Contracts With Bars

[mineame]

Just had a bar owner screw us out of a gig this weekend w/ some slimy cheese ball story that doesn't hold water...

 

Anyways, we didn't have a contract with the guy as he had been a stand up dude in the past. Do you guys use contracts? If so are they actually worth something or is the paper they on worth more?

 

If any of you would be so kind as to PM me, so I can give you an email address to send me a blank contract, I would really appreciate that too.

[BlueStrat]

Found this one online, similar to what I use. I delete what doesn't apply and edit some things as well.

 

[band Name]

LIVE MUSIC PERFORMANCE CONTRACT

Customer:

Customer contact person name and telephone:

Performance Location:

Performance Date:

Performance Start Time: End Time:

Performance Fee: $ Circle one: [indoors][Outdoors]

Band Obligations

1. Band agrees to provide a [describe band

[BlueStrat]

And another, simpler one.

 

http://www.blues101.org/articles/contracts3.htm

[mineame]

Thanks Pat.

[tim_7string]

Thanks, BlueStrat. I converted both to Word documents and saved 'em. I'll be using them for my new upcoming band.

 

Speaking of contracts, I just learned tonight that we won't be playing New Year's Eve after all at the place we were scheduled to play. The bar owner made a serious error and booked a large corporate/wedding-type band at his bar last Saturday. He paid $1200 for them and I believe they're a 7-10 piece band. I actually performed with them for a New Year's Eve bash in a hotel ballroom back in 2005.

 

60 people showed up (mostly older folks, I'm guessing, since they play a lot of old 50s/60s tunes) and they all drank water instead of liquor, so he lost his shirt on that. He's actually working by himself at the bar now to make up for the heavy loss, because he can't even pay his staff! (It's a small town bar.)

 

He's still going to pay us for the Thanksgiving Eve gig, but not only will he not be able to pay for the proposed Jan 1st gig for an extra $400, he won't even be able to pay the agreed-upon price of $800 for NYE, a gig we had on the books several months ago. He was trying to talk the bass player down to $400.

 

For New Year's Eve. Four...hundred...dollars.

 

So, we will play the gig next week, and go with another establishment that has been dying to have us play THEIR NYE party instead. Kind of works out for us, but we got lucky.

 

The point is, we didn't use a contract, so the bar that lost a lot of money could have very easily cancelled out on our gig next week as well and there would have been nothing we could have done about it. The fact that we didn't use a contract also frees us from having to play there at all for NYE, so I guess it worked out, but it could have been really ugly. It still might be, I dunno. We shall see...

[JohnMCA72]

I always say this: The best possible time to find out that somebody intends to screw me over is when they balk at signing a contract!

 

That said, sometimes you just can't get it done your way & you've got to take your chances. Every case is different. Tim: Sounds like that 1st guy may not even be in the bar business by NYE!

[Marko]

I

[tim_7string]

I

[ckcondon]

I use a contract for all private functions and corporate gigs.

The reality of presenting a bar owner in my town with a contract would be way against the grain and liable to get us blackballed as being difficult to deal with.

We play established rooms and have good relationships with the management at most of them.

We're basically in the "Deal on a handshake" business at the bar level.

 

For those of you who can say "Contract or no booking" I applaud you, but it just doesn't work that way most places in the bar scene.

[BlueStrat]

 

I use a contract for all private functions and corporate gigs. The reality of presenting a bar owner in my town with a contract would be way against the grain and liable to get us blackballed as being difficult to deal with. We play established rooms and have good relationships with the management at most of them. We're basically in the "Deal on a handshake" business at the bar level. For those of you who can say "Contract or no booking" I applaud you, but it just doesn't work that way most places in the bar scene.

 

 

 

Every bar I've booked into as a new band I've used a contract, and never had an issue. Once I've played there a few times I may dispense with it, once I have a business relationship with the owner/management and we can trust one another, but it's a per case basis. I can't tell you how many times I've showed up at clubs I've played for years only to find they have a new manager who doesn't know who I am and doesn't seem to know anything about our bookings or how much we were guaranteed. Or we're getting paid at the end of the night by a bartender who didn't get the word and tries to pay us 200 less than we agreed upon. A contract eliminates those issues. I'll be the first to admit we don't use them at every gig, but when we're going into a new venue we haven't played, we definitely will the first few times in.

 

I've found that the more I treat booking my band as a business, the more respect I get from club owners/managers and the less I get jacked around to begin with. Guys who don't seem to treat it as a business are far more likely to get reamed, and the threads here I see every week only confirm that.

[tim_7string]

 

I've found that the more I treat booking my band as a business, the more respect I get from club owners/managers and the less I get jacked around to begin with. Guys who don't seem to treat it as a business are far more likely to get reamed, and the threads here I see every week only confirm that.

 

 

That's what I told my wife last night, that it will present us as business professionals, but at the same time, she admitted that he will probably not sign it.

