Members skydog6653 Posted January 23, 2010 Members Share Posted January 23, 2010 We're struggling with our guitarist/vocalist and primary songrwriter to accept the fact that some of our tunes are done and ready to record/release. However, he keeps vacillating and refuses to finalize anything. It's getting very frustrating. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tacdryver Posted January 23, 2010 Members Share Posted January 23, 2010 Does he just want to get it right..he's not 'feeling it', or is it something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeverTheMachine Posted January 23, 2010 Members Share Posted January 23, 2010 It's probably a personality issue, therefore not much you can do to change him. Try to have him write down exactly what he wants the songs to sound like and try to get it there, if possible, since he is the songwriter. I like to think of a healthy band as being a democracy, but the main songwriter is entitled to certain freedoms within reason (lyrics, tones, structure) in the song and how it's let out to the public. But preventing you guys from releasing something is a full band issue and can be unfair. What is the deal here? Does he have structural issues with the song, or how it's performed? Is it a vocals issue. Lead singers can be babies, maybe he just needs some more gratification from you guys that his voice and lyrics are good. Set a date to begin the recording process. Create an ultimatum. Do a band vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tacdryver Posted January 23, 2010 Members Share Posted January 23, 2010 He probably can't articulate what he wants ...reminds of guys that couldn't even tell me the key of the song, or the chords they were using... Maybe he's one of those self taught, memorize the chords guys, that know zip theory, and zip musical language...I know the type and it's frustrating...they want you to play the song like the CD, but it's a song that nobody knows and they are too uneducated musically, too inexperienced, to explain what they want... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members piersonm Posted January 23, 2010 Members Share Posted January 23, 2010 Have a talk, find where he stands. Maybe he/they (couldn't tell with your wording) just needs a boost in the confidence department that a fellow band memeber could give him. The glass half empty guys are needed just as much as the half full ones! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted January 24, 2010 Members Share Posted January 24, 2010 Time for a talk. I don't do the original thing so I can't speak to what constitutes a tune being finished. I suspect it's alot like the guys who seem in to the idea of playing out ... but stay in the basement because the band isn't ready. If that the case - it's time for a no nonsense conversation about the situation. If NOW isn't the right time - you need to identify exactly what he feels needs to happen before you take the next step. I've come to the realization that there are guys out there who like the basement - and truly don't feel any sense of urgency about getting out of it. There's nothing wrong with that if that's what floats their boat - however, it's important to me to find out early if that's the case - because hanging out in the basement is certainly NOT my objective. Sounds like you need to do the same thing with your guy and whatever next steps you're hoping to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted January 24, 2010 Members Share Posted January 24, 2010 Time for a talk. I don't do the original thing so I can't speak to what constitutes a tune being finished. I suspect it's alot like the guys who seem in to the idea of playing out ... but stay in the basement because the band isn't ready. If that the case - it's time for a no nonsense conversation about the situation. If NOW isn't the right time - you need to identify exactly what he feels needs to happen before you take the next step. I've come to the realization that there are guys out there who like the basement - and truly don't feel any sense of urgency about getting out of it. There's nothing wrong with that if that's what floats their boat - however, it's important to me to find out early if that's the case - because hanging out in the basement is certainly NOT my objective. Sounds like you need to do the same thing with your guy and whatever next steps you're hoping to take. It may also be a case of that the band isnt ready to come out of the basement. I have been that guy who wasnt happy a couple of times in recient past. One band is still in the basement ,, and the other one is out of garage even though they are not ready. This were all good guys in both bands. I just moved on in both cases. who knows. With this situation who knows. Its somthing only someone inside really knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brae0000 Posted January 24, 2010 Members Share Posted January 24, 2010 every time i review this forum i admire more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Toto99 Posted January 24, 2010 Members Share Posted January 24, 2010 I like to think of a healthy band as being a democracy Successful bands are very rarely a democracy. Normally there's one person in the band who knows the music or the business better than the rest. That's not to say the rest of the band can't come up with ideas, but there needs to be one guy who has the final say on important matters. The problem with democracy is you usually have to compromise or "meet halfway". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boxorox Posted January 24, 2010 Members Share Posted January 24, 2010 I know, at least in the studio, some things just never seem to be right until you leave them alone for a while. Maybe if he put them on the shelf for a couple of weeks and came back to them, he'd have a little perspective. I had a song, there was one line that just didn't work for me. It was a good song, so I used it anyway. It took several years, but finally the kink worked out, and I've been satisfied with it. Maybe get him to just accept the song as it is now. Nothing's carved in stone. Then there are songs that never gel for some reason. If you've given them an honest shot and they're going nowhere, dump 'em. They're a waste of band time and will cause frustration and hard feelings. It might motivate him if you all suggest those tunes be taken off the table, as the band wants to work on material that's more profitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TrickyBoy Posted January 24, 2010 Members Share Posted January 24, 2010 We're struggling with our guitarist/vocalist and primary songrwriter to accept the fact that some of our tunes are done and ready to record/release. However, he keeps vacillating and refuses to finalize anything. It's getting very frustrating. Any suggestions will be appreciated. It's hard to answer this question with any intelligence without hearing some of the tunes you are talking about. They could be great (or not). Who knows? I mean, I look back at some of the stuff I recorded that we all thought was "THE {censored}" at the time, and listening to it now, it's just {censored}. We still joke about some of those tunes. That being said, no damage comes from prematurely recording at least demos of your stuff. In reality, you really don't know what you have until you record it and can sit back with the headphones on and really listen to it. That's the way I'd approach him with it. More like: "Hey, let's put a couple of tracks down so that we can objectively listen to what we have." Don't approach it like you're cutting an album. Then you can get some objective opinions from outside folks and you'll really know what you have. I bet that if you do this and get some genuine and objective positive feedback, dude will come around. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeverTheMachine Posted January 24, 2010 Members Share Posted January 24, 2010 He probably can't articulate what he wants ...reminds of guys that couldn't even tell me the key of the song, or the chords they were using... Maybe he's one of those self taught, memorize the chords guys, that know zip theory, and zip musical language...I know the type and it's frustrating...they want you to play the song like the CD, but it's a song that nobody knows and they are too uneducated musically, too inexperienced, to explain what they want... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted January 24, 2010 Members Share Posted January 24, 2010 It may also be a case of that the band isnt ready to come out of the basement. I have been that guy who wasnt happy a couple of times in recient past. One band is still in the basement ,, and the other one is out of garage even though they are not ready. This were all good guys in both bands. I just moved on in both cases. who knows. With this situation who knows. Its somthing only someone inside really knows. Very true Rhat! In this case however, with the OP feeling pretty strongly that they're ready for the next step - he really needs to figure out exactly why his bandmate feels differently. Nothing's more frustrating that feeling you're ready for the next step - and having your wagon hitched to a project with somebody who doesn't feel the same way. Right, wrong or indifferent - it's something that a player really needs to know so that they can decide what is right for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mstreck Posted January 24, 2010 Members Share Posted January 24, 2010 I once dated a bandmate and she was never satisfied. Sometimes you need to take a break and let your fingers do the walking. But that probably doesn't help in your case. More on topic, what do third parties say about the songs? Objective feedback from someone NOT in the band can be worth a ton. If people already like the songs as they are, perhaps they're already fully cooked - whether you think so or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members b1ackie Posted January 24, 2010 Members Share Posted January 24, 2010 Original/reworked material from rehearsals always seems to come together on stage, with an audience and the old performance pressure. Songs definitely go up a notch with everyone in performance mode.