A generational shift?

[Vito Corleone]

I think I've posted here before that I've noticed at least the beginning of a need to "youth up" our material. The 60s and 70s classic rock stuff just isn't getting the same response it did even a year or two ago, so I think it's time to replace that with more 90s and 00s stuff.

 

As a result of this (and the fact we added a female vocalist--largely because I want to do more current stuff) I've been spending more time listening to the radio in search of songs. And I've noticed that some of these stations have done the same thing.

 

Most of these radio stations are programmed nationally, so you've probably noticed the same thing in your areas? We have a station here called "Magic" which is primarily music-for-ladies-who-work-in-the-office. Everytime I've turned on this station in the past I've been bombarded with Michael Bolton and REO Speedwagon and Beatles and Lovin' Spoonful. Now they've completely gotten rid of the 60s and 70s stuff and are playing all 80s and 90s and edgier stuff. Some hip-hop sounding material and I heard "Poker Face" the other day.

 

Another one is the format called "Alice" which is primarily what I would call "soft alternative". Nothing harder than maybe Alanis Morissette. Again, I think their demographic is primarily female. They too have added a lot of more recent dance-y hip-hop sounding material.

 

So it seems this shift away from 60s and 70s isn't just something I've noticed (or imagined) or something that is local or regional, but is actually taking place.

 

Makes sense. The average age of your typical office-worker stays the same. But the year they graduated high school gets more recent every year.

[twostone]

Jeez are you a cave man or what? 60's and 70's rock it's 2010 bro. You sure you didn't do some bad acid back then. I know some burn out musician still in the basement doing Doors and Beatles tunes but I think they took some bad acid back in the era their still stuck on.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Jeez are you a cave man or what? 60's and 70's rock it's 2010 bro.

 

 

No {censored}?

 

But seriously. Bands focused on turning on head-banging teenage boys aside, 70's classic rock has been the bread and butter for a lot of cover bands for years. The young ladies still pack the floor for "Walk This Way" or "Long Train Runnin'" or even "Roadhouse Blues". But I've noticed that even a lot of the sure-fire 80s stuff has been getting a bit long in the tooth lately.

 

Just sayin' to some of the bands out there that are completely committed to the 'classic rock' format: both the definitions of "classic" and "rock" are broadening quite a bit.

[jeff42]

we started as a classic rock band back in 2002. We still do a few classic rock tunes but we added more and more 70s disco and 80s dance tunes when we saw the response to the 1st few we tried out. We lost a few members because of the shift and a few fans as well... but we gained many many more fans since our switch. (also explains why the name of the band doesn't really fit)

 

as far as 90s stuff. we added some and they fell out of rotation pretty quickly because they just don't have the crowd reaction we are looking for. We do keep a few in the show but not many.

[TrickyBoy]

Right now here's what I'm seeing:

 

60's and 70's - A couple of staples - Sweet Caroline, Magic Carpet Rice (occasionally), Sympathy for the Devil (occassionally), YMCA (a punked out goof that's fun) but for the most part, we had a lot from this era when we were a trio, but when Meagan joined, we trashed almost all of it

 

80's is gold - probably 40-50% of our set is here - all great reactions. From rap - Wild thing, It Takes Two, etc. to Jesse's Girl, GnR, Poison, Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, REM, Violent Femmes, etc. etc. Everyone from ages 18-50 goes crazy for this stuff.

 

90's is hit or miss - right now in our set we have Smells Like Teen Spirit (huge), My Own Worst Enemy (Still kills), Semi Charmed Life (great first set get people dancing song), Creep (always kills) Better Than Ezra (they're from Baton Rouge, so it's a layup) also some 90's rap Jump Around, Baby's Got Back. BTW - if your chick can pull it off - What's Up by 4 Non Blondes KILLS EVERY TIME! We closed with it Friday night and it was an awesome drunk sing along.

 

Newer stuff - Here I've noticed a weird phenomenon. Brand new generally doesn't work - for example - hey soul sister - kills, Trains new tune... crickets. I almost think you need the song to get worn out on radio a little before you try it.