 

I guess I need to change my attitude. I don't want to come off as desperate and I think I did that with the bar I played back in February. The bar owner wanted me to help him out since he was bandless that following weekend, so I put a band together. Then he tells me I have to give him a $100 off discount, because we're new and he doesn't know how it will go over (untested). He only pays $700 for two nights, so now it's down to $600, which is what I can get in one bar for one night out of town. This pissed me off, but I still agreed to it.

 

On reflection, I should have stood my ground and said, "Look man, you wanted ME to help YOU. If you don't want my help, find someone else. Pay me the standard fee or forget it." I don't like being an asshole, but in business and with the economy the way it is these days, I'm thinking I have to be a lot firmer to protect my OWN interests. Bar owners and others are certainly protecting theirs.

[TrickyBoy]

Why we use contracts now...

 

We play a gig maybe 6 months ago. The place is out of town and we're already playing for a reduced rate. It's all informal - yeah, start at 10, play 3 hour sets take breaks we close at 2 blah blah blah

 

Well, we brought about 80 people to the show including a friend of our singer's bachelorette party. In total the club had less than 10 patrons that we didn't being, so in total we played to about 90 people.

 

Start right at 10, at 11 going into break, the crowd really into it, so we only take a 10 minute break and get right back into it. Same thing after the second set. By one a clock the crowd is dwindled down to the point that there's only 15 or so people there and they are all friends and family of ours. So around 1:30, after completing our third hour set, we say thank you and then go have a couple beers with our friends before they head out.

 

{censored}ers stiffed us 20% of our pay, because according the manager, we had been "contracted to play until two". It's complete bull{censored} and I've come to find after the fact this is a relatively common practice at this place. We had "unkind" words and went on our way.

 

Moving forward, we have a standard contract that I got from Pat and modified that has eliminated any miscommunications such as this from happening again. I've attached it.

[Vito Corleone]

Honestly, I don't know if I have ever used a contract for a bar gig in any band I've ever played in. Closest I have come to that was back in the day when everything I did went through our exclusive booking agent and I presume there was some sort of contract between the agent and the clubs, but I don't know.

 

But for corporate/wedding/private gigs, everything has a signed contract and usually we require people to pay a deposit up front.

[mineame]

We have had two incidents in the last three weeks that have effected our gig schedule. A contract may have helped us out.

 

1) Booked a December date for a bar back in September. I called last week to confirm, ensure every thing is still tracking. Well they had parted ways with the booker not long after the gig had been booked. Said booker did not write anything down and our date had already been filled.

 

2) This one really hurt... A club that we have played like 4 or 5 times. Changed ownership during that time. Didn't seem to matter as the new owner really put forward that he loved us. Asked us to be his house band, always called to ensure that we were going to make the gig. It really seemed like the perfect scenario.

 

Well back in the first week of Nov. he calls me up and tells me that he isn't having live music two nights in a row anymore. That he has to change the Nov 19-20 gig, and give me Nov 12 & Nov 19. (What upset me about this is, he had told me this at our last gig, but ensured me he would be a man of his word and keep the already booked Nov 19&20.) Anyways, I let him know that I have to check with the band. Band OK's it, but I can't find a fill in date for Nov 13 or 20 (We prefer to gig two nights in a row).

 

So I call the bar owner up and let him know we will do it. But at our one night rate. He scoffed a bit, but took it. Soooooooooooo Nov 12 rolls around, and there is a shooting about a 1/2 block from the bar. His bar was inside the perimeter that was set for the investigation. The police informed him that they would be there till after midnight. Bar owner asks me to cancel. So what can I do? I am not a prick, and neither is anyone in the band. We let him off the hook for Nov 12.

 

This last Tuesday rolls around. I get a call from the bar owner. He starts giving me a sob story about how he was caught without his cabaret license on Saturday and he wasn't sure if there was enough time to get one, so he can't have any type of live entertainment.

 

Well, me being the pro active guy that I am. I start calling around to determine what the time line is for getting a license renewed. I wind up getting connected to the officer in charge of authorizing it. He asks which bar, I let him know. He informs me that there are no problems with this bar, and it will be renewed inside of 24 hours of said bar owner requesting the renewal.

 

I call the bar owner back, and now his troubles with the license aren't related to time, but $$$$. He throws out some huge number for the renewal, which isn't correct, and will let me know if he is going to renew the license after he does some more research.

 

Tuesday night rolls around, this bar hosts a jam night. Which he shouldn't be doing. Wednesday afternoon rolls around, and I am giving this some more thought. Then it hits me. If the bar owner knew as of Saturday night that his cabaret license is expired, why did he call me on a Tuesday w/o having all his ducks in a row?

 

I call the bar back to talk to the owner, to see if he has made a decision. Bar owner isn't in. But the bartender informs me that they aren't having any band this weekend and they probably won't be having any bands throughout the winter. It was at this time that I informed the bartender to get my bands name off their reader board outside.

