Members sickman Posted March 10, 2010 Members Share Posted March 10, 2010 If the places our bandleader calls for gigs reply with a "lowball" figure he says he can't get the full band, but he can get his duo (him and the bassist). He's stated he would rather play with the full band, but the full band will not play for x amount and you the duo can. Is he competing against himself for gigs? I guess the problem arises when the duo is getting more gigs than the band. EDIT: He also ask me to come sit in with the duo. I figure if they won't play for x amount, why should I play a few sets for free? At the same time, I like to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigjd Posted March 10, 2010 Members Share Posted March 10, 2010 Put your own duo together. Compete for the same gig if you wanna play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sickman Posted March 10, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 10, 2010 Put your own duo together. Compete for the same gig if you wanna play. What about a one man thing? Then I can charge even less than the duo, but still make more per man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ckcondon Posted March 10, 2010 Members Share Posted March 10, 2010 Sounds pretty cheesy to me. He's just looking out for himself. He'll get paid either way.Acoustic stuff shouldn't compete with full band gigs, especially if it's on a weekend. Weeknights = acoustic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chicken Monkey Posted March 10, 2010 Members Share Posted March 10, 2010 That's shady. But the guy who books, makes the call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TotalPoser Posted March 10, 2010 Members Share Posted March 10, 2010 EDIT: He also ask me to come sit in with the duo. I figure if they won't play for x amount, why should I play a few sets for free? At the same time, I like to play. I'd definitely say no to that. Don't give him more ammo to quit booking the full band gigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigjd Posted March 10, 2010 Members Share Posted March 10, 2010 What about a one man thing? Then I can charge even less than the duo, but still make more per man. See there ya go:thu::thu: I'm not sayin its the right thing to do,I'm just sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sickman Posted March 11, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 That's shady. But the guy who books, makes the call. That's sort of how I feel. The only thing I have an issue is the fact that the band wants x amount to play. If the place won't pay x amount he offers the duo for a lower amount and he still gets paid the amount he wants. He is perfectly open about it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeff42 Posted March 11, 2010 Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 maybe the band needs to start playing a little cheaper... for now. I feel that Sometimes you have to take the lower paying gigs. not all gigs are equal in pay, ease of load in or crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 11, 2010 Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 It's business, and I know several bands who do this. I had a 7 piece horn band. Not everyone wanted to pay me 800/night for a bar gig. So I'd offer them a 5 piece for 600, a 4 piece for 500, trio for 400. My guys were fine with it, since none of them wanted to leave the house for under a hundred a guy. You aren't competing with yourself if you wouldn't do the gig as a full band for the price they're offering. Now, if the band is willing to play for 40 or 50 bucks a guy a night, and the band leader is turning it down to book his duo, that's something else altogether. But I know if I told my guys that a venue wanted to pay $400, and I thought I'd just take the trio, the other guys would be fine with it. All of them would rather go do something else than do a 4 hour gig for 40 or 50 bucks. I also do a duo and a solo, but I don't do them in the same venues the band plays in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sickman Posted March 11, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 It's business, and I know several bands who do this. I had a 7 piece horn band. Not everyone wanted to pay me 800/night for a bar gig. So I'd offer them a 5 piece for 600, a 4 piece for 500, trio for 400. My guys were fine with it, since none of them wanted to leave the house for under a hundred a guy. You aren't competing with yourself if you wouldn't do the gig as a full band for the price they're offering. Now, if the band is willing to play for 40 or 50 bucks a guy a night, and the band leader is turning it down to book his duo, that's something else altogether. But I know if I told my guys that a venue wanted to pay $400, and I thought I'd just take the trio, the other guys would be fine with it. All of them would rather go do something else than do a 4 hour gig for 40 or 50 bucks. I also do a duo and a solo, but I don't do them in the same venues the band plays in. I think I just need to compromise or whatever. I would play for $50-65, but the rest of the band would not. I am also at least 20 years younger than the next youngest guy, so I understand they have been through this and it's not worth it to them. I figure it is better than practicing for free. You guys always do a good job of seeing the middle road... which is why I post non-sense here. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members toneforhire Posted March 11, 2010 Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 Oh I am sure his first priority is getting the full band a gig BULL{censored}...this {censored}nut is looking for places that will do the duo thing...THAT I am willing to bet is his #1 choice...if not then the rest of you get thrown a bone...god damn some times I hate musicians... I played in a band briefly where this bassist/leader {censored} would constantly turn down offers, not enough money, were better than that...I found out where a couple of these gigs he turned down were, and sure enough this {censored} was in there with another band...so I got the rest of the band to come hang out, not knowing what I knew...and the whole band was there to see him with this band... His entire band walked up and quit on him at a break, and we told the other band what he was doing...turns out he was also lying to them about what they were getting and he was skimming off the top, so they fired him at break...hahaha...the other guitarist for his first band filled in on bass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 11, 2010 Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 Why would any band want to play in a place that hired duos? Aim low and you'll get there, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeff42 Posted March 11, 2010 Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 Why would any band want to play in a place that hired duos? I am sure this is more like the exception but I am playing at very popular place near my hometown on Saturday. They have duos every other Friday night (earlier like 7-10 or something) and every other Saturday they have full bands (the usual 10-2 deal) Why the owner does this... no idea but he does and the place always has a nice crowd. When we come in (every few months) we do VERY well because on top of their crowd is our crowd. Oh and about you guys playing for less money, I was thinking around $80-$100 a man. I wouldn't take a gig