Members fuel truck Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 I don't post all that often but after reading about all you folks out there struggling with {censored}ty bar owners,contracts,multiple bands on the same bill, no pay,ect,ect,ect. I feel very lucky to play where I do with the guys that I do. We play the same old cover tunes as you guys. 40 to 50 songs a night. 4 sets with 3 10 minute breaks. We have 5 to 6 bars we play that are all within an hour drive. Some are really classy some are blood and guts type places. We play 10 to 15 private party's and weddings a year on top of the bar work. Maybe 36 to 40 gigs a year. We Get a grand for the party's/weddings and $750.00 for the bar work. We are a five piece with our own lights and PA. Our soundman DJ's while were on break. We all are mid 30's in age and really put alot of effort into the SHOW side of things. We all are good players, nothing super just solid and TIGHT as we have been playing together for what seems like forever. We really have no local compition as far as other bands go, at least none that can draw the numbers we are getting. We average between 300 to 470 people at our shows. We are at a point now where we can play wherever we want and really, the only places we don't play are either too far away, or can't afford our price. I feel very lucky to have it as easy as we do. I'd like to offer a little advice to the younger guys here struggling to just keep playing. Try to work on the show side of things. I know it sucks to play the tired old cover tunes and feel legit about playing. What we have found is that people DO want to hear those songs they know all the words to. But what they also want, is to look up at the stage and see the band having fun and smiling while doing it. If you are having fun and playing like you really want to be playing , you will be also be ENTERTAINING the crowd. That, is what will get you a following faster than anything else. Don't worry so much about taking yourself so seriousley and just HAVE FUN! It really is supposed to be fun after all. The bar owners couldn't give two {censored}s what you look like or what you play for gear or really even what you sound like. The only thing a bar owner looks at is numbers. How many warm bodies can you bring to his or her club. As {censored}ty as that sounds, it's a cold fact. I've played clubs that couldn't be bothered to even speak to me as we are loading in for the first time, but after they cleared almost 5 grand at the door and sold out of every beer except coors and pbr think we are the greatest thing since sliced bread.Keep at it,learn to entertain not just play, and you'll see alot more faces at your shows. Which will lead to more shows for more money guarenteed P.S. Please forgive the terrible grammer and spelling. I aint got no Phd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badhabit Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 It's nice to hear a success story amidst all the doom and gloom. Where are you located? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 It's nice to hear a success story amidst all the doom and gloom. Where are you located? He better not say or he'll suddenly find himself knee deep in competition! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 It's nice to hear a success story amidst all the doom and gloom. Where are you located? I would figure that one of the reasons why they do well is they are doing all of the right things. They play music that belongs to the crowd not what the band would listen to on their ipod. They sound like they have a good band and have been at it for a while. they use their bar gigs to get pvt parties. While it is a tough marketplace ,, doing the best that you can do to entertain your people pays off. being consistant is also a must. drop the ball on any of these things and you wont do as well. if it takes playing mustang sally twice on a saturday night ,,, ride sally ride. I bet these guys would do it with a smile. They paid their dues and sound like they enjoy doing what they do. I doubt that a story like theirs isnt really that out of the norm for guys that take it to the market place like they do. Sounds like a great band ,, thanks for posting your story. Its good to hear from happy band guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 Maybe you should start charging what your worth. Five grand at the door and you get $750.00. If you are getting more than 300 people a show the bar should be making a bunch of money. $750.00 split between 5 musicians plus a soundman is only $125.00 a night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MartinC Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 Maybe you should start charging what your worth. Five grand at the door and you get $750.00. If you are getting more than 300 people a show the bar should be making a bunch of money. $750.00 split between 5 musicians plus a soundman is only $125.00 a night. I have to agree-300 people @even 5.00 is 1500. That's less than you should be getting. If you are really bringing that many, you should be getting three times what your getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 