Members venturehead Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 I have a "Band etiquette" question. This is the first band (of 3 that I've been in) where this is a regular occurrence. I'm in a garage band that plays out about once a month, we practice weekly, all covers. We all have day jobs and families, so there are weeks due to business travel or vacations where one or more of us are unavailable for practice or gigging. But we do play fairly regularly. I don't like for us to schedule a gig knowing that another band member can't make it. Some of the other band members feel it's ok to do so and just get someone else to play the missing members parts. I just don't agree with this, as I feel everyone in our band contributes something important, and can't be replaced easily with another player who hasn't been practicing with the band for a long period of time. I've been talked into playing a gig this way with one replacement, but I didn't like it, and will never ask the band to do so. So now I'm going out of town in a few weeks, and I find out the band has already scheduled a gig and have another guy ready to sit in and take my place. I'm really not cool with this, and I've told the rest of the band this when it has happened before. So here's my question: Is this a regular, normal thing to have happen in a band? Like I said, this is the first band I've been in where the other members are willing to do this. Or am I just being oversensitive? I don't want to play with any substitute band members, it kind of bothers me that they are so willing to do so when I'm not there. Also, to clarify, this is not a situation where one of us cancels out unexpectedly after the gig has been scheduled. To me that is a different situation. This is a situation where the gig is planned knowing that one member can't make it. Thanks for any input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scott Powell Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 i have always used subs when a member cant make the gig. I cant imagine cancelling a gig or not taking a gig because one member cant make it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 We use subs when necessary. It's not my favorite way to field a line-up, but sometimes necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 You didn't mention what instrument you play but if they can find fill in guitar players at the drop of a dime, salute! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members venturehead Posted July 14, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 Yeah, I would never propose cancelling an already-scheduled gig. To me that's different. But since we're not depending on gigs for income, I'd rather not take the gig than play with a substitute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarsjb Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 I wouldn't like it at all. I'm not in a cover band though..but I think a band is ALL members. I've read many threads where this works and works well though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fendercaster Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 For cover bands, I don't see a problem. I've used fill ins before and have been a fill in many times. I'll miss five jobs when I'm on vacation next month; I'm glad that there are subs out there; I'd hate for the band to miss out on those jobs just because I'll be out of town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassred Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 I just did a weekend with a friends band. Nothing out of the ordinary. I showed up and played, jammed the crap out of some material that is different that what I play and made some dough.. (so I benefited more than just the $$) . The rest of the band got to play and make their $$, so they benefited. WIn/Win situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 i have always used subs when a member cant make the gig. I cant imagine cancelling a gig or not taking a gig because one member cant make it +1.... I do fill-in work for other local bands on a semi-regular basis... I'm not looking to leave my own band, nor take anyone else's spot in another band - so, everyone's cool with it... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scott Powell Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 +1.... I do fill-in work for other local bands on a semi-regular basis... I'm not looking to leave my own band, nor take anyone else's spot in another band - so, everyone's cool with it... - georgestrings same here. i am on very good terms with some other bands and they know i'm not looking to ass anyone out or quit my band. i just love playing,and its FUN to play with people you dont play with on a regular basis. keeps me on my toes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rockerdiva Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 I'd sub in somebody if a band member couldn't make a gig due to an emergency. We don't book gigs unless all members are available. We have never had to turn down anything, but hey, people do schedule vacations and such. We just aren't gonna do it with a sub unless it were already booked and there is an emergency. After we are all committed, I mean it better be a real emergency or a serious illness that causes someone to cancel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 We play 2-3 times a week, every week. For us to not use any subs, we'd have to not have a single weekend off or take a single vacation all year. Not gonna happen. We're a 3-piece, and we occasionally use a 4th member on lead guitar when the gig calls for it. If he can't make it, no big deal. If one of the "core" guys can't make it (except for the lead singer), no big deal, we get a sub. If either the lead singer (since his name is out front) or the other two (since that's the entire rest of the band, essentially) can't make it, we reschedule and call the date off. Our biggest problem with getting subs in is the fact that we carry and set up our own PA system at each gig. Our bassist can't make a gig at the end of this month, and he owns the trailer that holds the equipment. So not only do we need a sub, we need to get the trailer to the gig and set up with two people (since you can't really make a flat-rate sub player set up the PA and light rigs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tim_7string Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 Until I moved to the GF/EGF area a few years ago, I rarely used subs. Whenever we did, it was almost always a disaster. Seemed like the subs would have a vastly different style from the guy they were filling in for, so it never flowed right and felt awkward. But since moving here, I notice that it is pretty commonplace. Unfortunately, that also means that most of the bands all sound the same, playing the same songs in the same style. It makes it easier for other bandmembers to slide right in, but it makes the whole scene sound generic to me. I'm with the OP. I prefer to have a band with those same three/four/five guys, every time. But as I'm getting older, I'm finding that people my age have family commitments and are less likely to play only in one group. Because of this, I realize the practicality of knowing a lot of different drummers and bass players. I look at it this way. When I can't make it to work for a few hours (or a day or two) at my day job, the supervisor fills in for me and operates the line. He is basically my substitute for that period of time. Work isn't going to stop just because I'm suddenly ill or something. To the OP: If it bothers you that much, you should discuss it some more with the band. If you find that they pretty much agree that subs are fine and you are the only voice of dissension, your choices are basically to deal with it or find another group of people that think the way you do. I think the latter option would be best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members