Members Tele-vania65000 Posted November 2, 2009 Members Share Posted November 2, 2009 I'm a firm believer that bands need leadership - not a titular leader. I agree. It can be a dude, also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TrickyBoy Posted November 2, 2009 Members Share Posted November 2, 2009 I think unless your Brian Setzer or something, the concept of "band leader" is really unnecessary. That being said, I've never been in a band that didn't have someone that was more dominant in terms of the creative direction of a band.In my current band, I'd definitely say that that's me. I sing and play guitar in a cover band trio - and right or wrong, if I can't sing it, we ain't doin' it. So I tend to bring the majority of the songs we do to the table. Also, we do a lot of rearranging (or as I like to say f***ing up) of the covers we do - I get bored playing songs as originally recorded - and I do all of the rearrangements prior to introducing them to the band.However, if the other two listen to what I came up with and go "Dude that sucks" (which happens) or "We're not doing an f***in' Miley Cyrus song (I couldn't slip that one by them), we don't do it - no hard feelings. I come up with ridiculous ideas sometimes - some work real well, and others, well.... you know. Also, I don't consider my arrangements "set in stone". After I introduce the rough idea, we collaborate to develop the final product.Anyway, my feeling is if we sat around and voted on what songs we we were going to do, then voted on how to arrange them, etc. etc. we might add 2 songs a year. I think its infinitely more efficient to have one member "take the lead" with the understanding that he/she is not the ultimate "leader".Not sure if anything that I just wrote made sense to y'all. :blah: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted November 2, 2009 Members Share Posted November 2, 2009 Being in a cover band, I'm not interested in "creative direction". Well, let's just say that this isn't a primary concern of mine. But I am very interested in gigs. Gigs have a funny way of solidifying the creative direction: lack of gigs seems to lead to dispute over which is the proper creative direction. Conversely, a good success rate in terms of being asked back speaks for itself: anybody that would argue for a big change in "creative direction" while the band is getting steady gigs is IMO being foolish and would not last too long in a band with me. To me, the leader is the one that represents the band and pulls down the gigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boomboomdrums Posted November 2, 2009 Members Share Posted November 2, 2009 To me, the leader is the one that represents the band and pulls down the gigs. This is what I think too, and in my band it's me, but I'm not the leader. The "leader" is the guy who started the band and makes all decisions as it relates to song selection, set lists, if we record etc. He kind of leads by brute force and a couple of the other guys follow because he started the band. My mind is about 90% made to quit after he fired our keyboard player without even consulting with the rest of the band. Bit it really is a good band ... The problem with being in a band is having to deal with musicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TrickyBoy Posted November 2, 2009 Members Share Posted November 2, 2009 Being in a cover band, I'm not interested in "creative direction". Well, let's just say that this isn't a primary concern of mine. But I am very interested in gigs. Gigs have a funny way of solidifying the creative direction: lack of gigs seems to lead to dispute over which is the proper creative direction. Conversely, a good success rate in terms of being asked back speaks for itself: anybody that would argue for a big change in "creative direction" while the band is getting steady gigs is IMO being foolish and would not last too long in a band with me. To me, the leader is the one that represents the band and pulls down the gigs. I'm right there with you. Getting gigs is the name of the game. We have been very fortunate that each time we've played (and we have only been playing out as this band for about 4 months, so the sample size is limited), we have scheduled our next gig before leaving that night, and because of that, the direction of the band ain't changing at all. My main job when it comes to "creative direction" is finding and arranging more songs that fit into what we are doing now.I guess I was just looking at this whole concept from a different point of view. Usually when I think of a "band leader", I think of someone trying to dictate to the other members how to play their instruments. I'm not sure how you feel about this, but I would last for about one rehearsal in this type of situation unless said leader was paying my bills.To your final point, while I might argue that the person who represents the band and pulls down the gigs may not be the "leader" per se, without that person, there is no band (or at least no gigging band, I can only rehearse for so long), so... Dammit, I'm talking in circles again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JesterNVA Posted November 2, 2009 Members Share Posted November 2, 2009 It's going to vary from band to band, situation to situation. Some bands might benefit from one person being a "leader" whereas other bands might benefit more from different members taking the "lead" in different aspects of the band (ie song selection, getting gigs, promotion, web maintenance, merch, etc). It all depends on the personalities of those involved. There are some people who simply can't "lead", and likewise - there are some who simply can't "follow". My band pretty much shares leadership duties. We each present ideas/suggestions to the each other on an individual level, but we decide the direction of the band as a whole. Works out well IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wro Posted November 3, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 3, 2009 Someone has to take the lead when appropriate, but leave space for the others to do the same when they feel like. When does the "leader" become a "dictator" in your opinion ? To me it is when he starts to tell everybody what and how to play, although they do not really need it. I see most of you are the "leaders" in your bands. For the ones who are just "members", how do you feel about being lead ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted November 3, 2009 Members Share Posted November 3, 2009 I see most of you are the "leaders" in your bands. For the ones who are just "members", how do you feel about being lead ? No different than being "lead" by my boss at work. At work and in the band, I establish my "territory" - I contribute where ever I can and do so consistently. I strive to get towards a situation of mutual respect and co-operation - that way nobody has to be "lead" and there is little if any struggle. In other words, we all share the same goals and for the most part all of us contribute in our own predictable way to those goals. For example, I try and keep my eye on other local bands - where and what they play: I'll e-mail Tim venue information with specific info about bands known to play there. This has resulted in several gigs for the band, including our upcoming VFW gig in Nov. I've also arranged to have a professional photographer at our next gig, so that we can have good quality footage for our demo. But I still publicly defer to Tim as the de-facto "leader", because he is the man getting us the gigs - and somebody has to break "ties" and set ultimatums or end discussions as needed. All in all I'd compare it to working in a corporate environment - a good structure coupled with a relaxed atmosphere and goal-oriented framework makes for a positive experience all around. It sounds harder than it is: the goals and a little bit of structure actually remove a lot of stress and pressure, compared to "winging it" with a group of people that don't have the real-world experience of being a member of an effective team. Bottom line: it's nice being able to e-mail Tim directly about gig or other suggestions, without worrying about some whiny b**h thinking there's a hidden motive there. So like I said: people that have REAL WORLD experience of working collaboratively can really make a band happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tacdryver Posted November 3, 2009 Members Share Posted November 3, 2009 BB is the boss Malcom is the boss Gene was the boss Bruce is the boss I have been told...'hire the band' ....given all the {censored} ups I have dealt with I may just pay $20 a night to some local talent to get out MY sound, MY setlist, MY stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted November 3, 2009 Members Share Posted November 3, 2009 given all the {censored} ups I have dealt with I may just pay $20 a night to some local talent to get out MY sound, MY setlist, MY stuff... $20 won't get me off the couch bro. Try $75 MINIMUM, and that's if I like you and your music. And I'm not a "top-shelf" player by any means: you want one of THOSE guys, well - you better add a zero to that number there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted November 3, 2009 Moderators Share Posted November 3, 2009 I see most of you are the "leaders" in your bands. For the ones who are just "members", how do you feel about being lead ? In the situation I've been in where I'm basically in the "member" role and there's clearly someone whose "band it is", I don't have to worry about booking, checking email, setlists, scheduling.... I just show and play and do what's needed of me. As long as I like the people and the music enough, I can be quite content in that role. In fact, I've even done it for free (or nearly so) if I knew there wasn't, at that point, any cash to go around and I was still really into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slight-return Posted November 3, 2009 Members Share Posted November 3, 2009 I see most of you are the "leaders" in your bands. For the ones who are just "members", how do you feel about being lead ? Kind of like what Wades said -- not really different than being lead in other situations (by a boss at another type of work, by a dive master, etc)and abt how acationsuid feel (doesn't bug me - just a different role with different challenges and responsibilities) When does the "leader" become a "dictator" in your opinion ? To me it is when he starts to tell everybody what and how to play, although they do not really need it. It that "although they do not really need it" can be the interpretive rub (Guy A thinks direction is needed, guy B thinks it isn't) the disconnect often happens a step or two earlier than is readily apparent and that's one of the areas that separates good leaders from not-so-good...how those waters are navigated The question sounds a bit more-than-abstract -- so what's you on in your current situation that's buggin ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3shiftgtr Posted November 3, 2009 Members Share Posted November 3, 2009 I heard this once as a definition of all great leaders.... "A great leader is merely one who gives other people an opportunity to do their best." Notice the lack of 'ate's...motivate, pontificate, delineate, berate, prostate.