So whats a reasonable percentage off the gross to spend on entertainment? Now we havent even gone into the fact that some days in a bar lose money, even if you kick ass on fr and saturday night. chord girl knows alot about bars and how the numbers work ,, I hope she visits this thread and gives us some first hand perspective on this. One observation I can make is the OP seems pretty happy with what they have going on. that has to count for somthing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Austincowbell Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 Unless.... the bar takes in 5K at the door regardless of who is playing.... If the bar usually makes $4000 at the door with a $750 band but $5000 when you play you are probably worth $1250. One bar where we play pays like that... kinda: 10% of bar sales up to $250015% " $350020% " $4500 So... if the bar has a great night due to us, we get paid well. If they have a typical night, we don't. I'm ok with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 Unless.... the bar takes in 5K at the door regardless of who is playing....If the bar usually makes $4000 at the door with a $750 band but $5000 when you play you are probably worth $1250. One bar where we play pays like that... kinda:10% of bar sales up to $250015% " $350020% " $4500So... if the bar has a great night due to us, we get paid well. If they have a typical night, we don't. I'm ok with that. one down here that paid a percentage did 15 percent across the board. differnt owners took over ,, so think that deal is done. No idea what the deal is now. i have a friend that I dont play with, that took over 4 nights a week when the new owner came in. I will ask him next time I run into him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tele-vania65000 Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 Maybe you should start charging what your worth. Five grand at the door and you get $750.00. If you are getting more than 300 people a show the bar should be making a bunch of money. $750.00 split between 5 musicians plus a soundman is only $125.00 a night. Agreed. The dollars you guys are getting suck compared to the crowd...Assuming you weren't employing hyperbole in your crowd estimates. Thread fail. Sorry, mango. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members spruilldog Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 sold out of every beer except coors and pbr I would drink the pbr. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dancebass Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 Did anybody check to see if there's any money in his hat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 Agreed. The dollars you guys are getting suck compared to the crowd...Assuming you weren't employing hyperbole in your crowd estimates. Thread fail. Sorry, mango. What you ring at the door ,, has little to do with what you get to the bottom line. its all about overhead structure. If you ring 5 grand on saturday night and lose money on monday and tuesday ,it eats up that sat till,, have a big cooler go tits up ,, with a roof that needs replacment hanging over your head. who is the band to say what the guy can afford to pay. The OP seems like a happy guy that is cool with playing bar gigs for a buck and a quarter a man. Hell worrry about your own game ,,,, what he does dosent have {censored} to do with anyone but him and his band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuel truck Posted March 4, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 Well, the bar I'm talking about had a 480 head count at the door. They get 10 bucks a person to get in. I'm sure some hotties and good ol boys slip thru without paying, but for the most part everyone pays. A bottle of Bud is 6 bucks and a mixed drink... say captain & coke is 7.50. They do pretty well. Now it is in a Ski town in Vermont. Big time taxes and mortgage I'm sure. They provide the PA for this gig and have there own soundman. No big deal just one less guy for us to pay and less crap to lug. I'd love more money but to be honest I'm happy to play for 150 bucks. It's a 30 minute drive from my house. It's all good, I aint bitchin. The guy who runs the place is ok. Kind of treated us like a joke until we filled the place and rocked the house. Very cool to us now. I guess we had to just prove ourselves?I didn't mean to piss in anyone's cornflakes with this thread. As I said, I have been around here for along time. I just feel bad for all you guys who have to jump through so many hoops to do what you love and thought I might be able to give a little advice to speed up the success.Good luck out there guys! Keep on rockin' !