 

 

 

So we think it's now time to start doing contracts. In the last two weeks we have been screwed over by a bar we aren't established with and a bar we were established with.

[tim_7string]

 

Why we use contracts now... We play a gig maybe 6 months ago. The place is out of town and we're already playing for a reduced rate. It's all informal - yeah, start at 10, play 3 hour sets take breaks we close at 2 blah blah blah Well, we brought about 80 people to the show including a friend of our singer's bachelorette party. In total the club had less than 10 patrons that we didn't being, so in total we played to about 90 people. Start right at 10, at 11 going into break, the crowd really into it, so we only take a 10 minute break and get right back into it. Same thing after the second set. By one a clock the crowd is dwindled down to the point that there's only 15 or so people there and they are all friends and family of ours. So around 1:30, after completing our third hour set, we say thank you and then go have a couple beers with our friends before they head out. {censored}ers stiffed us 20% of our pay, because according the manager, we had been "contracted to play until two". It's complete bull{censored} and I've come to find after the fact this is a relatively common practice at this place. We had "unkind" words and went on our way. Moving forward, we have a standard contract that I got from Pat and modified that has eliminated any miscommunications such as this from happening again. I've attached it.

 

 

Thanks for the attachment. I've saved that one as well.

 

Question: do you use them for bars you play it in your immediate area (local) as well or just for out-of-town venues? Or is it an "across the board" decision (every place, every time)?

[maxnew40]

I have never had any luck with contracts for bars, only large venues, festivals, and private parties. Bar owners will just flat out refuse to sign a contract and will just book some other band that doesn't try and make them sign a legal document that they don't have to time or expertise to read and understand.

 

Max

[Kramerguy]

the scene here is DYING horribly, yes, the local cover-band scene..

 

The economy is tanking pretty bad here. Belts are tightened, people are staying at home and drinking. Several bars and pubs that hosted bands either stopped having bands, or closed entirely. More bands than clubs now. What's happening is a weening process.

 

The bands that can pull vs. the bands who can't.

 

And almost every place now pays "the door". Your pull = your pay.

 

Pulling out a contract would only get you laughed at and ensure you don't play there anytime soon.

 

Just saying.. maybe different in your neck, and maybe even different in Philly, but here is pennsyltucky.. forgettaboutit.

 

I'm just glad I'm in a band that can pull- most of our 2011 gigs are for the door.

[Rezrover]

We play at places that we really don't need to worry about contracts; we've already got a great working relationship but it seems that the places that I would want to use a contract with; wouldn't sign them in the first place.

 

 

I guess we do sign a contract with a casino we play at. I edited out some info but here:

[callous]

I wonder what happens when the venue fails to honor the contract?

 

You got a lawyer?

[Marko]

 

I wonder what happens when the venue fails to honor the contract? You got a lawyer?

 

 

I guess it could be a matter for small-claims court if the band wanted to push it.

[tim_7string]

 

I guess it could be a matter for small-claims court if the band wanted to push it.

 

 

Yep. As long as you have their signature on paper, you have it "in writing" and you have a shot at getting your money back.

 

I think most places would want to settle before it reaches that point, but at least you would have some leeway.

[TrickyBoy]

 

Thanks for the attachment. I've saved that one as well. Question: do you use them for bars you play it in your immediate area (local) as well or just for out-of-town venues? Or is it an "across the board" decision (every place, every time)?

 

 

Any new venue. However, the last two new places we played actually had a contract ready for us that laid everything out.

 

The venues we have existing verbal agreements with we haven't gone back and had anything signed.

[Kramerguy]

sue a local bar for breach and see how fast word spreads to other bars.

 

just sayin...

[TrickyBoy]

 

I have never had any luck with contracts for bars, only large venues, festivals, and private parties. Bar owners will just flat out refuse to sign a contract and will just book some other band that doesn't try and make them sign a legal document that they don't have to time or expertise to read and understand. Max

 

 

Here's a way around that. Send them an Email with the details that you have negotiated:

 

"Dear XXXXX,

 

The XYZ's are really excited to be given the opportunity to play at your venue. Just to confirm the details.

 

- We are playing on from 10 PM and ending at 1:45 AM

- We are expected to play 3 one our sets with 20 minute breaks between each set.

- We are expected to arrive at 8 PM to set up and sound check

- We are responsible for providing all required sound and light equipment

- We will be paid $XXXX for our services. In addition, band member will receive a $XX bar allowance.

 

Is this correct. Please respond back and let me know if I missed anything"

 

Believe it or not, while not as good as a contract, if he responds back that yes that's good, it will more often than not hold up in a small claims court.

[TrickyBoy]

 

sue a local bar for breach and see how fast word spreads to other bars. just sayin...

 

 

I totally agree. While having an agreement in writing does make a lawsuit more easily win-able, it's not the real purpose of the agreement. The purpose is to be proactive in hammering out all the details prior to the show. By putting them in writing, you never run into the "I never said that" syndrome.