 

I've realized we're different than DJ's For us, it's almost better to be a year behind - Kings of Leon still gets a great reaction live, but on the radio, lots of people change the station any more. Play Poker Face, it'd prolly still do better than her newer stuff. We opened the third set Friday night with So What by Pink and the dance floor exploded.

 

We also get real good reactions from stuff like Swing Swing by All American Rejects. Are You Gonna Be My Girl does well also. And I think I Gotta Feeling is one of those songs we can play every night for the next 5 years and the crowd will still dig it. It just has that get drunk and party vibe about it.

[GuitarPlayerFL]

Most of our play list concentrates on 70s Disco and it always goes over well.

The college crowd (younger than 22) REALLY likes it. Anything Lady Gaga does goes over well. Pocketful of Sunshine doesn't do much. We blew off All American Rejects (Gives You Hell) because of no response after a couple of plays.

 

I saw a friend's band play a couple of months ago. Their play list is about 95% current Alt-Rock. There were ignored by the crowd.

 

The classics and Motown still rule in these parts as bars are usually frequented by 30-50 year olds. Most of the bars in this town that have bands are not upscale...kids out of college want to go to "hip" and new places.

 

Most 21-30 somethings in this town would rather go where a DJ is.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Brand new generally doesn't work - for example - hey soul sister - kills, Trains new tune... crickets. I almost think you need the song to get worn out on radio a little before you try it.

 

 

Still depends on the tune, I think. "Hey Soul Sister" is one of those songs that, ukelele part aside, is going to be around for a long time. Melodies that great don't come around that often.

[wheresgrant3]

Tricky largely nailed it... although I'd say as always... material is largely dependent on your geographic region and how you present the material. And of course some song stick and others don't. We added "Sex On Fire" by Kings of Leon a year ago and we pulled it after 4 shows. We added "Use Somebody" last fall, expecting to do the same and it's become a setlist staple... in fact such a big part of our setlist we position it as a sing along. Same with Soul Sister.

 

It's funny how some songs 'stick' and others don't.

 

For us it's a careful balance between what's current on the radio now and still playing memorable songs from the past. We play a little something for every age group we play to. This last year we've been adding alot more modern dance. Some songs pop and others are OK. We've taken chances with really 'out there' alternative bands (Phoenix) and they fall on the floor like mudbricks. Even material from bands like Weezer, We've been playing 'Sexy Back' from Justin Timberlake for more years than I'd care to admit. I mean it has to be four freakin years now. The song won't die. I can't stand it, but audiences still love it. I guess it's just familar. Last spring we added "You've Lost That Lovin Feeling' but the Rightous Bros. We learned it for a wedding and brought it out as an end of night encore for a college bar. Let me tell you... I've never seen so many under 25 sing louder. Like a big drunk chorus.

 

With a female singer there is some great dancable material that's current.

[cooterbrown]

 

No {censored}? But seriously. Bands focused on turning on head-banging teenage boys aside, 70's classic rock has been the bread and butter for a lot of cover bands for years. The young ladies still pack the floor for "Walk This Way" or "Long Train Runnin'" or even "Roadhouse Blues". But I've noticed that even a lot of the sure-fire 80s stuff has been getting a bit long in the tooth lately. Just sayin' to some of the bands out there that are completely committed to the 'classic rock' format: both the definitions of "classic" and "rock" are broadening quite a bit.

 

 

When "classic rock" adopted the grunge era, early 80s NWOBHM, along with the beginnings of hair metal, about ten years ago... that shoulda been your first clue to jettison your Doors, Beatles, and Stones. :poke:

 

For me, the key is to fill a niche, while still playing familiar songs.

 

Most of the local rock bands have all fallen into the "Crazy Bitch"/"Paralyzer"/"Rockstar" mind-numbing sameness.

 

All of these bands have their own two or three clever covers, or may touch on older alt-rock, but for the most part they are all different versions of the same band.

