Moderators BATCAT Posted June 17, 2009 Moderators Share Posted June 17, 2009 Actually, yeah, it kind of is. A live band gets judged on the whole package and the way it's presented. But again, as I said, a lot depends on the gig and the genre. Playing a blues gig on an evening festival stage for 5k people with my horn band isn't the same as doing an outdoor barbecue for a biker party with a four piece classic rock band, both of which I've done fairly recently. Exactly. I just find it odd when people try to deny that rock music and fashion are joined at the hip. It's always been almost/as much/more (depending) about images as it is sounds. You guys who want to wear Birkenstocks, shorts, and an AC/DC tee onstage, that's fine. More power to you. Just don't pretend the image you're presenting isn't "guy with birkenstocks, shorts, and AC/DC tee." Whether or not that is a bad thing has a lot to do with the time and place and kind of music. Also I gotta say, there seems to be an insinuation coming from some (maybe I'm wrong?) that there's something unmasculine or fussy about dressing well. Maybe it's 'cos my dad's just a little older than the boomer generation, but part of my notion of "becoming a man" has always always included presenting yourself as a put-together, well dressed, well mannered person. Maybe it's superficial, but humans are visual creatures, and we react to how people appear. I don't think there's anything wrong with accepting that and putting some effort into how you appear. (Or if you don't want to, fine. But don't act like I'm crazy for doing so. I'm not the one showing off my hairy legs here, ya know?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted June 17, 2009 Moderators Share Posted June 17, 2009 So, I think someone already asked this question. What is a 40-ish, overweight dude supposed to wear to an outdoor show? What kinda of band, and how hot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mermph Posted June 17, 2009 Members Share Posted June 17, 2009 Now THAT's rock and roll! aweseome, where can one buy those things? I dont' even know what they are called. sock garters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nobody Told Me Posted June 17, 2009 Members Share Posted June 17, 2009 Also I gotta say, there seems to be an insinuation coming from some (maybe I'm wrong?) that there's something unmasculine or fussy about dressing well. I get that feeling as well. For the last 6 months or so, I've been wearing a long sleeve shirt & tie at shows. My bass player - who usually looks like he just got done changing the oil in his car - rarely misses an opportunity to ask "what's with the tie?" He doesn't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nijyo Posted June 17, 2009 Members Share Posted June 17, 2009 Exactly. I just find it odd when people try to deny that rock music and fashion are joined at the hip. It's always been almost/as much/more (depending) about images as it is sounds. You guys who want to wear Birkenstocks, shorts, and an AC/DC tee onstage, that's fine. More power to you. Just don't pretend the image you're presenting isn't "guy with birkenstocks, shorts, and AC/DC tee." Whether or not that is a bad thing has a lot to do with the time and place and kind of music. Also I gotta say, there seems to be an insinuation coming from some (maybe I'm wrong?) that there's something unmasculine or fussy about dressing well. Maybe it's 'cos my dad's just a little older than the boomer generation, but part of my notion of "becoming a man" has always always included presenting yourself as a put-together, well dressed, well mannered person. Maybe it's superficial, but humans are visual creatures, and we react to how people appear. I don't think there's anything wrong with accepting that and putting some effort into how you appear. (Or if you don't want to, fine. But don't act like I'm crazy for doing so. I'm not the one showing off my hairy legs here, ya know?) If you're playing in a hard rock band, "well-mannered" is probably the opposite image of what one wants to project, for example. Also, I'd point out that complaining that it seems like some folks think its "unmasculine" to dress nice is buying into the same sort of gender-assigned clothing rut as those who would do the other complaining There's a time and place for wearing a tie, I just don't think a rock show is that place. If you're playing a wedding, corp gig, sure, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted June 17, 2009 Moderators Share Posted June 17, 2009 If you're playing in a hard rock band, "well-mannered" is probably the opposite image of what one wants to project, for example. Also, I'd point out that complaining that it seems like some folks think its "unmasculine" to dress nice is buying into the same sort of gender-assigned clothing rut as those who would do the other complaining There's a time and place for wearing a tie, I just don't think a rock show is that place. If you're playing a wedding, corp gig, sure, but... I think you're misunderstanding me a bit, probably my fault for not being clearer... A hard rock bad shouldn't dress like a wedding band, an vise versa, natch. That why I