This guy is going to put all you Cookie Monster "singers" out of business

[BlueStrat]

Of course my metal is mostly black and power/traditional.

 

Ha ha! There's two words you don't often see together...traditional and metal!:poke:

 

 

 

[Kramerguy]

I like the dethclock cartoon, the music is fitting to the storylines, and it's funny as hell - they mock modern metal as much as play it - but they've also shown that they can be melodic when needed. I can respect that.

I still don't like the vocals, but will respect it for what it is. So I apologize if I mocked anyones music

[ForgetMeNacht]

Ha ha! There's two words you don't often see together... traditional and metal !:poke:

goes to show how old metal has become

[Dthraco]

I said it was {censored}ty singing. I still say it.

 

 

Late to the thread. Agree 110%.

 

The rooster is hilarious in the OP!

 

After gigging for 10 years in the Seattle area, I refuse to gig with a band that has a screamer/growler. Every time one of them is on the bill, we know it will be a {censored}ty gig. Because as soon as the guy starts screaming...poof...everybody leaves.

 

There is a small group of people who like that {censored}, but I'm not one of them. I tried very hard to appreciate that vocal style, but I can't. It is {censored}ty singing and ruins the music that is often times played by some pretty stellar players.

 

It's like someone rubbing peanut butter on my ass while I'm trying to have sex with a super model. Just ruins the whole experience.

[GreenAsJade]

Watching that chick sing made me nauseous.

 

 

+1

 

This could of course be the aim, in which case it succeeded!

[Zeromus-X]

 

Tune the guitars to E, and have a singer actually sing melodic verses and choruses... it will be so shocking that it should be an instant record deal. Although the concept may be so off-the-beaten-path that the world may not be ready for such forward thinking. be prepared to be mocked by those who can't stray from the formula!

 

 

Been done. S.O.D. played a show in Jersey that I went to about ten years ago and after a few songs made the comment that "all those songs were tuned to E so {censored} you to everyone who says you need to detune to be heavy!" Awesome band, if you haven't heard of them.

 

Here's 54 seconds of their awesomeness.

 

lQUzyPqL6kM

[tim_7string]

 

Yeah, or you could be even crazier like Metallica did on their early albums and tune slightly sharp, getting closer to F than E, just for the tighter sound it gave their guitars.

 

I'm kind of a strange cat. I was way into newave/synthpop music in the early 80s, then got into pop/metal (Ratt, Twisted Sister, Dokken), then by the late 80s when I graduated from high school, I suddenly got into thrash. Metallica, Anthrax, Megadeth, etc. By the early 90s, I was a huge SOD fan, obsessed with GODFLESH, loved Prong, Helmet, Biohazard, Cro-Mags and other groups with less than stellar vocals.

 

For me, it was all about loving the music, despite the cookie monster-ish vocals. I liked the heavy guitars, thick bass and powerful drums. I was always like, "Oh well, I guess they couldn't find a singer" when I heard the vocals of a lot of the heavy bands I liked. Although, I do like Billy Milano's voice and he's a funny as hell smartass frontman. He definitely doesn't fit that category of CM.

 

I try to respect all forms of music, whether I personally enjoy them or not. Obviously, a lot of bands that have those singers sell records, so there are fans that enjoy them. Whatever floats their boat.

[Zeromus-X]

Yeah, Milano definitely isn't a growler, but they're a heavy band and they don't scream and tune low. Everything's been done before by someone.

 

And to the "If you can't tell Beyonce and Kelly Clarkson apart you might as well quit music" thing... I could say the same about Himsa and We Were Gentlemen to you. And since you don't listen to them, you won't know who's who, obviously. But what you will hear is that while both of them are growlers/screamers, they're tonally nowhere near each other. They use different styles, they project differently. And most importantly, the harmonies are different for each band. That's what many people don't seem to understand about some of these bands -- they remove the harmony aspect from the vocalist and instead put it somewhere else, such as having a melodic dual lead guitar track or something similar. That's what makes the bands identifiable and not all sounding the same.

 

I'm not saying none of them sound the same, but that's the case in any genre. How many bands sound like Green Day if you're not a fan? Can you tell the difference between Flo-Rida and T-Pain and Lil' Wayne?

[ChordGirl]

I wish that chick would've just sung the whole time over the second vid. That would've made the music good to my ears. Instead, she replaced that beautiful, powerful voice with those {censored}ty tones.