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 So 480 drunks probably spend a minumum of $20.00 a piece = $9600.00 +$4800.00 in cover =$14,400.00. You get $750.00. Seriously you should be getting at least twice that a night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted March 5, 2010 Members Share Posted March 5, 2010 So 480 drunks probably spend a minumum of $20.00 a piece = $9600.00 +$4800.00 in cover =$14,400.00. You get $750.00. Seriously you should be getting at least twice that a night. You know anything about the nuts and bolts of a ski area. I know you play one and get paid well ,,,, The OP is a local. that aint bad money for a local living near a ski area. Life cold be worse ,, he could be loading chair lifts. The overhead is huge ,, and they dont make money in the summer. Ski areas take in the vast majority of money between christmas and new years.. It rains during that week and its a financial blood bath. They have to start early ,,, lose money due to season pass people and run late and lose money because of those same season pass people. the seaon pass money is the start up money that makes the snow.... the electric bill is astronomoical ,, you cant even imagine how huge it is. Its a tough racket. I worked right under the area manager for a ski area ,,,,while i was running a flight school. The weather sucked so bad by the great lakes ,, we pretty well shut the flight school down. I worked in the ski biz to get through the winters .. and even worked a there in the summer when I first started. Its easy to look at the resort and think the pockets are so deep that the money is never an issue. Our OP is a local ,,guy it seems ,, He knows he aint doing that bad,, when I bet he has buddies that are loading chairs out in the cold all day. He gets paid what he gets paid and I am sure he is glad that he is on stage ,, and not out in the parking lot at O dark 30 parking cars or turnin screwd in the rental dept. If he has a regular gig with his band at the area , thats gold , even if they only knock down a bone and a quarter a gig. The potential for pvt parties is good. sorry to unload on this subject so hard ,, but I have been around this business in one way or another for a good deal of my life. its the place I alway headed when I needed a job ,, the owner of the one one I worked for and I go back to when i was in high school. hell i could make one phone call and go on the payroll even today. Thank god i dont have too ,,, it was long hours , 7 days a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blackbird 13 Posted March 5, 2010 Members Share Posted March 5, 2010 The guy who runs the place is ok. Kind of treated us like a joke until we filled the place and rocked the house. Very cool to us now. I guess we had to just prove ourselves? As someone else mentioned, you may be able to get more money if you revisit this with the guy that books. He's obviously making enough to pay you more.. but then again, if you're happy with the price you're charging, no harm, no foul I suppose. Just know that you're being taken advantage of, at least a little bit. That said.. it's no wonder this guy likes you. He's gonna pay you the $750, kiss your ass all night, and hope that you guys continue giving him a license to print money. A cardinal rule for me in dealing with club owners, booking agents, and anyone else that books bands is to keep in mind the way they treated me before I made them a penny, because that speaks a lot more to the type of people they are. Just something to keep in mind! Glad there are a few of us that are able to do what we love and have some positive experiences to show from it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted March 5, 2010 Members Share Posted March 5, 2010 You know anything about the nuts and bolts of a ski area. I know you play one and get paid well ,,,, The OP is a local. that aint bad money for a local living near a ski area. Life cold be worse ,, he could be loading chair lifts. The overhead is huge ,, and they dont make money in the summer. Ski areas take in the vast majority of money between christmas and new years.. It rains during that week and its a financial blood bath. They have to start early ,,, lose money due to season pass people and run late and lose money because of those same season pass people. the seaon pass money is the start up money that makes the snow.... the electric bill is astronomoical ,, you cant even imagine how huge it is. Its a tough racket. I worked right under the area manager for a ski area ,,,,while i was running a flight school. The weather sucked so bad by the great lakes ,, we pretty well shut the flight school down. I worked in the ski biz to get through the winters .. and even worked a there in the summer when I first started. Its easy to look at the resort and think the pockets are so deep that the money is never an issue. Our OP is a local ,,guy it seems ,, He knows he aint doing that bad,, when I bet he has buddies that are loading chairs out in the cold all day. He gets paid what he gets paid and I am sure he is glad that he is on stage ,, and not out in the parking lot at O dark 30 parking cars or turnin screwd in the rental dept. If he has a regular gig with his band at the area , thats gold , even if they only knock down a bone and a quarter a gig. The potential for pvt parties is good. sorry to unload on this subject so hard ,, but I have been around this business in one way or another for a good deal of my life. its the place I alway headed when I needed a job ,, the owner of the one one I worked for and I go back to when i was in high school. hell