how would you do this?

[Kramerguy]

Well, I'm getting into a growth situation, and don't know exactly how to proceed.

 

One of my projects is really taking off, we may be playing some very large venues soon. My problem is that all my gear is mediocre, at best. I'm using a GNX3000 footpedal, through a PA, but the tones are not "professional" level, I'm finding. Works for small bars and coffee houses, but when we get on a big stage with potentially hundreds, or even thousands of fans, it's going to suck. I'm already finding tonal problems with medium crowds. My guitars are all cheapos that I've modded. Can make do, but none have the right properties and literally NO sustain (which is killing me). I could probably start using my marshall 1/2 stack valvestate, but in the end, I think I really need a high quality tube amp, a (good) fender strat, and a nice set of individual stompboxes. I figure at least $1500-2k for a truly good tube amp, another $1200-2000 for a good strat, and then maybe $750 more for a stompbox suitcase with the boxes I need. add in new cables, etc, and I'm up to $4-5k easily.

 

I just don't have this kind of cash laying around... I'm making ends meet, but there's not much more after that. Gig money is being saved for new gear, but it will take months upon months to get there, and these potential gigs can happen much sooner.

 

Is there a sponsor solution, or are those days over? Do you think it's tacky to ask a relative to make an "investment"? Opening a line of credit is not an option, as I'm currently at my limit on monthly expenses and cannot realistically afford to add more payments than what I have (currently only one line of credit, paying 8k in medical costs, and then just household expenses). Any other possibilities I've overlooked? Alternative approaches?

[GCDEF]

Used Peavey Classic 30. $350.

Used American Series Strat $700.

Line 6 M-13. $500.

 

Total $1550 and unless you're a metal band, you could play pretty much any gig out there with that setup.

[JBJ]

you don't need to spend a fortune on gear.

 

what sort of stuff do you play?

 

unless you're in bloc party or the prodigy you can cover a lot of ground with just a decent amp and guitar...

[Johnny_1Nut]

+1 to that ^...especially if it's an HSS configuration.

 

You needn't go ALL out on 'pro' gear. Look at your weakest link, your must haves, and go from there.

 

Personally, I might start w/ a decent amp. Try and find a used git off CL or something. Is your heart set on Fender/strat type guitars?

 

A BossME50 is also decent for efx for the purposes at this point.

 

Done right, you could still have a decent live rig right around 1-1.5k. YMMV of course.

[Austincowbell]

you can get a used american strat, G&L or studio les paul for under $800. I would start there and go with the boss ME 50 ($300) instead of a full pedal array (its VERY programmable and has boss effects which are very solid) and you can get a used fender hot rod deluxe which at 40 watts is a LOT louder than you think for $450. You're looking at $1500-1600. is that doable?

 

most important is going to be the boss ME-50. That GNX is just going to ruin your life.

[Austincowbell]

damn... Johnny beat me to it on the ME50...

[Johnny_1Nut]

damn... Johnny beat me to it on the ME50...

 

... but the GNX's are home wreckers.

[fatcatinahat]

I smell someone trying to justify all his gas in one big transaction.

Not a good choice IMO.

[prevost82]

If you can't afford it ... don't buy it. Live with what you have ... make the best of it until you can afford your GAS. I doubt the the crowd will heard the difference.

[Austincowbell]

quick idea:

 

Find a used Japanese Strat from the 80s. Believe it or not you can find a fair amount of them on ebay or craigslist and they are VERY well made instruments generally in the $350-$500 range on criagslist and maybe $500-$600 on Ebay. Here is one starting at $329

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Fender-Stratocaster-1986-Made-in-Japan-electric-guitar_W0QQitemZ230319272991QQihZ013QQcategoryZ2384QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Kramerguy]

thanks for the responses guys-

 

A few additions to the details, I think it will help with the responses-

 

I'm playing folk/pop, the instruments I'm playing with are a really nice martin acoustic guitar, pro bass (don't recall the brand, but it sounds pretty damn amazing), and the drummer has a professional series pearl set. The piano (keyboard)is a high end roland that sounds like a full sized piano to me (and weighs as much as one lol)

 

I'm clearly the weakest link in this, and my "tone" issues come from the dynamics. The GNX (and I tried a fender solid state combo, my spare) and solid state just can't cut through the mix well. Basically, if I try to cut through with the current tone, I end up sounding gritty and artifacted with the rest of the music, or I do what I've been doing, turning down, and being hard to hear, and not getting enough raw gain for leads, or else cutting through too hard (with more gain / volume) and again, sounding scratchy and artifacted.