 

My main band fills a niche, in that we're really the only band around here that can play funk, R&B and disco exclusively. My newly-formed side band is mining early punk, new wave, and classic alternative, exclusively.

[Blackbird 13]

We started Broke By Sunday in January, and the response I've gotten from nearly every agent, club owner, or entertainment promoter that has booked us has been something along the lines of "It's so cool that you guys play a little bit of everything". Between the acoustic shows and band shows, we've got four to five nights a week booked in June and July, and all our weekend dates till I think November... and again, we played our first show on Jan. 1, 2010.

 

On the same side of that, I've had two agents tell me they liked the overall "package" of the band, but that my setlist was too varied, whereas they like to have bands they can label as "80's bands", "modern rock bands", "country bands", or whatever else. While we're doing fine, I kinda wonder if the agents that think that way might be better served to look around at what's working.

 

In a given night, chances are good that our 10-2 set will include "Rebel Yell", "She's Country", "Pony", "Poker Face", "Cupid Shuffle", "All the Small Things", "Sweet Home Alabama", "Crazy Bitch", "What I Got", "Brown Eyed Girl", "Gangsta's Paradise", "Free Fallin", "Play That Funky Music", "Sex On Fire", "Save A Horse, Ride A Cowboy", "Maneater", "Holiday", and any number of other songs, with a good 75-80 percent of the 21 to 60 year old crowd knowing not just one or two, but ALL of those songs.

 

The one constant in those songs is that even if you don't listen to that particular genre, you've probably heard the song, and it's all party music, or at the very least "good time" music. They are the kind of songs people can either move to, sing along to, or both. Those are the songs that get stuck in your head, whether you want them too or not, and as a result, they are the songs that people associate with fun times in their lives.

 

I'm 27.. and I've been telling anyone who would listen since I was about 20 that the music business is moving further and further away from clearly defined genre lines, and more towards about what's got the broadest appeal.

 

It's a shame that here we are with that happening and some really GREAT musicians can't accept it. That's why you've got phenomenal musicians who will continue to play low rate, mediocre gigs where they're vastly unappreciated, all because they refuse to play things that some of the more successful bands do. I guess it's all about your priorities, and mine fall with entertaining a crowd coming in way above "maintaining my artistic integrity". I mean really.. my artistic integrity would be compromised if I was purposely NOT doing things I knew would further my career in music, wouldn't it? Anyways....

[TrickyBoy]

 

Still depends on the tune, I think. "Hey Soul Sister" is one of those songs that, ukelele part aside, is going to be around for a long time. Melodies that great don't come around that often.

 

 

Agreed. Maybe a bad example. My point was I think it's to a bands advantage to let the radio "wear a song out" a little so that everyone knows the lyrics, etc.

 

We added two very current songs recently - Animals by Neon Trees and Breakeven by The Script. Both get lots of radio play, but we've played both a few times and by and large, they got a meh response. Last show neither made the cut.

 

Maybe in a couple of months we'll dust them of and see if they've had time to "marinate" a little.

[TrickyBoy]

 

We started Broke By Sunday in January, and the response I've gotten from nearly every agent, club owner, or entertainment promoter that has booked us has been something along the lines of "It's so cool that you guys play a little bit of everything". Between the acoustic shows and band shows, we've got four to five nights a week booked in June and July, and all our weekend dates till I think November... and again, we played our first show on Jan. 1, 2010.

 

 

One of the fun parts about BWTB is the ability to watch other bands develop over time. Your band and mine have taken similar paths during 2010. The one thing about y'all that's been so interesting to me is the very analytical approach that you've taken. I know it may rub some people the wrong way, but everything from sound system to lighting to set list has been totally analyzed by y'all.