i could make one phone call and go on the payroll even today. Thank god i dont have too ,,, it was long hours , 7 days a week. So how is any of that the bands problem? If my band has a lot of overhead issues it is not the bars problem. I am glad you had ski hill and aviation experience maybe you should go find some forums to post on. Seriously Rhat you have almost no experience being in a working band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted March 5, 2010 Members Share Posted March 5, 2010 So how is any of that the bands problem? If my band has a lot of overhead issues it is not the bars problem. I am glad you had ski hill and aviation experience maybe you should go find some forums to post on. Seriously Rhat you have almost no experience being in a working band. How is pulling rank on me doing you any good? You have a ton of experience and it doesnt seem to be working out for you. maybe you need happy pills....Whining is not very productive in any career. In fact when things get tight ,, the whiner is the first guy to get cut back. In hard times its the happy guy that gets the work, not the one thats all pissed off. Even in contracting ,,, and I did that too. The last guy you want to be around when times are tough is the guy that bitches about anything and everything. blunt yes , food for thought , you betcha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeff42 Posted March 5, 2010 Members Share Posted March 5, 2010 The guy who runs the place is ok. Kind of treated us like a joke until we filled the place and rocked the house. Very cool to us now. I guess we had to just prove ourselves? this is usually how it goes... at least for us, even after they see our press kit/dvd I do agree though... Raise your rate even if it's a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted March 5, 2010 Members Share Posted March 5, 2010 How is pulling rank on me doing you any good? You have a ton of experience and it doesnt seem to be working out for you. maybe you need happy pills....Whining is not very productive in any career. In fact when things get tight ,, the whiner is the first guy to get cut back. In hard times its the happy guy that gets the work, not the one thats all pissed off. Even in contracting ,,, and I did that too. The last guy you want to be around when times are tough is the guy that bitches about anything and everything. blunt yes , food for thought , you betcha Whatever, when the day comes that the only way I can get stage time is by playing for free at jam night I will hang it up. You can think I am dick all you want but the band I am in now i've been in for 14 years the one I started before that lasted seven. I must not be that big of asshole in real life. You manage to have almost 20,000 posts, many on this forum and you havn't been in a real band in 40 years. Just noticed that we joined HC about the same time yet you have over 10 times as many posts as I do. I guess while I was out playing music in bands you were here telling everyone how it is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted March 5, 2010 Members Share Posted March 5, 2010 Whatever, when the day comes that the only way I can get stage time is by playing for free at jam night I will hang it up. You can think I am dick all you want but the band I am in now i've been in for 14 years the one I started before that lasted seven. I must not be that big of asshole in real life. You manage to have almost 20,000 posts, many on this forum and you havn't been in a real band in 40 years. Just noticed that we joined HC about the same time yet you have over 10 times as many posts as I do. I guess while I was out playing music in bands you were here telling everyone how it is done. You were prolly doing trim in houses.. I got lots of time on my hands,i am retired ,,,,,I would guess I type 10 times as fast as you do too.... i play keyboard lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChordGirl Posted March 5, 2010 Members Share Posted March 5, 2010 So whats a reasonable percentage off the gross to spend on entertainment? Now we havent even gone into the fact that some days in a bar lose money, even if you kick ass on fr and saturday night. chord girl knows alot about bars and how the numbers work ,, I hope she visits this thread and gives us some first hand perspective on this. One observation I can make is the OP seems pretty happy with what they have going on. that has to count for somthing. I've seen bars pay 10-20% of sales depending on their own costs, assuming there is no cover. If the band is not getting at the very least, half the door, no matter where the real estate is, when they're ringing $5 over the cost of a single Bud Light per beer, and they're drying up the kegs in a 480 capacity bar, they are seriously getting hosed. That's a serious ring. If the bar owner has big loans, he's certainly chunking them away with that extra (up to)4k he's pulling off of the band at the door. I could see that kind of split on a "penny pitcher night", but not when they're slammin' at regular prices just because of the band's draw. Even looking at the rest of the year with the ski business, I