OWN VOICE on the instrument. All three of them did exactly that.

 

 

Thanks for clarifiying... I think you said it better than I did.

 

The lesson in all of this:

 

Stop trying to compete with other people. Be yourself and grow musically.

 

TJ

[MDLMUSIC]

I totally share Steve Vai's philosophy.

 

With my part time jam session gigs, I get to share the stage with lots of guitar players at different ability levels, some absolute beginners, some seasoned professionals.

 

I never try to outplay them. I just do what I do to the best of my ability and try to complement what they are doing.

 

The musicians who end up looking foolish are the ones who come onstage with an attitude of wanting to show off to the other musicians in the house. They usually just end up looking pathetic, because they are playing to massage their own egos, not to support the song.

 

I'm always reminded of the Three Tenors. I don't think any of them performed with the idea of outsinging the other two.

[oscarzacosta]

man, I could go on for a week on this but Cyndi Laupers always been good for a laugh in my book.

 

 

doing monitors for her.

 

...in her thick jersey, Elmer Fudd accent.

 

"make my monitors sound more twopical."

 

 

 

 

 

and...

 

 

 

 

her - "the monitahs sound like {censored}."

english monitor guy - "alf a mo, miss. they aren't on yet."

 

 

 

and so's Joe Perry...

 

"hey guys, the lights looked great tonight. I could see my feet."

[6StringSling]

I'm currently transcribing the bits and pieces of stuff I have in my head with the hopes of fleshing most of them out into songs. I find it a constant battle with myself to not compare what I'm doing with anybody else, to not wonder/worry if other guitarists think what I'm writing is lame. I just remind myself that I like it and if no one else does they don't have to listen to it.

[pjrake]

 

For a nice example, check out "Crystal Ball" from Malmsteen. It's an old tune. And he does cut loose at some points. But the guy DOES have feeling and emotion in his playing. Not just a bunch of scales ran together.

 

 

that's a great song! heck, that whole album is great! i might be in the minority here but i'm a big fan of malmsteen.

[ggm1960]

I bought the G3 Live in Denver DVD earlier this year and I thought Vai's set was by far the most entertaining.

 

He's not only an amazing player; he also displayed some mastery of looping technology and additionally shared the stage (and spotlight) with his own amazing band members (one of whom not only smoked on guitar but was equally adept at keyboards).

[haminator]

I think you're missing the point. Vai knows perfectly well he stacks up against (with?) those guys, and likely exceeds them in many regards. But what he's saying is not to try to compete on tech prowess - but to find YOUR OWN VOICE on the instrument. All three of them did exactly that.

 

Totally cool and I respect that attitude.

 

I HATE when musicians treat music like a race or competition. Sports are for competition. Music is about making music! That's all there is to it.

 

I totally agree that everyone is good at what "they do" and that's all that matters. I don't ever compare musicians on skill levels, it's just so unimportant to me. If someone can play and make great music, then that's what matters.

 

I get pissed when my band mate gets competitive. We'll see other local bands and he'll talk all competitively as if we had to defeat them at something. I just don't get it. We're gonna play and make music how we do it best and that's that!

 

PS - I do think shredders are noodlers. It seems to me they're too busy shredding to fully convey any feeling in the music. Maybe I haven't heard enough though. I can respect them for what they do though, but I'd prefer Wes Montgomery over them any day.

[Jesse G]

" Wow! What a great attitude and philosophy for someone in a genre that's usually considered very ego driven. Merry Christmas!!! TJ

 

Vai and Satriani seem to be very open-minded, and humble about what they do.

 

Yngwie, on the other hand...

[wades_keys]

Everything I've read about and from Vai says that he is intense, confident, yet still humble about his place in the scheme of things.

 

The fact that he was open to allowing a master orchestrator to arrange his orchestral parts I think tends to back that up - he knew he was in over his head and enlisted the aid of a respected orchestral arranger.

 

The more I read about Vai the more I like the guy.

[wades_keys]

Yngwie at his best is mostly memorized classical exercises, so you have a point there. However, rock guys like Eric Johnson and Jeff Beck and jazzers Gambale and Stern fit my definition of "shred" and thus legitimize the genre.

Don't forget Shawn Lane....

[Hollow body]

I agree with Cooterbrown -- methinks Vai protests too much. To go on and on like that about how he's not competitive shows that he's obsessed with competition.

 

Also, it's easy to be non-competitive till you get challenged. Does anyone really think that he would be so magnanimous if some buck tried to blow him off his stage?

 

Competition is at the heart of shred, which is one reason I find it such a drag.

[El-Lardo]

 

Just wanted to share a great quote from Steve Vai... Referring to the G3 tour and playing onstage with Joe Satriani and Yngwie Malmsteen. "These guys are musical giants. They're the elite of the elite. They're doing their thing and they're doing it really hard and strong. Whatever criticism you can give to Yngwie for the way he plays, he's still unique, and he's doing what he does as good as anyone on the planet has ever done it. The way that Joe plays and what he's doing is unique to him, also. He doesn't play like Beck, Santana, Page or Hendrix, or anyone else. He's Joe Satriani and when he digs in, it's serious business. Mountains to the left of me and mountains to the right of me, and my job is to find that uniqueness that I have as a player and spit it out there, just like these guys are doing. You can't compete with them. You're a fool if you do. How do you compete with Yngwie? That's a classic mistake that I've seen people sometimes do when they get onstage with us. He'll eat you. And the same thing with Joe. You don't compete. You try to raise your own bar and they're the best inspiration for that. I'm way beyond trying to compete. Competing is sort of like you're saying you're on their level. You're on your own level, just like they're own their own level. To go into their world and try to play like them to beat them out at what they do is not only idiotic, selfish and egotistical, but it's downright crazy. If you're not confident in your own abilities, you're going to feel like you need to compete, and that's the classic mistake. But you know how long it takes and what it takes to be confident in your own abilities? Some people never get there. It's a lifetime of study and it takes a lot more than just practicing. It's a whole mind set." Wow! What a great attitude and philosophy for someone in a genre that's usually considered very ego driven. Merry Christmas!!! TJ

 

 

Replace "music" with "football game" and this could be Vince Lombardi talking.

[jlantsberger]

 

I agree with Cooterbrown -- methinks Vai protests too much. To go on and on like that about how he's not competitive shows that he's obsessed with competition.

 

 

maybe, but i'm not sure about that. it kind of depends on the context of the quote, which we don't have. that could very well have been a response to a question like "so, what's it like being on a stage with malmsteen and satriani? is it a lot of pressure to know that people will be comparing you with these guys?" or something along those lines, where the question sort of implies that there's a competition.

[haze63]

Via rocks. I hate the competitive attitude B.S. Play for the love of playing, be your best in your own world...

[Li Shenron]

I think Vai's statements make a lot of sense. They aren't restricted to skill/technical considerations, but they have a lot to do with music styles. Take a relatively low-skilled famous guitarist such as Gilmour, Clapton or even B.B.King, and ask Vai to play their songs: he will certainly approximate them (and would have no technical problem whatsoever) but he won't sound like them at all.

 

Imitating another guitarist's style is fine when you're studying the instrument, as a sort of starting point. But if you want to be an original artist, you have to get past that idea. As an example, Petrucci said he learned all Malmsteen's repertoire in his teen years, and practiced a lot to sound like him, but already in Dream Theater's first album he doesn't sound like him anymore at all.

 

If you're not interested in being an original artist, then you can do whatever you want. The music scene is full of professional guitarists who are extremely accomplished at technique, and do nothing but obscure jobs as session men, or in cover bands. That's as far as you can go with imitating someone else's style IMHO.