 

I doubt a me-50 will do any better just because I tried one out when I bought the gnx and they both sounded equally "digital" in their amp properties, which is why I feel that a good tube amp would help. I can certainly bypass the amp models and use the gnx just for effects to save some $$ but the guitar's tone and the solid state amps/pedal just are clashing more on the mids and not cutting through the mix.

 

Does that help?

 

And yes, I know, Don't buy something you cannot afford, and I'm the one usually preaching that, but I feel this situation is unique, and don't want to walk into a knife-fight with a toothpick, to make a bad analogy.

[Kramerguy]

quick idea: Find a used Japanese Strat from the 80s. Believe it or not you can find a fair amount of them on ebay or craigslist and they are VERY well made instruments generally in the $350-$500 range on criagslist and maybe $500-$600 on Ebay. Here is one starting at $329 http://cgi.ebay.com/Fender-Stratocaster-1986-Made-in-Japan-electric-guitar_W0QQitemZ230319272991QQihZ013QQcategoryZ2384QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

Good idea - I'm not opposed to buying used gear. More often than not, it tends to be more dependable than new these days

[Johnny_1Nut]

 

thanks for the responses guys- A few additions to the details, I think it will help with the responses- I'm playing folk/pop, the instruments I'm playing with are a really nice martin acoustic guitar, pro bass (don't recall the brand, but it sounds pretty damn amazing), and the drummer has a professional series pearl set. The piano (keyboard)is a high end roland that sounds like a full sized piano to me (and weighs as much as one lol) I'm clearly the weakest link in this, and my "tone" issues come from the dynamics. The GNX (and I tried a fender solid state combo, my spare) and solid state just can't cut through the mix well. Basically, if I try to cut through with the current tone, I end up sounding gritty and artifacted with the rest of the music, or I do what I've been doing, turning down, and being hard to hear, and not getting enough raw gain for leads, or else cutting through too hard (with more gain / volume) and again, sounding scratchy and artifacted. I doubt a me-50 will do any better just because I tried one out when I bought the gnx and they both sounded equally "digital" in their amp properties, which is why I feel that a good tube amp would help. I can certainly bypass the amp models and use the gnx just for effects to save some $$ but the guitar's tone and the solid state amps/pedal just are clashing more on the mids and not cutting through the mix. Does that help? And yes, I know, Don't buy something you cannot afford, and I'm the one usually preaching that, but I feel this situation is unique, and don't want to walk into a knife-fight with a toothpick, to make a bad analogy.

 

 

Yeah, that's why I would go with a decent amp first. Reasons being - you can still sound good, even if the guitar is shyte. It will add a bit of natural compression which ='s sustain...so that'll help in that regard. SS will just sound like shyte if you're trying to fight the rest of the band.

 

The really cheap option - mic yourself up and run through the PA, just kick some signal back through the monitors...not much, but enough to hear what you're doing.

 

Some guys I know, who are regular gigging musicians - SWEAR by running through a POD direct in to the PA and they love it. That would put you in under $400.

 

So you can get by, and I'm a bit of a tone snob. I would and have used any and all of the above options.

[Kramerguy]

 

Yeah, that's why I would go with a decent amp first. Reasons being - you can still sound good, even if the guitar is shyte. It will add a bit of natural compression which ='s sustain...so that'll help in that regard. SS will just sound like shyte if you're trying to fight the rest of the band. The really cheap option - mic yourself up and run through the PA, just kick some signal back through the monitors...not much, but enough to hear what you're doing. Some guys I know, who are regular gigging musicians - SWEAR by running through a POD direct in to the PA and they love it. That would put you in under $400. So you can get by, and I'm a bit of a tone snob. I would and have used any and all of the above options.

 

 

I would have to agree to find the amp first - I'm going to probably try my valvestate first, although I doubt it will work out much better, the whole 'fake tube' thing kind of doesn't work.

 

I haven't tried mic'ing the amp yet, but I was so disgusted with the tone of the amp+pedal that I just turned the amp off and plugged direct. The pod.. pretty much same as the gnx and the me50... all the same flavors, different brands of ice cream.. my gnx sounds amazing direct into my board with the headphones on.. not bad even for direct recording.. but when you pit it against real instruments (turn the volume up...), you end up with 'meh'.. Same goes the the boss and pod, dress them up all you want, but in the end, they can't compete with good solid gear.