said it depends on what you're playing and where/for who. I'm just saying that people who ignore the visual aspect to performance should be aware that they're choosing to disregard something that is not in fact as trivial as they may consider it. An orchestra may wear suits, and a metal band may wear black jeans/tees, but they do it for the same reason. My second point was about personal, offstage dress. When I see 45-year old guys walking around town in jean shorts, t-shirts, and baseball caps, I think they usually look dumb. (If they're mowing the lawn, it's another matter) Sorry if that offends anyone, you have the right to think I look dumb, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wallywanker Posted June 17, 2009 Members Share Posted June 17, 2009 How do you explain that men even 20 or 30 years ago would never be caught wearing shorts anywhere, say nothing of on stage? just curious as to where this is at? i grew up in rural kansas and i've been in arizona and new mexico for the last 30+ years and i've always seen both sexes of all ages, yes, right up through the grandma's and grandpa's, wearing shorts. when i visited hawaii it was the same there... maybe a cultural thing...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nijyo Posted June 17, 2009 Members Share Posted June 17, 2009 just curious as to where this is at? i grew up in rural kansas and i've been in arizona and new mexico for the last 30+ years and i've always seen both sexes of all ages, yes, right up through the grandma's and grandpa's, wearing shorts. when i visited hawaii it was the same there... maybe a cultural thing...? The idea of suits and what not being considered proper men's dress comes from the same sort of 20th century mindset that included the (false) idea that the nuclear family was the standard way that things worked for hundreds of years. Most of the suit designs came from times when things like central heating didn't exist, people didn't bathe a lot, etc. Plus, suit designs from places like England where its cold, drizzly, and dreary much of the year. There's a reason why in climates such as hawaii or the phillipines, multinational corporations go with the "business" attire of the locale. Wearing a full suit in Hawaii would be ridiculous. Likewise, I work for a multinational corporation, but I wear jeans and a polo shirt because 1) that's what business casual is in my part of the country and 2) I do a fair amount of manual labor, crawling around and stuff. Wearing a suit is fine if you're the sort that's not *doing* anything, be it at work or at home, but wearing one all the time is... well, kinda dated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted June 17, 2009 Moderators Share Posted June 17, 2009 There's a reason why in climates such as hawaii or the phillipines, multinational corporations go with the "business" attire of the locale. Wearing a full suit in Hawaii would be ridiculous. Likewise, I work for a multinational corporation, but I wear jeans and a polo shirt because 1) that's what business casual is in my part of the country and 2) I do a fair amount of manual labor, crawling around and stuff. There's a lot of middle ground beween a suit and shorts/tee. I've lived in and visited a lot of tropical places where you rarely see guys in shorts, only tourists. But anyway yeah, sure, at a certain level of heat/humidity you've gotta adjust how you dress. All I'm saying is that I find the movement towards middle aged guys wearing "kid clothes" to be kinda lame. If I am to be pilloried for that, fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted June 17, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 17, 2009 So, I think someone already asked this question. What is a 40-ish, overweight dude supposed to wear to an outdoor show? I saw Lyle Lovett's Large Band outdoors in August. He has some well fed homeboys in that band, and they were all wearing suits. Not one of them died, either. Ditto BB King's band. Not saying you should wear a suit. I'm saying it's possible to look sharp on stage even when the weather's hot and not die from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pink floyd cramer Posted June 17, 2009 Members Share Posted June 17, 2009 If you got purty legs or have been told you have a nice butt you might as well show your assets off (men can be floozies too). If you work out, make sure to wear shirts with the sleeves ripped out, or tank tops, whenever possible. If anyone complains, they're just jealous because they're not as much of a hottie. Jealousy is teh ugly thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Austincowbell Posted June 17, 2009 Members Share Posted June 17, 2009 Downtown here there's a place that has folks of that particular fashion persuasion who feel the need to jaywalk, slowly, in large platform shoes or heels. KISS lives in your neighborhood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BJH Posted June 17, 2009 Members Share Posted June 17, 2009 So, I think someone already asked this question. What is a 40-ish, overweight dude supposed to wear to an outdoor show? As someone else said, depends on the band/genre. But let me elaborate on