below that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted March 11, 2010 Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 If the places our bandleader calls for gigs reply with a "lowball" figure he says he can't get the full band, but he can get his duo (him and the bassist). He's stated he would rather play with the full band, but the full band will not play for x amount and you the duo can. Is he competing against himself for gigs? I guess the problem arises when the duo is getting more gigs than the band. EDIT: He also ask me to come sit in with the duo. I figure if they won't play for x amount, why should I play a few sets for free? At the same time, I like to play. the reality of todays music scene is that bars like the small groups because its live entertainment and it keeps the budget low. One way to make it work is find some guys who love to play but dont want the total commitment that a full band takes. Now you do have to be willing to have guys MIA and enough sit in guys to field a good band. Like pat said ,,, alot of good players dont want to be obligated to play a gig for 50 bucks. They are more apt to just go play for the hell of it , if they know they dont have to be there if they dont want to and can drift off for three weeks to go do whatever... You have a ton of pretty damb good musicans that have been in bands ,, know that a good band takes alot of time and they just dont want the ties that a real band takes. I do a deal like this.... I just look at it like a live band practice. After the group plays together long enough , you end up with a pretty tight act. then you can slip into the model pat talked about. You want a solo, duo, trio, full band ,, no problem. build the band,, then worry about the money later. its a good situation for the full time guy who has to make a living that doesnt have the time to spend in the woodshed with a band. Its works for the guy that wants to take off for three weeks ,, and doesnt have a real band to worry about letting down. The re entry of all those guys who played when they were young that now have time for music has kinda changed things. Right or wrong , those guys are out there. As the thing develops ,,, they can and do turn into a flexable line up that can offer a venue alot of options. That keeps the full time guys working and it can and does turn into a flexable situation for the guys who can jump in and be the backing band where they can after the act gets tight can get paid well for turning the trio or a full band gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mstreck Posted March 11, 2010 Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 Maybe I'm missing something... Does the venue want a band or do they want an acoustic act? They are totally different in my mind, and shouldn't even be able to compete with one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted March 11, 2010 Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 Maybe I'm missing something...Does the venue want a band or do they want an acoustic act? They are totally different in my mind, and shouldn't even be able to compete with one another. the act that can expand and contract , can compete with everyone.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted March 11, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 11, 2010 You now know the ground rules. This means that you can be in other bands as well. And when you have a conflict you take the higher paying gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mstreck Posted March 11, 2010 Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 the act that can expand and contract , can compete with everyone.. I guess I'm trying to think like a venue owner... If I hire bands on the weekends, and my clientele expects bands, then they're going to be a little disappointed if I hire an acoustic duo. It just won't have the same impact and they will go find a band elsewhere else. On the other hand, if I hire acoustic acts, and my clientele is used to a more laid-back atmosphere, then a full band is going to chase away my expecting-to-relax clientele. Of course, I'm sure there are things that I'm not considering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted March 11, 2010 Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 I guess I'm trying to think like a venue owner... If I hire bands on the weekends, and my clientele expects bands, then they're going to be a little disappointed if I hire an acoustic duo. It just won't have the same impact and they will go find a band elsewhere else.On the other hand, if I hire acoustic acts, and my clientele is used to a more laid-back atmosphere, then a full band is going to chase away my expecting-to-relax clientele.Of course, I'm sure there are things that I'm not considering. Alot hire both ,,, small act during the week,, full band on the weekend. i am in a place where some of places have live music 7 days a week, they have to be flexable. those boomers who come down here to retire , grew up on live music. a guy will play a place as a solo on thursday,, a trio on fri ,, and run in the full band on sunday. it prolly isnt the norm for most places but you see that alot here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mstreck Posted March 11, 2010 Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 Alot hire both ,,, small act during the week,, full band on the weekend. In that situation, an acoustic act wouldn't be competing with a band. Neither would be taking the other's slot. In the OP, it sounds like they are. I can see a blues trio competing with a larger blues band, but acoustic acts and full bands don't seem interchangable. The venue in question sounds like they are having an identity crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members klrbee03 Posted March 11, 2010 Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 Dude...sickman...you need to find a group of musicians that are your own age, play music you like, and are up front with you. Every time I see that picture of Screech I know its about fat old jerks that don't have a clue how to run a band, or pick good songs, and that they're not always honest about stuff. I know you want to play and all, and I've put up with my share of {censored} in the past just for the fun of playing, but you gotta draw the line somewhere. There's a point at which aggravation outweighs fun, ya know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rorylawford Posted March 11, 2010 Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 I have to agree with the "Bee". From so many of your posts, it really looks like you are not treated with respect - and you know that you aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 11, 2010 Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 fat old jerks that don't have a clue how to run a band, Please. Age and size have nothing to do with it. I've seen my share of clueless hip looking 20 something assclowns in bands who hadn't the slightest idea of what they were doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted March 12, 2010 Members Share Posted March 12, 2010 Please. Age and size have nothing to do with it. I've seen my share of clueless hip looking 20 something assclowns in bands who hadn't the slightest idea of what they were doing. It's the skinny old jerks I worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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