I can't get past the cookie monster vocals in order to listen to the music, either. What other genre would expect the listener to 'ignore' a part (a pretty important part, I might add) in order to be able to palate the music?

[Zeromus-X]

I didn't say ignore. The vocalist is musically shifted to less of a lead role, and another instrument fills in. In general.

[tim_7string]

 

I didn't say ignore. The vocalist is musically shifted to less of a lead role, and another instrument fills in. In general.

 

 

This is how I view this kind of music too. I'm not sure if everyone else does, but my focus is definitely not on the vocals for these kinds of bands.

[BlueStrat]

 

I'm not saying none of them sound the same, but that's the case in any genre. How many bands sound like Green Day if you're not a fan? Can you tell the difference between Flo-Rida and T-Pain and Lil' Wayne?

No, but you have just swerved into the point. Rapping, like 'growling,' is not singing. It is a narrowly defined genre of trying to sound like the other guys doing it while being just different enough to not get sued.

 

It is easy to tell the difference between R. Kelly and Marvin Gaye because they're singing. Rappers are speaking, not singing, making the distinctions much narrower.

[Blackbird 13]

No, but you have just swerved into the point. Rapping, like 'growling,' is not singing. It is a narrowly defined genre of trying to sound like the other guys doing it while being just different enough to not get sued. It is easy to tell the difference between R. Kelly and Marvin Gaye because they're singing. Rappers are speaking, not singing, making the distinctions much narrower.

 

 

I'm not the world's biggest rap fan either, but you can tell the difference in rappers. And someone like Eminem, Jay Z, or Twista is just plain more talented than someone like Ja Rule.

 

And really, it's all an extension of something else, musical evolution. There's long been screaming in music. Can you tell the guys in AC/DC that there's no musical art to screaming? It's just musical evolution.. and while it may not be the way everyone saw it evolving.. that's how it goes!

[rotebass]

No, but you have just swerved into the point. Rapping, like 'growling,' is not singing. It is a narrowly defined genre of trying to sound like the other guys doing it while being just different enough to not get sued. It is easy to tell the difference between R. Kelly and Marvin Gaye because they're singing. Rappers are speaking, not singing, making the distinctions much narrower.

Your posts get more and more ridiculous all the time.

And for the record, don't own any Nickelback records, although I think my friends Jonas Brothers cd is in my van. But before you go and make false assumptions, you would probably have to consider the Brian Wilcox, Pink Floyd, Queen, Johnny Cash, Beatles, Bob Marley, etc that grace my collection.

[BlueStrat]

Your posts get more and more ridiculous all the time.

How so?

 

Do you not see how it would be easier for rappers sound more alike than singers do? What's ridiculous about that?

 

But before you go and make false assumptions,

You're a little on the touchy side, aren't you?

 

I didn't make any false assumptions. I asked you a question based on a statement you made. I'm glad you own lots of different music. But you're the one who made the false assumption, assuming that for some reason people who don't like cookie monster vocals are not open minded. For the record, over the past 39 years I've played in working rock bands, country bands, disco bands, a 24 piece stage band, a southern rock band, several blues bands, lounge bands, a disco/ funk band, and also do an acoustic folk/alt country solo and duo. I've done one vinyl album, 4 CDs, done studio work on numerous other people's records, toured extensively and played music for a living for several years.

 

Just how 'open minded' do I have to be to suit you?

[X2Nforever]

If one is immersed in the metal scene and they know their way around metal witht hose type of vocals, it is very easy to discern the different lows/highs/inhales/exhales that a screamer is capable of. I find it easy because I was raised on some harder music, i.e. Pantera and Metallica, and I went into even heavier stuff, like Death, In Flames, and Dark Tranquility. I then went even further into more extreme stuff, just to push the limits. I eventually learned how to discern the correct way to scream, and how it actually sounds, blah blah blah. All that good stuff.

A lot of "older" people don't care to even listen to it, and when they do it's just a passive sort of listening, because they are too ignorant to actually sit down and listen to it. (Not ignorant in an offense sense, but a literal sense, like Socrates admitting to the court how he was "wise" as others weren't, follow?) It hasn't really hurt the market so I don't see a problem, but only when they start to talk down to it, thinking real music takes singing compared to screaming or growling, and anything other than that is "crap".

Nothing pisses me off more than when I get off stage and am told, "Wow, that was pretty good except for that damn yellin'!" by a 45 year old Metallica fan.