venturehead Posted July 14, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 Thanks everyone for the responses. I really wanted to see if my thoughts on this were reasonable, or if this was a common practice. It sounds like it's fairly common, so I'm good with that. I still would prefer that we play as a band, and I'll mention that again to the group, but it's not a deal breaker, I love playing with these guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 I had already scheduled to move my Mother to a nursing home and the band booked two gigs. I arranged for a friend to sit in on keys. He ended up in the hospital and they brought in a different musician to handle the gigs with 48 hours warning. No one freaked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 You guys only gig once a month and you still need subs? Seems that if it's that hard to pin you all down to one day a month, there's really no other way for the band to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flogger59 Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 I sit in all the time with different bands. I drew the line at one bunch (had played regularly with them previously, quit due to band drama, they had been together since high school 40 years ago) who called me in September asking if I would sub for rehearsals (unpaid) for the gig in February, that someone else would get to play. Excuse me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 Using subs is a really common thing for cover bands, and no big deal. There are likely plenty of musicians in town who already know the material and can just jump in and play it. That doesn't usually work for original bands, but cover bands (particularly those who are really serious and doing it for income) do it all the time. And GCDEF is right - if you guys already only play once a month, and still have trouble pinning everybody down, you'll never get to play out if you always wait for everyone to be available. I can understand why you prefer to play with the regular lineup and you should always try to do that, but it doesn't sound like the band is anybody's #1 priority, so the reality is if you're going to play out with any regularity you will probably have to use subs. And the other guys probably like the idea because it puts less pressure on them to have to be there. Sounds like all of you have lots of other pressures (family, jobs) and don't want the band to be just another source of stress - using subs gives you a way to have fun and yet not feel like it's another obligation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Austincowbell Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 We've used subs for every band member other than myself, but I'm the singer so I get to stay. When you have a band where everyone has a job and a life it is impossible for everyone to make every show so subs can be a very necessary part of the game. In our case, it can be fun to have a sub every once in a while just because of the slight change it makes in our sound. I am getting the subtext of what you're saying which is a fear of being replaced but if you are cool about it and play well when you are there its nothing to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members samkokajko Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 Also consider the fun factor. For a cover band it can get to be kinda monotone doing the same songs all the time. Every now and then it's really fun to change things up a little and bring in a player (who is probably a really good one if he's getting hired for a one nighter to come and play). It brings a new energy to the group. He's not replacing you. He couldn't. That's what makes you a band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sorocknroll Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 Depends on how much pride you take in your band. If you're just a bunch of guys jamming for spare cash, then what's the difference? But if you want to make a name for yourself as a fun, fresh and good cover band in your city, you need to have your band be represented by its members, not subs. On the other hand, you always want to keep your word to a venue and sub someone in if something should come up at the last minute, rather than become "one of those bands that cancel." We had a situation where our bassist got his feathers ruffled with the bar owner over the way payment was handled. The rest of the band didn't find it as offensive. Our bassist didn't want to play the next gig we had set up there, but the rest of us did. We got a sub. At the end of that gig, the owner wanted to set up another show. I told him we'd have to find a monetary agreement that everyone was happy with first. I don't want people or bar owners to see our band on stage and make assessments if it's not really the proper representation of our band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flanc Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 We don't book gigs when we know a band member will be unavailable; we also play 50-60 gigs a year with that understanding (which is as busy as we all want to be). However, if life events cause a member to become unavailable for a previously committed engagement, we try to get a sub. Me wife and I co-front our band and own all the gear/lights. If both of us can't make it...we cancel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 Subs can work out for some bands,,,, they wont with others. It all depends on who you need to get a sub for and the setlist. I had a sub job for the summer with an event band. They were a 60s horn band tribute outfit with alot of key driven stuff. I got hired,,, spent two weeks 5 hours a day gunning the set list and went down with an old rotator cuff injury where it was obvious to me that I stood a good chance of not being able to make it through the summer. I bowed out ,, and their second choice for the sub job took on the challenge. They are getting through the gigs ,, but from what one of the guys said ,, its been a struggle for him. I can see that because it was a big challenge to me as well. It was one that i could have met , but I did not feel that it was professional to take a chance of doing more damage to my right should and then end up letting them down. I played in a very similar band when i was young. No way could a sub have walked into that band. Three singers and a horn section. No one in town did the set list we did. we never had to cancel in the almost two years that band was together ,, but we did have to play when we were sick with colds etc to pullt that off. The set list is everything when you start talkin subs.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tucktronix Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 I believe that(for cover bands) a lot of it has to do with the arrangement or setlist. Over the years, I have successfully subbed on keys for several bands. These are mostly bands whose shows I've attended and sat in with from time to time and as a result became pretty familiar with all of the dynamics, intros, any weird chord changes, endings, etc. Also, it helps if the sub has a repertoire of songs he/she is already familiar with, which would make life a lot easier for the band he/she is subbing for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratMonster Posted July 14, 2009 Members Share Posted July 14, 2009 We have used fill ins but I personally hate it. Not that the guys are bad or untalented. But two things here, 1. Most guys come in as a "slinger" type attitude and think they are above criticism, or refuse to play a song as the band normally does a song.2. Its usually done with no practice and everyone in the band plays on pins and needles not knowing just how its (the gig) going to go over.But like I said, we have done it allot and lived to tell the tale.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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