something I mentioned earlier in the thread. I once saw Chris Isaak do an outdoor show, and the temp must have been pushing 100 degrees. The opening band belonged to his brother, Nick Isaak (who was pretty good, by the way.) Chris came out to do one song with his brother's band, but since he was only sitting in for one song, he was dressed casually: Khaki pants and an aloha shirt (as I said, Isaak's a guy that can actually pull this off). When he finished the song he said, "Thanks. I'll see you in a bit. I've got to go put on a wool suit." When his band came out, sure enough, he and the rest of his band were wearing very cool retro style suits. He even did a couple of wardrobe changes. (At one point, he donned a suit made entirely of small mirrors. He looked like a giant disco ball.) That really struck me as a mark of professionalism; that willingness to suffer a bit for the sake of the audience. In other words, he didn't shortchange the audience on the visual aspect of the show because of the heat. So, to answer your question, what should someone wear at an outdoor show, my answer is wear what you want. But my point is that I believe the audience really does appreciate it when you put some extra effort into your appearance, and it does help with the band's image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Austincowbell Posted June 17, 2009 Members Share Posted June 17, 2009 As someone else said, depends on the band/genre. But let me elaborate on something I mentioned earlier in the thread. I once saw Chris Isaak do an outdoor show, and the temp must have been pushing 100 degrees. The opening band belonged to his brother, Nick Isaak (who was pretty good, by the way.) Chris came out to do one song with his brother's band, but since he was only sitting in for one song, he was dressed casually: Khaki pants and an aloha shirt (as I said, Isaak's a guy that can actually pull this off). When he finished the song he said, "Thanks. I'll see you in a bit. I've got to go put on a wool suit." When his band came out, sure enough, he and the rest of his band were wearing very cool retro style suits. He even did a couple of wardrobe changes. (At one point, he donned a suit made entirely of small mirrors. He looked like a giant disco ball.) That really struck me as a mark of professionalism; that willingness to suffer a bit for the sake of the audience. In other words, he didn't shortchange the audience on the visual aspect of the show because of the heat. So, to answer your question, what should someone wear at an outdoor show, my answer is wear what you want. But my point is that I believe the audience really does appreciate it when you put some extra effort into your appearance, and it does help with the band's image.I saw coldplay at ACL a few years ago and it was EASILY over 100 degrees and they had pants, shirts and jackets on. It shows a level of commitment, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BJH Posted June 17, 2009 Members Share Posted June 17, 2009 I saw coldplay at ACL a few years ago and it was EASILY over 100 degrees and they had pants, shirts and jackets on. It shows a level of commitment, that's for sure. Very true. Plus, there's the option of shedding your jacket mid-set, rolling up sleeves, etc. Makes it look like you're working hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nobody Told Me Posted June 17, 2009 Members Share Posted June 17, 2009 I saw coldplay at ACL a few years ago... Did they play any Joe Satriani covers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted June 17, 2009 Members Share Posted June 17, 2009 There's a lot of middle ground beween a suit and shorts/tee. I've lived in and visited a lot of tropical places where you rarely see guys in shorts, only tourists. But anyway yeah, sure, at a certain level of heat/humidity you've gotta adjust how you dress. All I'm saying is that I find the movement towards middle aged guys wearing "kid clothes" to be kinda lame. If I am to be pilloried for that, fine. The main issue I have is that you are considering it FACT that shorts/cutoffs, t-shirts, and BB shoes and caps are considered "kids clothes". In a farming community I think you would be hardpressed to find a farmer not wearing a baseball style cap up to the day they leave the world. I just think your idea is weird that you consider shorts and tees to be kiddie clothes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted June 17, 2009 Members Share Posted June 17, 2009 I saw coldplay at ACL a few years ago and it was EASILY over 100 degrees and they had pants, shirts and jackets on. It shows a level of commitment, that's for sure.Lets see, shorts/tees = kiddie clothes but kiddie bands wear grownup clothes. I think I'm getting this figured out. Just think if Neil hadn't worn holy cutoffs all those times doing his Crazy Horse gigs. He coulda been famous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted June 17, 2009 Members Share Posted June 17, 2009 As someone else said, depends on the band/genre. But let me elaborate on something I mentioned earlier in the thread. I once saw Chris Isaak do an outdoor show, and the temp must have been pushing 100 degrees. The