Members jacksplatz Posted January 21, 2009 Members Share Posted January 21, 2009 our lead singer is still using lyrics with a music stand(full size) and it's been over a year for 90% of these classic rock cover tunes... tunes he put in the list. When the other guitar player said something about it he said he needed them as a "crutch"...that he knows almost all of the material really...really. After 2 rehearsals with the same set list so the band can get the flow right(endings and medley tunes etc.)... We get to the gig and he has replaced set 1 with set 3 because he needs to let his voice "warm" up....nope ,no way he can jump right into that...no word of this at practice of course ,so lights and sound are planned around the original setlist. His wirless mic he plugs into a effect unit newly copped from ebay which he puts on milk crates in the front of the stage right next to the music stand.....it hums so loud thru the pa it has too be jettisoned.... then says we can't do songs that required his "harmonizer" even though drummer and I sing perfectly good harmonies... when I pressed him about the set list and why we could just change the first tune....he says all of his lyric sheets are in the order he has changed to his new setlist.... Needless to say I was not real happy when we spent a good hour and a half trying to keep the small ass stage we were playing clear of clutter. We are still trying to clear these ancient songs no one groove's to(I'm 18 anyone)and replace them with better stuff....and he suggests that song from "that thing that your do". I'm like oh yeah sweet emotion right into the "tom hanks" tune.(in my head, of course) Me and the other g player joined this band I do'nt think they played to much of a crowd... We've brought a completly different vibe and this guy is ; well I think it's his first project where there's an audience. I'm also having a hard time with trying to stop him from singing during solo's and forgetting to sing verses...then when I pick up singing it he jumps in on top of me.... He has no high range in his voice but insist on singing zepplin,billy squier,etc.. He's not a guy who can stand aside an let someone else in the band sing more than 1 song.... I like guy and he can sing most of the stuff ok, but he's got no clue on what songs to do,how to arrange a setlist etc. His wife is the manager of the band, so if he needs advice on how this or that song sounds in practice, he say his wife says this song good(his)this song not good(ours). The band just had the best gig it's had but it could of been ALOT better... I am fustrated with the situation,but I do like everyone involved. I hope I can find a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Janx Posted January 21, 2009 Members Share Posted January 21, 2009 you got a whole bunch of issues. On the music stand issue, I've got a new perspective on them. For most bands, a music stand on stage is lame and amateur. I was at a party at a piano bar a few weeks back, and they happened to have a 5 piece band playing that night. There were FIVE music stands on stage, with little LED lights so they could see them. They'd played well, and the didn't spend the whole night staring at them. I asked a couple people around what they thought about the music stands. The response I got was "what music stands?" Basically, except for musicians, who expect a band to memorize their parts, nobody else cares or notices. They are there to party, and the band is the human jukebox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Austincowbell Posted January 21, 2009 Members Share Posted January 21, 2009 is anything actually GOOD about this guy? Is he the only singer in your town who owns a van? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jacksplatz Posted January 21, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2009 How can a guy really be a front man when he's stuck at times to a music stand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted January 21, 2009 Members Share Posted January 21, 2009 Have him print the first line of each verse nice and big and put them on the floor. I hate music stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted January 21, 2009 Members Share Posted January 21, 2009 I asked a couple people around what they thought about the music stands. The response I got was "what music stands?" Exactly. I never really had a problem with them, but I do sort of.. I don't like when musicians use them for one reason: Everyone I've known to rely on music stands, and let's face it, it's not the stand, it's the lack of memorization by the person using it.. but everyone I've known, used it not only as a crutch to help them avoid making mistakes, but it always eventually became evident that it was an excuse to NOT have to memorize the lyrics/arrangements/whatever. I know most people who have issues with it cite that it's unprofessional, which I think is just snobbery, nobody cares, as I agreed with the quoted above. My issue is solely a problem with a bandmate's laziness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jacksplatz Posted January 21, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2009 I mean some lead singers use the stand as a prop...but this is not the case.oh and his wireless battery started dying during the show,which led to thesound man turning up the channel and we get wala...feedback.it's this guys band.his wife is the manager.I also think it's laziness.I've got a whole crapload of guitar lines and backing vox to memeorize..and what's so hard about knowing all of the words to "All right now"?You would at least think that he would skip the one's he already says he knows(thus narrowing it down)original material...ok jazz..ok lawrence welk.....classic rock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members newmaxnew Posted January 21, 2009 Members Share Posted January 21, 2009 I would not be able to hang with a guy like that. Our keyboard player gets away with a music stand of sorts right on top of his keyboard. I have even seen him stop playing to turn the page and I don't think that should ever happen. He is not a focal point of the band however. A singer is usually the focal point for most people in the audience and I just don't think a music stand works for a front man. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jacksplatz Posted January 21, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2009 I was really more perturbed w/the voice warmup/change the setlist/I cant adjust to all of you,it's got to be this way.You must change everything for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Austincowbell Posted January 21, 2009 Members Share Posted January 21, 2009 The main issue with a music stand is if your singer is looking at the lyrics he isn't engaging the crowd and people go to both HEAR music and SEE a band. A singer reading off of a music stand is boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jacksplatz Posted January 21, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2009 I really could get by the stand thing if not for everything else.I could ignore all of this,but then I will become apathetic to yet anothercover band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nijyo Posted January 21, 2009 Members Share Posted January 21, 2009 I hate music stands for bands that generally fall into "rock/blues" categories (unless they're hired guns on horns or whatever). It just seems to project the wrong feel for the band. For just about everything else I don't mind stands, though I know from experience that competent musicians usually have the majority of the song memorized anyway, regardless of using a stand or not (after many, many rehearsal in a big band, we could all do most of it from memory, but sometimes we got less-common requests and the music folder came in handy, then -- but we were all Big Band era instrument players, so the closest we got to electric were the mics for the singers and the upright bass -- good times!). I saw a band this weekend where the lead singer had a tiny little stand out in front of the stage a foot or so. It still bugged me. Plus, how much info could be on that little stand? And if people were to be dancing (not that this band's music was particularly memorable, much less groovy), it'd get stomped in about a minute. Just no good for some kinds of music, if you ask me. Anyway, in this case, since his wife is the manager, you're not really gonna get any traction on this, I don't think. Were I in your shoes I'd start looking for a different group to play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim_7string Posted January 21, 2009 Members Share Posted January 21, 2009 The main issue with a music stand is if your singer is looking at the lyrics he isn't engaging the crowd and people go to both HEAR music and SEE a band. A singer reading off of a music stand is boring. Yes, this. That's the problem I'm having with my bandleader. There are times that, because he has a headset wireless mic, he will look down at the lyrics while singing, turn around and fiddle with the mixing board while singing, tuning his guitar while singing (also turned around), then go back to facing the crowd, all in the middle of a song! It's really annoying and drives me crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassred Posted January 21, 2009 Members Share Posted January 21, 2009 I really could get by the stand thing if not for everything else.I could ignore all of this,but then I will become apathetic to yet anothercover band. The stand is the last of your issues. First look at his voice, it's what he's contributing to the band, if it it not up to par for the tunes you are playing, bye-bye. Before mentioning the stand mention the singing, and lack of allowing someone else to sing a couple of songs, it would really just give his voice some rest in the middle part of a set.. Then move on to his wireless and battery issues, that is the gear he brings to the table, smash the crap-box he got from Ebay, or run it from the board the way any real sound guy would run it (if it doesnt buzz like a can of bees that way). Then move on to the music stand. snobbery or not I {censored}in' hate them. I can see in situations where you are a hired gun at the last minute or in a pit band for a show, but playing a venue as a 'band' should mean that you enjoy the material you are playing and have taken the time to LEARN the songs, not half-way learn them, but really learn all of the song, words, melody, emotion, etc.... I played with a young lady who needed a music stand, it was her gig, I was essentially a hired gun, after a few gigs with a music stand I had the songs memorized and ditched the stand. SHe almost forced me to bring it so she didn't look so bad. Again, I was a hired gun, so I'd set up my stand off-stage to my right, open my binder of music to a random page and at least it was there if anyone noticed.. Haven't used a stand since then. I currently play bass and sing lead in a classic rock/blues band. I'm also the bandleader and sound-guy. I've got all the things memorized that I need to, who sings lead on this song (and how do I set the board when they are singing lead, etc) and some times I've even got a 4 switch footswitch for lights at my feet.... doesn't slow the show down a bit, it's all part of doing what you do and doing it well. Ditch him, tell him how badly these things annoy you and (if the rest of the band agrees) get rif of him. it shouldn't feel like work. What part of MD are you in? Grew up on the eastern shore, not that any of the musicians I know are still there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jacksplatz Posted January 21, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2009 you see,I can sing these other tunes,but then he says he has nothing to do...I just thought guy was more seasoned than he really is. He was there when I joined theband.I just don't see him changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted January 21, 2009 Members Share Posted January 21, 2009 The main issue with