 

 

On the same side of that, I've had two agents tell me they liked the overall "package" of the band, but that my setlist was too varied, whereas they like to have bands they can label as "80's bands", "modern rock bands", "country bands", or whatever else. While we're doing fine, I kinda wonder if the agents that think that way might be better served to look around at what's working. In a given night, chances are good that our 10-2 set will include "Rebel Yell", "She's Country", "Pony", "Poker Face", "Cupid Shuffle", "All the Small Things", "Sweet Home Alabama", "Crazy Bitch", "What I Got", "Brown Eyed Girl", "Gangsta's Paradise", "Free Fallin", "Play That Funky Music", "Sex On Fire", "Save A Horse, Ride A Cowboy", "Maneater", "Holiday", and any number of other songs, with a good 75-80 percent of the 21 to 60 year old crowd knowing not just one or two, but ALL of those songs.

 

 

We're pretty similar in that we have a wide variety of songs in any given evening. The only thing I would always be cognisant of is there can be a fine line between "diverse" and "all over the place". As long as you are aware of that and you make efforts to "pull everything together" it can really be an advantage.

 

BTW - I understand what the agents are saying to you, as an 80's band is a safer bet for them than a variety act. Not saying they're right. Just saying that they are gamblers and they are going to put their money where their odds are the best.

 

 

I'm 27.. and I've been telling anyone who would listen since I was about 20 that the music business is moving further and further away from clearly defined genre lines, and more towards about what's got the broadest appeal.

 

 

I am definitely seeing this. Listen to SIRIUS Hits 1 - You'll hear everything from Hip Hop to Heavy rock to Pop to Modern Country.

 

 

It's a shame that here we are with that happening and some really GREAT musicians can't accept it. That's why you've got phenomenal musicians who will continue to play low rate, mediocre gigs where they're vastly unappreciated, all because they refuse to play things that some of the more successful bands do. I guess it's all about your priorities, and mine fall with entertaining a crowd coming in way above "maintaining my artistic integrity". I mean really.. my artistic integrity would be compromised if I was purposely NOT doing things I knew would further my career in music, wouldn't it? Anyways....

 

 

What's the shame? We're all in this racket for different reasons. There's a need for all types of music. And at the end of the day, set list is still IMO vastly over-rated. Find a band that can REALLY pull off stuff like Pride & Joy, Skynyrd, CCR, etc. and I guarantee they will do infinitely better than a half-assed party band with a trendier set. At the end of it all, the key is execution. I think we all sometimes get lost in the weeds and miss the obvious conclusion: The top bands do what they do better than the competition.

[mikeman]

Our band mixes everything from 60's to today and it goes over well. We are always trying to add some new stuff. We are going to start playing the new STP soon, but try to play more well known b side stuff that doesn't get played often along with fan favourites.

[Vito Corleone]

 

When "classic rock" adopted the grunge era, early 80s NWOBHM, along with the beginnings of hair metal, about ten years ago... that shoulda been your first clue to jettison your Doors, Beatles, and Stones. :poke:

Well, we just play songs until they stop working. FWIW, never did any Beatles, but the Doors and Stones tunes we do STILL work for the crowds we play. Just trying to keep on top of trends though.

 

But we do a wide variety of stuff that varies from gig-to-gig. The weddings we do especially. Depending on the age group of the crowd we might be doing "Mustang Sally" and "I'm A Believer" one night and Katy Perry and Jet then next. Or, like the last show we did, all 4 in the same night.

[maxnew40]

We only play 60s and 70s music and we have a found a niche in doing so. We stay as busy as we want to be and have been growing the act to get better pay and better venues. I have to say that I am not a fan of hip hop, or rap and would just as soon hang up my guitar than play that stuff (is there really any guitar other than samples in that stuff anyway?).

 

It is all about knowing your market. Lady GaGa is not going to go over at a classic car show and the Beatles and Stones aren't going to go over at a dance club for 20 somethings.

 

I think for every person that loves lady gaga and jayz there are just as many that would rather eat barbed wire than listen to thier music.

 

Max

 

The only way you can call any genre of music dead is when there is little to no market for it and no one is performing it.

[Vito Corleone]

 

I am definitely seeing this. Listen to SIRIUS Hits 1 - You'll hear everything from Hip Hop to Heavy rock to Pop to Modern Country.

