Substitute/Fill-ins for absent band members?

[MusicalSchizo]

I've subbed and used subs.

 

We just had our old drummer sub for us this past weekend because our current drummer was sick. It worked out great because he knows all the songs (and learned the ones we'd added since then in the four days before we played the show).

 

In our current band, we don't book the show if one of us isn't available. It's been that way in every band with whom I've been a regular member. Sometimes between booking and the show things come up, and you figure out a way to keep the show from being cancelled, because venues and clients hate that.

 

I have high standards for fill-ins, because I've been one and always held myself to a very high standard in that department, so the show should go pretty much unchanged when we have a fill-in. It's RARE, though.

 

The easiest way to survive if you have a tendency to need fill-ins is to always learn the arrangements as similar to the originals as possible OR provide recordings of how your band does it - it makes everything easier, because then the fill-in can do their homework more easily.

 

If you guys aren't playing frequent shows and need to have fill-ins, that's not good. Planning ahead is the best medicine for that - if someone can't make the shows regularly, or is unwilling to change changeable aspects of their own schedule to accommodate the rest of the band, then it's time for them to step aside.

 

Good luck!

Brian V.

[boxorox]

Enough with the jealousy and man love/band love. A Gig is a Gig. If you want to get ahead (based on what you said), you can't be turning down or cancelling gigs. Maybe you all could communicate better, coordinate your time off if possible.

In my experiance, a sub is just a sub. Usually they are good enough they don't want to be tied to a band. They can name their price. I've had to pay subs double what the band members get. I don't get paid then, but the show goes on, the booking is renewed. Good business for the band. Subs don't wanna practice. They can screw up arrangements and they don't really care. The band does the hard work. They're mercenaries. So the band would rather have good ol' dependable you back.

So don't fear the occasional sub. Not being smug here, but if I am scheduled out of town for gig night, they have to hire two guys, one for leads, one for vocals. I bring 'em back T-Shirts. Everybody's happy.

[tim_7string]

 

In my experiance, a sub is just a sub. Usually they are good enough they don't want to be tied to a band. They can name their price. I've had to pay subs double what the band members get. I don't get paid then, but the show goes on, the booking is renewed. Good business for the band. Subs don't wanna practice. They can screw up arrangements and they don't really care. The band does the hard work. They're mercenaries. So the band would rather have good ol' dependable you back. So don't fear the occasional sub. Not being smug here, but if I am scheduled out of town for gig night, they have to hire two guys, one for leads, one for vocals. I bring 'em back T-Shirts. Everybody's happy.

 

 

I guess my experience is different, speaking as a sub at one time. I worked dilligently on the band songs, then had to re-learn them in a different key, before I was actually hired as a bandmember for that band later. I can see how some people would just show up, play how they play and never play again, but the subs I have worked with all wanted to lock in with the band and tried to listen to the way the band played the songs, every time. Sorry to hear your experiences have not been as pleasant.

[boxorox]

Well, not unpleasant. If I sub, I practice at home and rehearse with the band. I still don't want the job permanantly. The subs we've had to use are truly excellent, professional musicians. A half-assed sub is worse than none at all. Point was that 1) Sometimes taking a job to keep the band's profile high and clubs happy is very important. 2) Subs we us are doing this as pros, studio work, etc. They don't need the pay cut and extra work it takes to be in a band. 3) Your band wants someone who is motivated and has a stake, a real interest in the band. Someone they work well with and knows the music intimately. That's the OP. I was trying to point out to the OP that subs are sometimes necessary and good business, and they won't steal your job. So don't fear the sub.

I'd rather not use a sub, but if you must... I suppose at some point you can't. Wouldn't want to see The Stones if Mick and Keef were in the hospital would ya?

[tim_7string]

 

Well, not unpleasant. If I sub, I practice at home and rehearse with the band. I still don't want the job permanantly. The subs we've had to use are truly excellent, professional musicians. A half-assed sub is worse than none at all. Point was that 1) Sometimes taking a job to keep the band's profile high and clubs happy is very important. 2) Subs we us are doing this as pros, studio work, etc. They don't need the pay cut and extra work it takes to be in a band. 3) Your band wants someone who is motivated and has a stake, a real interest in the band. Someone they work well with and knows the music intimately. That's the OP. I was trying to point out to the OP that subs are sometimes necessary and good business, and they won't steal your job. So don't fear the sub. I'd rather not use a sub, but if you must... I suppose at some point you can't. Wouldn't want to see The Stones if Mick and Keef were in the hospital would ya?

 

 

I think the standards of your subs are probably much higher than they are in my area, so the feelings towards them would probably be different too.

 

You have the same outlook on bands that I do. I want every single member to have a stake in the band and be motivated to make that band the best frickin' band it can be. Unfortunately, I only have that in myself, kinda in my girlfriend, a bit in my friend and not at all in my drummer (currently sharing him with another local rock band). So, it's frustrating. I have always been an advocate about seeing THAT person with THAT band. Knowing what I'm getting.

 

It seems like a few bands around here can never keep the same bandmembers, while others have been together for years, even decades. I don't consider the first group a "band" because they are simply unstable if their lineup constantly changes. There is a band around here that has been together with the same three guys for 20 years and the original two guys have been together for 25! Now that's longevity!

 

Regarding the Mick and Keef simile, I doubt anyone would see The Rolling Stones if either one of those two were not present. But if someone subbed for Charlie Watts or Ron Wood, I don't think the outcry would be as bad.