believe they're probably worth more than they're getting. If no one else is packing the place like them, and the owner is making his best profits by far with them, it would still behoove him to hire them, even if his take was $750 less on that night. What are his other options, if none of his other bands even come close to bringing that much money in at both the register and door? The op has already talked about all the extra time and effort they put into it to develop a show that the crowd loves. They deserve at least half their own door, IMO, and the owner either agrees to it or loses even more profit by replacing them with a band of average draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted March 5, 2010 Members Share Posted March 5, 2010 I've seen bars pay 10-20% of sales depending on their own costs, assuming there is no cover. If the band is not getting at the very least, half the door, no matter where the real estate is, when they're ringing $5 over the cost of a single Bud Light per beer, and they're drying up the kegs in a 480 capacity bar, they are seriously getting hosed. That's a serious ring. If the bar owner has big loans, he's certainly chunking them away with that extra (up to)4k he's pulling off of the band at the door. I could see that kind of split on a "penny pitcher night", but not when they're slammin' at regular prices just because of the band's draw. Even looking at the rest of the year with the ski business, I believe they're probably worth more than they're getting. If no one else is packing the place like them, and the owner is making his best profits by far with them, it would still behoove him to hire them, even if his take was $750 less on that night. What are his other options, if none of his other bands even come close to bringing that much money in at both the register and door? The op has already talked about all the extra time and effort they put into it to develop a show that the crowd loves. They deserve at least half their own door, IMO, and the owner either agrees to it or loses even more profit by replacing them with a band of average draw. One thing about a ski crowd is that ,, these people dump serious money to ski. Its an expensive sport. They dont drink like the typical bar customer. how many 6 dollar beers do you think a guy who got up early drinks after the lifts stop turning..., spend the day on the slopes doing a physically intensive sport that they really dont do that much? Most of these people pretty well are physicall whopped by the end of the day. They either have a big drive home because they are a day tripper or they hang out , listen to the band a little ,, have a beer or two ,, go back to their room flopout on the bed , watch some tube and take a shower ,, then get some food ,, retire pretty early to get up and go ski again the next day. Yes money does flow through a ski area like {censored} through a tin horn.. but they can get their livin ass kicked almost to the point of no recovery by three days of rain between christmans and new years. Its not the normal bar crowd,, could they get more,, yea ,, but they dont. if you live up in the boonies where these areas exist ,,,,you will find that the locals work seasonal jobs , and the ski bum types work for peanuts. I could make more money in michigan working at an area that caters to locals from south bend ,michawaka and elkhart ,, than I can in colorado or up in northern michigan . They had to pay a premium for guys like me there ,, because every one of us could have gone to the the mountains and had better skiing ,, but lower wages. The way they got us to work their little pimple of a ski area was to let us make pretty good money. we did it by working long hours ,, and being a person that would come back year after year that they didnt have to train and could train others. A house gig a at a good mountain ski area ,,,is worth playing for less. ski all day ,, play at night. lay a seaon pass on me... hook me up with a place to stay that wont break the bank,, and I was good to go. the real heavy party people are the locals and employees.. we either got our beer for free from our bar tender buddies ,, or bought it at the store. the biz has two types ,, insiders and outsiders. I was pretty well always an insider... free skis , free tickets free food , free booze I skied every day of the season for at least a couple hours ,, on the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted March 5, 2010 Members Share Posted March 5, 2010 I joined a band within days of entering college as a freshman and immediately found out that they were all serious skiers. We drove to Stowe, VT on winter break, skied all day, played four sets every night, and somehow found a few hours to sleep. Our pay at "Good Time Charlie's" was pretty good, as I recall, but then winter break was probably prime time for them . . . always a packed house. A local band approached me, looking for a keyboard player. Turns out I was making more doing two nights a week back on campus than they were as a nightly house band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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