 

 

This is a good point. For bands that use "what the chicks want to dance to" as a barometer, this is definately a factor. When I first started doing this back in the 70s and 80s, audiences by-and-large either liked metal or pop or country or whatever, but rarely crossed over. Today, the same girls who are packing the dance floor for Lady Gaga also know all the words to "Save A Horse" and "Livin on a Prayer". Those lines aren't as tightly drawn as they used to be.

[John Bartus]

We only play 60s and 70s music and we have a found a niche in doing so. We stay as busy as we want to be and have been growing the act to get better pay and better venues. I have to say that I am not a fan of hip hop, or rap and would just as soon hang up my guitar than play that stuff (is there really any guitar other than samples in that stuff anyway?). It is all about knowing your market. Lady GaGa is not going to go over at a classic car show and the Beatles and Stones aren't going to go over at a dance club for 20 somethings. I think for every person that loves lady gaga and jayz there are just as many that would rather eat barbed wire than listen to thier music. Max The only way you can call any genre of music dead is when there is little to no market for it and no one is performing it.

 

+1

[Blackbird 13]

 

What's the shame? We're all in this racket for different reasons. There's a need for all types of music. And at the end of the day, set list is still IMO vastly over-rated. Find a band that can REALLY pull off stuff like Pride & Joy, Skynyrd, CCR, etc. and I guarantee they will do infinitely better than a half-assed party band with a trendier set. At the end of it all, the key is execution. I think we all sometimes get lost in the weeds and miss the obvious conclusion: The top bands do what they do better than the competition.

 

 

I guess I'm referring more to musicians who really WANT to have that party band vibe, to do what you, or I, or even Grant's group does, but they don't have any idea how. I can't count the number of musicians locally that have needled me about how we're working as steady as we are.. and it's a combination of a lot of things, but being willing to play anything is a good first step.

 

As far as the comment about the top bands.... this is true, but what they do better isn't always play music, or even entertain. One of the upper tier bands in my area has really only gotten anywhere because they have an excellent setlist. The musicianship is mediocre, the entertainment factor wears off after a few songs.. but they keep people dancing...

[Blackbird 13]

 

We only play 60s and 70s music and we have a found a niche in doing so. We stay as busy as we want to be and have been growing the act to get better pay and better venues. I have to say that I am not a fan of hip hop, or rap and would just as soon hang up my guitar than play that stuff (is there really any guitar other than samples in that stuff anyway?). It is all about knowing your market. Lady GaGa is not going to go over at a classic car show and the Beatles and Stones aren't going to go over at a dance club for 20 somethings. I think for every person that loves lady gaga and jayz there are just as many that would rather eat barbed wire than listen to thier music. Max The only way you can call any genre of music dead is when there is little to no market for it and no one is performing it.

 

 

I know you said 60s and 70s, but for the record, I would love to play in a 50s and 60s cover band. I don't think I'd trade what I'm doing now for it.. but it would be a lot of fun. I may end up trying to find material from those eras that we can throw in our set anyways.

 

I guess it's different for me. I like everything from Dean Martin to Jay Z... it's all music to me. And playing hip hop keyboard parts on a guitar can be a cool "how are they doing that song with a guitar?" vibe from a crowd.

 

I guess as a generalization, you're right.. but a band that plays both could do both gigs.

 

I'm not knocking you doing what you're doing, and in my previous post, I wasn't referring to the musicians who are already on the path they wanna be on. I was more focused on the musicians who would be the ones to play the Stones and the Beatles at the younger dance club and then whine and complain to anyone that will listen when they didn't go over as well as the half as talented band the night before that played Lada Gaga and Tone Loc all night.

[Vito Corleone]

 

On the same side of that, I've had two agents tell me they liked the overall "package" of the band, but that my setlist was too varied, whereas they like to have bands they can label as "80's bands", "modern rock bands", "country bands", or whatever else. While we're doing fine, I kinda wonder if the agents that think that way might be better served to look around at what's working.

 

 

The agents don't want to take chances. They worry that A) 'variety' bands end up being not great at anything and B) that the band won't do what needs to be done at a particular gig. If a client wants an 80s band and the agent sends out an 80 band, their work is done. They don't have to worry about sending a variety band that only knows a handful of 80s songs.