[tshapiro]

My band uses subs all the time. We keep a very busy working schedule and there's no way everyone could make every show. We hardly go 2 shows in a row with just the core members.

 

One thing you may consider is to have band members learn the parts on several different instruments. Most of my band can play 2 or 3 instruments. In my band I'm the keyboard player but I'm the best guitarist out of the bunch. My bassist is the best keyboard player and drummer. This helps ensure you've always got the bases covered if you're going to book paying shows on a regular basis. We never, ever, turn down a money show. We have actually fielded 2 versions of the band because we had 2 great gig opportunities at the same time.

[tim_7string]

 

My band uses subs all the time. We keep a very busy working schedule and there's no way everyone could make every show. We hardly go 2 shows in a row with just the core members. One thing you may consider is to have band members learn the parts on several different instruments. Most of my band can play 2 or 3 instruments. In my band I'm the keyboard player but I'm the best guitarist out of the bunch. My bassist is the best keyboard player and drummer. This helps ensure you've always got the bases covered if you're going to book paying shows on a regular basis. We never, ever, turn down a money show. We have actually fielded 2 versions of the band because we had 2 great gig opportunities at the same time.

 

 

Back in 1990, my band played an outdoor party. I had to play drums for an hour and the lead guitarist played bass when 2/5ths of our band didn't show up right away. Our lead singer played guitar in the band anyway, so we sounded fine for that first hour (thankfully, we had all the band equipment in our band bus). When the drummer finally showed, I switched to bass guitar/keyboards (keys was my main instrument) and the lead guitarist went back to lead. The bassist never showed all night. Versatility is definitely handy!

[elsongs]

It's always a good idea to have subs for your band, cover or original.

 

Always network enough that you know enough musicians who can adequately sub for you. Or, if you're in an original band, get to make friends (instead of rivals) with similar bands in your genre -- that way you can borrow one of them for a gig, and it would help promote both of your bands when you have that sub gig for them -- you can promote it as "[band name], with special guest _{from [another band], one night only!" That way, you can potentially get some of the other band's crowd to come to your gig.}

[elsongs]

 

My band uses subs all the time. We keep a very busy working schedule and there's no way everyone could make every show. We hardly go 2 shows in a row with just the core members. One thing you may consider is to have band members learn the parts on several different instruments. Most of my band can play 2 or 3 instruments. In my band I'm the keyboard player but I'm the best guitarist out of the bunch. My bassist is the best keyboard player and drummer. This helps ensure you've always got the bases covered if you're going to book paying shows on a regular basis. We never, ever, turn down a money show. We have actually fielded 2 versions of the band because we had 2 great gig opportunities at the same time.

 

 

This is a great idea too, I'm a keyboardist, but my 2nd instrument is bass, so one summer when our bassist was out of the country, I played bass for a gig and picked the right songs that weren't as keyboard-heavy so the guitarist could carry the chordal stuff. I had a lot of fun doing it and (since I'm the singer too), playing bass while singing the songs I normally play keys on was a good challenge for me.

[MusicalSchizo]

Complete sidebar:

We tried to have a lineup with a few multi-instrumentalists in it back before we became a trio.

 

At the time, I was playing bass, and had moved over to singing lead. We hired a guy to play bass and some keyboards so I could concentrate on singing and playing guitar.

 

Unfortunately, he didn't get that we didn't care if he played keyboards right away - we were going to add them later - and he decided he would play keys, so he had only learned two of three sets (30 of 50 songs) on bass by the time we played our first gig with him (a month later). All the while he was whining about the songs.

 

We finally decided to just let him go because it wasn't working. I think he pretty much hates us now. But I was really hoping we'd have a situation where we could swap instruments and really fill things out - to have a bass sub IN the band.

 

Didn't happen...but it still would be cool to have a guy like that in the band.

Brian V.

[tim_7string]

 

Complete sidebar: We tried to have a lineup with a few multi-instrumentalists in it back before we became a trio. At the time, I was playing bass, and had moved over to singing lead. We hired a guy to play bass and some keyboards so I could concentrate on singing and playing guitar. Unfortunately, he didn't get that we didn't care if he played keyboards right away - we were going to add them later - and he decided he would play keys, so he had only learned two of three sets (30 of 50 songs) on bass by the time we played our first gig with him (a month later). All the while he was whining about the songs. We finally decided to just let him go because it wasn't working. I think he pretty much hates us now. But I was really hoping we'd have a situation where we could swap instruments and really fill things out - to have a bass sub IN the band. Didn't happen...but it still would be cool to have a guy like that in the band. Brian V.

 

 

Some of the longest-lasting bands I've seen were trios (guitar/bass/drums), in the immediate area and also well-known bands (Rush, ZZ Top). There is probably something to that. Less egos, easier to get together to play, etc. etc.

 

I started as a keyboardist and got a handle on bass guitar early on, as well as singing. I too would love to switch to a band where I played vocals/guitar, had a lead guitarist, a bass guitarist/keyboardist and drummer, but it doesn't seem likely. I can do bass fairly well and I'm a lot better on keys, so even though the bass strings hurt my hands, a vocals/bass (me)-guitar-drums band would probably last a lot longer than a vocals/guitar (me)-bass-drums band would.

[boxorox]

I think there's a point in every band's life/evolution where you can't turn down or cancel gigs. So sometimes you just gotta have a sub.

[JAFH]

We've done this fairly often, and it always works out. We just happen to have the good fortune of knowing enough quality musicians that can pick up quickly. As a matter of fact, we are rehearsing our "regular fill-in" female lead singer tonight for a gig tomorrow.