[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tacdryver Posted January 24, 2010 Members Share Posted January 24, 2010 Some peeps are massively unmotivated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skydog6653 Posted January 25, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 25, 2010 I have MP3's of a lot of the stuff. How do I embed one here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sausagetime Posted January 25, 2010 Members Share Posted January 25, 2010 is he happy and really getting into it when you guys perform the tunes?if not, and cringing inside instead, he's probably agonizing cuz the rest of the band is not making it sound as he hears it. if he's kicking ass in the tunes then its probably another issue with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Krypter Posted January 25, 2010 Members Share Posted January 25, 2010 LOL. 9 times out of 10 I AM that guy. Being the main songwriter/composer promoter, artist, designer etc. We have had our album done for 3 months now (sans vocals, still looking for a singer) and i still am pretty caged about it. Here's the thing with me, (and take it as it may, or may not apply to your situation) i have seperation anxiety. This is the first thing i've created 100% on my own. I wrote the songs, came up with the concept, did the art, the band name, track list...everything. Even though i've been playing for years, this is the first thing I've done that is completely ME. So, yea, i was a bit scared that it would be totally rejected and everyone would think i suck. I liked it, but i had a constant fear of "what if no one gets it?" (its a concept metal album). So i kept going back and back and back and re-doing things and editing and fussing about every little detail. Until we all sat down, i attempted to remain objective, and realized i had fussed the ENERGY right out of the recordings. I had messed with it SO much that i took all the.......sponteneity out of it. Lucky for us we kept all takes and put the ones that maybe weren't the BEST played, but the ones with the most energy. With the most intensity. Turns out 80% of the takes we used were the first few we recorded. Anyway, after much fussing from the other guys, they convinced me to have a "listening party" comprised of all our friends. So we did (and i wasn't allowed to speak lol) and everyone by and large loved it. I breathed a sigh of relief, and now feel more confident about it. Like it or not, some people (like me!) are just nervous about how the world will receive something they've worked so hard to create. I'm glad the guys persuaded me to just take a leap and trust in the band. Turns out i just needed a little extra "OOMPH" from the guys, and a little faith in myself. Maybe that's what your guy needs. Just some friendly re-assurance that what you guys are doing is awesome, and if you believe, hopefully so will he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted January 25, 2010 Members Share Posted January 25, 2010 I have MP3's of a lot of the stuff. How do I embed one here? You have to host it on a fileshare service like yousendit, and then post the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members New Trail Posted January 25, 2010 Members Share Posted January 25, 2010 I have MP3's of a lot of the stuff. How do I embed one here? Do you guys listen to MP3's of your songs as a band? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members samtrips Posted January 25, 2010 Members Share Posted January 25, 2010 In one of my bands, I am the guy who's not always satisfied. We are patchy and not inclined to work hard enough for my liking. This is because it's a band of friends and we don't really play out that much. It's not a serious thing, not much money is involved. I don't want to have bust-ups with mates when to all intents and purposes it's their release valve from the grind of work and to be creative and free as we often are is what they want. But I have standards, and I get frustrated that people don't rehearse enough on their own, or work hard enough refining and trying alternate parts. For example this one song last week I finally got our lead guitarist to stop playing the wrong chord persistently in the chorus(!) of one of our originals. Almost a year after we wrote it. Because he hadn't realised it was wrong, and I didn't want to nag him. He's pretty sensitive sometimes and doesn't play well if you hit him with criticism. Some people don't. It took me five or more years of playing out in bands before I realised it was best to take constructive criticism in board from all quarters without taking it personally as a slight on my playing/contribution. I'm willing to put up with their idiosyncrasies because I love them and it's the only band where I get to write the lion's share of material. Also the improvisation is sublime 80% of the time - it's only when the nitty gritty of refining parts rears it's head that things get sensitive. I did used to try and implement all my ideas on the material and band, suggesting basslines etc. when other members were stuck, or writing the songs all on my own. Telling people off after poor performances. Imposing standards we couldnt meet. It was foolish. Now we tend to write together which is way more fun. That way there's not so much stress over parts, as people bring what they bring and we either keep the song if it's good or ditch the {censored}e. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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