Screams are fairly easily discernable if you listen to just a few bands, you can tell that they are different. Take these two bands for instance: The Crimson Armada and At The Throne Of Judgment. The Highs are similar, albeit ATTOJ are tighter, but TCA has a slight more "screech" on the highs. The Lows are pretty diffferent. You can tell in ATTOJ that they comes from pretty far from the diaphragm, and in TCA it's based more in the throat for the projection. Just little things like that become easy to pick up on once you dedicate yourself to a few songs.

My two cents

[BlueStrat]

Well, we could settle this discussion right away. I'll post any 3 singers, and see if most of the guys here can tell the difference. You post any 3 'growlers' and we'll see if the same is true. :wave:The only qualifier is they have to be the same sex and the same general genre. In other words, you put up 3 growlers and I'll put up 3 female pop singers or 3 male country singers. And we'll see which are easier to tell apart one from another.

 

Remember, the point is not whether they're legit or not, whether their bands are any good or not, or whether or not the genre itself is good or bad. The point is, I said they all sound mind-numbingly similar. Many of you have chosen to insult me personally because I hold that opinion with words like 'old', 'clueless', 'ridiculous', 'closed-minded', etc. (and please note, I never insulted anyone here personally: I merely said I think that technique of singing sounds like {censored}. I have not made a single comment about anyone who defends it, or even plays it, for that matter).

 

If they're as different as you say they are, it should be easy for anyone to tell them apart with a 10 second clip of each one.

[kurfu]

+1, "I don't get it, so it must not be good."

-1

"Old guy makes valid point about a certain type of younger music being absolute crap, so just accuse him of 'not getting it' because he is an old, dried up fvcker... even though the music is in fact, {censored}."

:cop:

[TrickyBoy]

Nothing pisses me off more than when I get off stage and am told, "Wow, that was pretty good except for that damn yellin'!" by a 45 year old Metallica fan.

 

 

Interesting comment to me. In college I played in a very "performance art" driven band where we took a lot of influence from bands like The Jesus Lizard and Fields of the Nephilim. Really noisy gothic stuff. It was a lot of fun, and comments like the one above we looked at as compliments. My favorite was "you guys are great musicians, but you're just too weird".

 

I mean, in your case, you are purposely manipulating you voice to sound unpleasing to most people. You have to know going in that if you play to 100 metalheads, 80 are going to not be able to get past the vocals, another 15 will not like the vocals but will be into the rest of the music and 5 will really get it.

 

So be it. That's the result of playing fringe-type music. Most people aren't going to take the time to appreciate the intricacies of the scream. They'd rather hear a melody.

[Zeromus-X]

Many of you have chosen to insult me personally because I hold that opinion with words like 'old', 'clueless', 'ridiculous', 'closed-minded', etc.

 

 

"Old" is a personal insult?

[BlueStrat]

"Old" is a personal insult?

 

When it's used in the condescending manner it was used here, as in "you don't get it just because you're old", yes, it is. Context is everything.

 

How would you like it if I said something like "well, I wouldn't expect you to get it, because you're young?" Would not 'young' then be a condescending insult?

So be it. That's the result of playing fringe-type music. Most people aren't going to take the time to appreciate the intricacies of the scream. They'd rather hear a melody.

Right. But apparently, according to some here, that just makes most people clueless, old, and closed minded.

[Zeromus-X]

Actually, since I assume you're referring to me, it was "Maybe you're getting old." Which, indeed, maybe it is.

 

And no, I don't see that as a condescending insult. Maybe I really just don't get it because I'm young. If I said "You're old and you suck dicks for money", then sure, I'd probably expect you to take offense to that. Even though, hey, for all I know, you really might. But I'm guessing it's more insulting, you know.

[BlueStrat]

Actually, I wasn't referring to you.

 

 

But as I said before, my kids are 20, 22, 25, and all hate cookie monster singing. I don't know any of their friends who like it.

Tricky Boy even pointed out that only 5% of any given metal audience will like it. So how does that equate to not liking it being a result of being old?

[Zeromus-X]

I didn't equate it to that. I threw it out as a possibility. Correlation does not imply causation, after all.

[BlueStrat]

I didn't equate it to that. I threw it out as a possibility. Correlation does not imply causation, after all.

 

True.

 

I sad in my other post on your banner thread that I'm kinda being a dick because I'm in a lot of pain today (some days are better than others, this ain't one of them). That's no excuse, and I'll apologize to you for it.