 

Sorry for preaching... lol.

 

I'm looking to buy any new gear at once, because I'm sure many of you know that every time you change your rig, you spend precious rehearsal time tweaking (finding that sweet spot).. I'd rather do it in one shot rather than re-tweak every other week at rehearsals. So I was looking for "creative financing" ideas, as well as the already mentioned 'buy used' and other good suggestions.

[Johnny_1Nut]

No worries man, just throwing some ideas out there that are workable, if not ideal. I'm with you myself, I'm a bit of a tone snob and if I can't at least have my LP > 808 > DRRI...I get a bit cranky.

 

Can't turn a sows ear in to a silk purse that's for sure. Maybe one of the Tonelabs would warm the signal up enough for you, turn the modeling off and just do that...same as the POD trick but at least there's...*cough* a tube in there to warm it up a bit. Don't mean to beat the already decomposing horse that idea is...

 

Creative Financing...well, that depends. You could give blood/plasma/sperm. Maybe do some busking on the side in the mall? Dang...I'm not real good w/ creative financing. Are you in any trades? i.e. your day job - is there something of value you could trade for gear or something? Like if someone needed a few rooms painted, a break job done on their truck...maybe a local older resident needs some help out around the house, + they'd probably enjoy the company. I know those are all a stretch, but I'm trying to think outside the box here with ya.

[wades_keys]

 

I haven't tried mic'ing the amp yet, but I was so disgusted with the tone of the amp+pedal that I just turned the amp off and plugged direct. The pod.. pretty much same as the gnx and the me50... all the same flavors, different brands of ice cream..

 

Nope not really.

 

Here's the deal - the GNX has {censored}ty distortion/preamp/speaker sim capabilities. It's modulation effects may or not be okay.

 

It will rob tone from your guitar even when bypassed.

 

I played in a band with a guy that used the GNX and that thing managed to make a fender blackface sound like a {censored}ty solid state amp.

 

I also play in a band with 2 guys that use Pod's, and am a former POD owner. I can tell you with 100% certainty that the POD, while it has it's shortcomings and may not be right for you, absolutely DESTROYS the GNX tonally, especially the gain/distortion.

 

The boss unit I would not use for distortion, but if it's like their old ME series multi-effects the distortion you get will be similar if not identical to a boss stompbox - still miles better than that god-awful GNX distortion, which like most digitech products I've encountered over the years, has probably the WORST sounding distortion of any product on the market today.

[Kramerguy]

 

I know those are all a stretch, but I'm trying to think outside the box here with ya.

 

 

Hey, I appreciate the efforts. I'm good with PC's and do side jobs, as well as set up home theater systems, but that usually goes towards the main budget, as I can't exactly make ends meet with only the day job. I'm thinking of going to my pop and asking him to make an "investment" in my music future. If I "make it" lol.. I will buy him a new McMansion or something haha. Most likely he will say no.. he's kind of oldschool

[wades_keys]

What you need IMO is a good, tubey outboard distortion like a Maxon OD-808 or a Zendrive, a nice warm echo unit (the line6 delay modeler is actually quite good for what you pay), and a good chorus unit.

 

Replace the GNX with the above and I bet your tone will improve big time - plus if you do get a tube amp, those effects will still be valuable and usable.

 

If you play your cards right you can make enough money from selling the GNX to offset a good chunk of that cost.

[Kramerguy]

 

Nope not really. Here's the deal - the GNX has {censored}ty distortion/preamp/speaker sim capabilities. It's modulation effects may or not be okay. It will rob tone from your guitar even when bypassed. I played in a band with a guy that used the GNX and that thing managed to make a fender blackface sound like a {censored}ty solid state amp. I also play in a band with 2 guys that use Pod's, and am a former POD owner. I can tell you with 100% certainty that the POD, while it has it's shortcomings and may not be right for you, absolutely DESTROYS the GNX tonally, especially the gain/distortion. The boss unit I would not use for distortion, but if it's like their old ME series multi-effects the distortion you get will be similar if not identical to a boss stompbox - still miles better than that god-awful GNX distortion, which like most digitech products I've encountered over the years, has probably the WORST sounding distortion of any product on the market today.