 

We don't work with agents a lot. We book ourselves, largely through Gigmasters, and our variety works in our favor. With the agents we do work with, we've had to carefully explain to them (and then show them by actually doing the work) that we will and can taylor our setlist to the crowd. Often on the fly. Typical example: we were booked for a convention a few weeks back and were told nothing about the age or makeup of the crowd. We were only told they wanted "classic rock". (which I've learned means different things to different people) We show up ready to play our 'standard' set but notice while these people are eating dinner that there is virtually no-one there under 50. So we jettison virtually all the 80s and newer stuff, load up on the disco and the few 'oldies' we do, find out the president of the organization plays guitar, so we get him up to play and sing "Johnny B Goode" and we were a huge hit. We were told before we started by the event coordinator that the crowd usually leaves early and we probably wouldn't have to play too long. We not only did our full set, but "the hat" got passed around so that we'd play a few more songs.

 

Not to toot my own horn (OK, maybe I am...) but had the agent put in most any other 'classic rock' act, they'd likely have blown it.

[BillBrasky]

I think I've posted here before that I've noticed at least the beginning of a need to "youth up" our material. The 60s and 70s classic rock stuff just isn't getting the same response it did even a year or two ago, so I think it's time to replace that with more 90s and 00s stuff. As a result of this (and the fact we added a female vocalist--largely because I want to do more current stuff) I've been spending more time listening to the radio in search of songs. And I've noticed that some of these stations have done the same thing. Most of these radio stations are programmed nationally, so you've probably noticed the same thing in your areas? We have a station here called "Magic" which is primarily music-for-ladies-who-work-in-the-office. Everytime I've turned on this station in the past I've been bombarded with Michael Bolton and REO Speedwagon and Beatles and Lovin' Spoonful. Now they've completely gotten rid of the 60s and 70s stuff and are playing all 80s and 90s and edgier stuff. Some hip-hop sounding material and I heard "Poker Face" the other day. Another one is the format called "Alice" which is primarily what I would call "soft alternative". Nothing harder than maybe Alanis Morissette. Again, I think their demographic is primarily female. They too have added a lot of more recent dance-y hip-hop sounding material. So it seems this shift away from 60s and 70s isn't just something I've noticed (or imagined) or something that is local or regional, but is actually taking place. Makes sense. The average age of your typical office-worker stays the same. But the year they graduated high school gets more recent every year.

 

Your entire set list can be determined by the songs featured in Guitar Hero and Rockband

[rhat]

We play a nitch setlist. Orignal and cover beach music, country both modern and outlaw, and texas music along with some 60s and 70s rock. In south texas that stuff pretty well flys with the locals and the tourists. Its a sit down crowd for the most part and the focus in on up close entertainment and interacting with the peeps kind of show. Mike likes to interact with the crowd... that is his draw.

[TrickyBoy]

Your entire set list can be determined by the songs featured in Guitar Hero and Rockband

 

You know, I've toyed with going to Guitar Hero for song ideas. Haven't done it yet, but it's funny how many kids know songs like "Mother" by Danzig because of that game.

[JoeDirt]

I've brought up Guitar Hero and Rock Band before with my band mates when discussing new material, especially material that college age people will like.

 

They didn't believe me how many kids in college play Rock Band and as Tricky mentioned know songs like Mother just because they are in the game.

 

Sometimes it's like talking to a wall.

[Nijyo]

 

I've brought up Guitar Hero and Rock Band before with my band mates when discussing new material, especially material that college age people will like. They didn't believe me how many kids in college play Rock Band and as Tricky mentioned know songs like Mother just because they are in the game. Sometimes it's like talking to a wall.

 

 

Hell, there's grade schoolers playing 70s-80's "guitar rock" songs in GC that were out of rotation for 20 years explicitly because of Guitar Hero and Rock Band. If that's not a testament to the cultural reach of those games, I dunno what is.