opening band belonged to his brother, Nick Isaak (who was pretty good, by the way.) Chris came out to do one song with his brother's band, but since he was only sitting in for one song, he was dressed casually: Khaki pants and an aloha shirt (as I said, Isaak's a guy that can actually pull this off). When he finished the song he said, "Thanks. I'll see you in a bit. I've got to go put on a wool suit." When his band came out, sure enough, he and the rest of his band were wearing very cool retro style suits. He even did a couple of wardrobe changes. (At one point, he donned a suit made entirely of small mirrors. He looked like a giant disco ball.) That really struck me as a mark of professionalism; that willingness to suffer a bit for the sake of the audience. In other words, he didn't shortchange the audience on the visual aspect of the show because of the heat. So, to answer your question, what should someone wear at an outdoor show, my answer is wear what you want. But my point is that I believe the audience really does appreciate it when you put some extra effort into your appearance, and it does help with the band's image.Isaak is as much "model" as musician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted June 17, 2009 Members Share Posted June 17, 2009 If you're playing in a hard rock band, "well-mannered" is probably the opposite image of what one wants to project, for example. Also, I'd point out that complaining that it seems like some folks think its "unmasculine" to dress nice is buying into the same sort of gender-assigned clothing rut as those who would do the other complaining There's a time and place for wearing a tie, I just don't think a rock show is that place. If you're playing a wedding, corp gig, sure, but... Rock has been as much a statement of choosing clothes that are "anti-fashion" as much as fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wallywanker Posted June 17, 2009 Members Share Posted June 17, 2009 i'm starting to sense that there's two (at least) crowds here...the `i'm a dignified professional and prefer to present 1+ from the crowd' crowd, and the `i'm with you guys (the crowd), lets rock it out and party down' crowd. i would almost guess that each camp has it's own audience, drawn to it by the attitude as well as the music... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted June 17, 2009 Members Share Posted June 17, 2009 The main issue I have is that you are considering it FACT that shorts/cutoffs, t-shirts, and BB shoes and caps are considered "kids clothes". In a farming community I think you would be hardpressed to find a farmer not wearing a baseball style cap up to the day they leave the world. I just think your idea is weird that you consider shorts and tees to be kiddie clothes. You would also see the farmer wearing a long sleeved shirt and jeans.:poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 You would also see the farmer wearing a long sleeved shirt and jeans.:poke:well, if its cold out. Lots of the more Charlie Daniels redneck farmers wear shorts when it is hot and humid around here. Nearly all wear tshirts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 Zzzzz....Another "Everything is relative" post.Of course there are absolutes when it comes to fashion.Men don't wear dresses or panty hose or girdles or bras. That is an absolute.Men used to dress with class and distinction. It was a way of showing they had some savoir faire and sophistication. They drank cocktails, not light beer.All that has been lost with the baby boomers, probably the un-coolest generation ever.Give me the Rat Pack any day over the 60's generation. Sorry Tele ... you can "Zzzz" all you want about my "everything is relative" post. That certainly doesn't change the reality that when it comes to fashion and wardrobe - it IS relative. That's why pretty all of that can afford more than 1 change of clothes have a closet that includes a variety of styles. Precisely so we CAN dress for the occasion. Even the example of "men in skirts, panty hose and bras" you've cited to support your argument is flawed. Perhaps Rue Paul hasn't made it to the hills of Tennessee quite yet. While it's certainly not MY look ... he certainly doesn't buy into your assessment that declaration that "Men don't wear dresses or panty hose or girdles or bras. That is an absolute!". Since the day you got your 2nd change of clothes - you've exercised choice to dress for the occasion. Granted - for many of us, they're few and far between - but there gig situations when shorts can be 100% appropriate. When the occasion is rig - who cares what the fashionistas think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Howie22 Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 What kinda of band, and how hot? All right, let's go with a few different scenarios. Let's assume it's outside at a bar. 90-ish degrees with high humidity. 1) Classic Rock/blues cover band 2) Dance/Party/80's band 3) Solo acoustic guy playing the typical bar covers 4) 90's alt rock cover band 5) Beach/Jimmy Buffett style band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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