 

 

Hmm.. I think I will accept your advice, head out to Sam Ash tomorrow and totally CRANK the pod and ME50 and see what happens lol. I played all 3 last year, and they all sounded equal to me, but it was also at a lower volume, and I guess maybe the gnx fooled me at that level.

 

What's funny is that in my old band, we did classic rock and some heavy alt rock, and I always got compliments on my sound with that gnx, it seemed perfect for it.. but with cleans and mild distortion, it really falls apart. I guess I assumed I would see the same from the ME50 and pod, as they seem to both be geared at the same genre of music?

[Johnny_1Nut]

Well, you could come up with a viable business plan to meet him halfway - Tell him an investment of 'xx dollars' will guarantee a return of 'xx' dollars BY such and such a date. Make it so you buy yourself some time, don't over extend yourself and if you can't make the $ back by gigs than do it however possible.

 

If you come to the table w/ a plan at least, then as an oldschool guy he can respect that or should be able to. I gotta run but I'll check back and see if I can clarify on this thought a bit. Good luck man!

[wades_keys]

 

What's funny is that in my old band, we did classic rock and some heavy alt rock, and I always got compliments on my sound with that gnx, it seemed perfect for it.. but with cleans and mild distortion, it really falls apart. I guess I assumed I would see the same from the ME50 and pod, as they seem to both be geared at the same genre of music?

 

For cleans and mild distortion, go with outboard analog effects would be my advice.

 

Maxon/Ibanez Tubescreamers are great - hell, Eric Johnson uses one and he gets no tone complaints. I convinced our guitarist to get the od-808 and it's made a big difference in his tone.

[Kramerguy]

 

For cleans and mild distortion, go with outboard analog effects would be my advice. Maxon/Ibanez Tubescreamers are great - hell, Eric Johnson uses one and he gets no tone complaints. I convinced our guitarist to get the od-808 and it's made a big difference in his tone.

 

 

lol, the tube screamer model in the gnx is the ONLY distortion model that even comes close to what I was looking for, but still not good enough. I know the old Ibanez screamers are the {censored}. Friend told me the new ones are ass.

[Austincowbell]

good call on the re-testing of the ME-50. I had one which I cranked up and used at LOUD volumes with my 100 watt VHT amp and it sounded awesome. With regards to amp modelers, I RARELY, if ever used that feature on anything. Its just too digital-ish. I've also heard good things about the PODs. I think a new guitar (the MIJ Strat seems like the best solution thus far... {censored}... I wish I still had mine, I'd have been VERY happy to sell it to you instead of the guy who bought it. At least YOU will gig with the damn thing) and a used amp will do incredible things for your sound.

 

and just a note on people complimenting tone: In my band for which I am the drummer the lead guitarist plays a made in china squire tele through a blues junior. It sounds ok-ish. He gets compliments on that piece of {censored} every show with regards to his tone. Now.... he usually gets it from non-gigging musicians, drummers or bass players but he DOES get compliments.

[Nijyo]

FWIW I have owned both an ME50 and (currently) a Pod XT Live within the last two years. The ME50 was "ok", but I didn't find the pedal system very helpful when not sitting and practicing (have to hit two pedals at once to enter tuning mode, etc). The PXTL is a much better "stand up" system IMHO, and the sounds out of it are better.

 

I'm a little iffy on using it in live situations, but I'm told its a fairly hearty piece of hardware. The X3 has a XLR out (and some vocal stuff I think) I believe, the XT only has 1/4" out.

[MartinC]

Don't go into debt to buy gear for a gig you don't even have yet. I joined a band that was gigging all over town in the best clubs. I had a peavy duece amp and two strats. One of the strats was a lefty 1964 candy apple red in almost perfect condition. At the time it was worth about 1200. I liked the 76 strat I had better, so I traded the 64 for a brand new mesa boogie mark II, which was also worth 1200.00

 

The boogie is an old pos now, while that strat is probably worth 15k or better.

 

A pro guitarist told me when I was a kid jonesin for a marshall

"Don't go out and buy a Marshall stack. When you need it, it will be there" He was right. When you get the big gigs, playing for thousands of people, the gear you need will find it's way into your hands. A friend of mine is a full time guitarist. A guy gave him a PRS. Gibson gave him an SG. And so on. Just play the best you can with what you have. Sell any crap gear, and buy the best you can afford, but don't buy stuff for gigs that haven't happened.