a music stand is if your singer is looking at the lyrics he isn't engaging the crowd and people go to both HEAR music and SEE a band. A singer reading off of a music stand is boring. Point taken - you are correct. Now I have two good reasons to hate music stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JBJ Posted January 21, 2009 Members Share Posted January 21, 2009 {censored}in' amatuer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 5THSINGER Posted January 22, 2009 Members Share Posted January 22, 2009 This guy sounds completly LAME!!! And having the wife as the manager.....2 words for ya....Yoko Ono:facepalm: But seriously...this guy sounds like a major case of L.S.D. and having the wife as the "manager":facepalm: there's nobody to "check" this guy. I predict a "Drunken Brawl" at the end of a {censored}ty gig and all this stuff will come to light. Where it goes from there??? Who knows??? Ahhhh.....ain't bands GREAT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zildjian@consol Posted January 22, 2009 Members Share Posted January 22, 2009 YOUR FIRED, end of drama, we Had a singer like that. I practise hard to know my parts, singer should to, no matter what.New singer was up to speed in three weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MusicalSchizo Posted January 22, 2009 Members Share Posted January 22, 2009 I only get annoyed about a music stand on stage if the singer isn't doing anything else. I can completely understand people using them if they're instrumentalist/singers - there's a lot going on, and it seems inevitable that the words will suffer from a brain fart every now and then. I use a stand all the time, though I rarely look at it - I just peek every now and then to remind me of how a verse starts. I keep it in line with the neck of my bass so it just looks like I'm looking at my fingers while I play. Some musicians have such arbitrary things they're snobby about...when no one but them actually cares.Brian V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MusicalSchizo Posted January 22, 2009 Members Share Posted January 22, 2009 YOUR FIRED What about his "FIRED"? (grammar fail)Brian V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bloolight Posted January 22, 2009 Members Share Posted January 22, 2009 This singer sounds like a real piece of work. Like somebody else said, the music stand is the least of your problems here. Unless he's Freddie Mercury reincarnated, I'd find another singer. As far as the stand issue is concerned, our singer uses one. Of course, he's also our bass player and has other things to think about when we're playing. He had a pretty serious concussion last year (his fourth, I believe) and his memory for lyrics is now pretty bad. I don't worry about it much. He has a lot of other great qualities and is my songwriting partner...I'll let him keep the stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted January 22, 2009 Members Share Posted January 22, 2009 I'm with everybody else who've pointed out that the music stand isn't the real issue. As far as music stands are concerned - it's doesn't much matter to me as long as a musician isn't glued to it (which has seldom if ever been the case for most bands I've seen using them). Typically - I see stands and wordbooks being used in two different situations. Either it's a solo/duo act that play requests from a book of lots of songs - or - it's a musician who plays 95+% of the night from memory but uses a chart for a couple of more complex tunes. Although I do most of the night from memory - I do use charts on occasion - almost exclusively on the dinner set stuff that we play only occasionally - with the exception being a new tune with a little more complex chord structure. I don't use a stand though ... I usually print them on 5 x 8 index cards that I set atop my Roland RD700SX so they're pretty much "invisible" to the crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members herbie d Posted January 22, 2009 Members Share Posted January 22, 2009 Ha,ha! I'm guilty of the music stand. It takes me forever to remember the words to a song. But I'm an old singer/guitar player well into my 50's (that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it) I do how ever change up my cheat sheets though. After I've done the song a few times, I'll make a new cheat sheet, maybe with the first few words of the line. Then next it might be... no words, but like...Verse (5 lines)CourseVerse (5 lines)(Ride)Verse (5 lines)(out) (end on up beat)I'll put my cheat sheets in order with the song list. I may sing 5 songs, no cheat, the 6th song I do need one, it's the first page on my cheats, and so on. At this moment on a 35 song set list, I have maybe 5 cheat sheets in my folder. (in order with the set sheet) I have to put them in big bold letters so I don't have to wear my glasses. Ha,ha. No one ever really notices though. I have a nice old metal music stand, painted flat black, a little LED light on a goose neck, and a pic of my wife with no top on under the cheat sheets to look at, just in case I need to be reminded to behave myself.I also have troubles sometimes, if someone else puts together the set sheets. They will put two or three songs together that I have to scream my ass off on. Then later in the nite, I have problems hitting notes in another song, as I'm starting to fade from doing too many scream your ass off's in a row. If I don't watch it, and if I do 3 or 4 nites in a row, they will kill me.If I do an Up-Scale Gig. I never pull out cheat sheets, or the stand. I'll spend more time before hand prepping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim_7string Posted January 22, 2009 Members Share Posted January 22, 2009 I have a nice old metal music stand, painted flat black, a little LED light on a goose neck, and a pic of my wife with no top on under the cheat sheets to look at, just in case I need to be reminded to behave myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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