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dessalines Posted November 3, 2009 Members Share Posted November 3, 2009 The answer to "does EVERY band need a leader?" is definitely "no"... it really all depends on the individuals involved.I was in a band that was basically democratic, and while it wasn't always easy, we were good friends and pretty like-minded to start with, and we're all reasonable people. It worked out great overall, we were pretty successful, and it lasted eight years. Some things took longer to accomplish because we make some effort to reach consensus, sure, but one of our strengths was that that because we all had so much of a stake in the band, we all put a lot of energy into it. The thing that it boils down to for me, is that with GOOD leadership comes responsibility. For example, now I'm in a band where I'm definitely "the leader". So while I have the final say in things and, in the end, decide the direction of the band, I also have the responsibility of the songwriting, booking, scheduling, etc, and I also pay a bigger share of recording/pressing costs. When youre the one putting the most into it, you have a lot more credibility being the one calling the shots.By the same token... I also play drums in a band where prett much all I have to do is show up and play. And in that case, I'm quite content to be a follower. +1. It depends on the situations and the personalities involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wro Posted November 9, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 9, 2009 "A great leader is merely one who gives other people an opportunity to do their best." That is the situation I am NOT in, colleagues. Folks just want to do their stuff, their way. No compromises. The problem is not dealing with booking, emails and set lists. It is the music itself. "Play a G7+ !!!! It must be G7+ not G7 or G, and the arpeggio pattern should be like this, with some reverb bla bla bla..." or "no chorus here, we'll do a break instead" etc... Is this a (good) leader ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tinker925 Posted November 9, 2009 Members Share Posted November 9, 2009 Someone has to take the lead when appropriate, but leave space for the others to do the same when they feel like.When does the "leader" become a "dictator" in your opinion ? To me it is when he starts to tell everybody what and how to play, although they do not really need it.QUOTE]To me... its when teh leader starts dictating and not listening - they make decisions without getting band involvement - as if they are in a solo project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted November 10, 2009 Members Share Posted November 10, 2009 "A great leader is merely one who gives other people an opportunity to do their best."That is the situation I am NOT in, colleagues. Folks just want to do their stuff, their way. No compromises. The problem is not dealing with booking, emails and set lists. It is the music itself. "Play a G7+ !!!! It must be G7+ not G7 or G, and the arpeggio pattern should be like this, with some reverb bla bla bla..." or "no chorus here, we'll do a break instead" etc...Is this a (good) leader ? There are no absolute rights and wrongs with regards to what you've described. If you were playing classical - you wouldn't question the need to play it exactly as it's written. There are some bands that expect that same degree of exactness in other genres as well. The question you have to answer is whether that's degree of exactness is what your band is all about. If it is - then you have to decide if it's the right band for you. In practical terms - I'd first seek to determine if that is what the band's expection is. If it is - it's up to you to decide if you're willing to live within those confines and then do what you gotta do. If it isn't the band's expectation and simply a single member on a power trip - you simply need to tighten him up on where his bounds are with regards to dictating artistic interpretation to the rest of the band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members niceguy Posted November 10, 2009 Members Share Posted November 10, 2009 "A great leader is merely one who gives other people an opportunity to do their best." That is the situation I am NOT in, colleagues. Folks just want to do their stuff, their way. No compromises. The problem is not dealing with booking, emails and set lists. It is the music itself. "Play a G7+ !!!! It must be G7+ not G7 or G, and the arpeggio pattern should be like this, with some reverb bla bla bla..." or "no chorus here, we'll do a break instead" etc... Is this a (good) leader ? Well, you're looking for a collaborative situation, and you're clearly not in a collaborative situation. I write all the music for my band, and my bandmates never try changing the chords or arrangement. And that's the way we all like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.