Dad bands

[Vito Corleone]

I dont see hawaii as a good place to run that model. I do see south padre as a decent place. Its near austin and some good studio and session guys a producers and most of all well known songwriters and artists. You get lots of traffic from houston , and dallas the valley , and colorado and all over the place. we get invaded by people from the upper midwest in the winter. It aint a bad place to live either.

Yeah...Hawai'i doesn't get any traffic, doesn't have any decent Hawai'ian musicians, songwriters, artists or studios, doesn't get invaded by people from the mainland in the winter, doesn't have any local bar/restaurants with local artists playing a mix of covers and originals for the tourists and loyal locals and is a {censored}ty place to live

Dude...SPI WISHES it was Hawai'i.

[TIMKEYS]

Yeah...Hawai'i doesn't get any traffic and is a {censored}ty place to live:facepalm:

 

 

Its too isolated ,,, christ you are on a freekin rock out in the middle of the pacific. The place is pretty well a one time in a lifetime destination for the vast majority of the country. Its way too far from the music industry. It might be fine for a guy who already has made it ,, or just wants to live there and play music and sell a few CDs. I guess it worked for don ho lol

[Vito Corleone]

It might be fine for a guy who already has made it ,, or just wants to live there and play music and sell a few CDs.

 

 

First of all, you probably waaaay underestimate how many people go to Hawai'i on a regular basis. But what do you think is gonna happen in SPI? International stardom? No...at most you become a regional hero and sell a few drinks and dinners and a few CDs. Same deal in Hawai'i, only with better beaches.

 

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Vito Corleone]

I guess it worked for don ho lol

 

 

Actually, it's worked really well for a lot of guys who you probably wouldn't know unless you went there. Kinda like your dude down there.

 

You really don't think SPI, Texas is the only --or even the best---place in the world where the drag-the-tourists-to-the-beach-and-sell-em-some-drinks-and-CDs model works, do you? Tourists go EVERYwhere man. Hawai'l gets some 8 million tourists a year. Hell, even Lake Tahoe pulls in some 2 million a year (although most don't stay as long as they do in Hawai'i.)

[TIMKEYS]

Yeah...Hawai'i doesn't get any traffic, doesn't have any decent Hawai'ian musicians, songwriters, artists or studios, doesn't get invaded by people from the mainland in the winter, doesn't have any local bar/restaurants with local artists playing a mix of covers and originals for the tourists and loyal locals and is a {censored}ty place to live Dude...SPI WISHES it was Hawai'i.

Not so sure about that ,,,, This economy is gonna take its toll on a destination thats that far away. This place isnt heaven by a long shot , but it is affordable and it is growing. It also has room to grow ,,,

[Roy Brooks]

I am 48 and a working musician. I am not a dad. I will play anything at all that a band leader who hires me wants me to play whether it is old or new or what kind of music it is. Even though I will play it when called upon to do so I don't particularly enjoy playing classic rock or blues rock. The only time I paid much attention to the popular music on the radio was the early 1980s during the new wave era. And even then I had to listen to a few tunes on the radio before they got to one I liked.

[Vito Corleone]

Not so sure about that ,,,, This economy is gonna take its toll on a destination thats that far away. This place isnt heaven by a long shot , but it is affordable and it is growing. It also has room to grow ,,,

 

 

The economy will hurt tourism in lots of places, but Hawai'i isn't going anywhere. Seriously....is that what you believe? The poor economy will drag down Hawai'i...the musicians there will suffer...so south east Texas will reign king?

 

I think you're spending too much time bellied up to the bar listening to the old timers wax poetic.

 

Look---all I said is that what you said about SPI...I've see the same thing too in Hawai'i. (All up and down the coast of California for that matter too.) So why you gotta come back with an attitude that somehow I'm WRONG about that model being viable somewhere else? What's wrong with just agreeing that it probably works in a LOT of places?

 

Fact is...a LOT of people like Hawai'ian music. It moves a decent amount of product. And you don't really find it anywhere else. The Americana thing is kinda all over....America.

[TIMKEYS]

Actually, it's worked really well for a lot of guys who you probably wouldn't know unless you went there. Kinda like your dude down there. You really don't think SPI, Texas is the only --or even the best---place in the world where the drag-the-tourists-to-the-beach-and-sell-em-some-drinks-and-CDs model works, do you? Tourists go EVERYwhere man. Hawai'l gets some 8 million tourists a year. Hell, even Lake Tahoe pulls in some 2 million a year (although most don't stay as long as they do in Hawai'i.)

 

 

dave its one of the most affordable. for sure it not the only place ,,, it is the only place for me though. NO way could I have ever afforded the place i have in any other beach community in the country. thats a fact. as for the CD sales. I think he sells most of his CDs off the net. He get pretty good radio play. you go to hawaii ,, i am gonna stay right here .... its paid for lol.

[Vito Corleone]

dave its one of the most affordable. for sure it not the only place ,,, it is the only place for me though. NO way could I have ever afforded the place i have in any other beach community in the country. thats a fact. as for the CD sales. I think he sells most of his CDs off the net. He get pretty good radio play. you go to hawaii ,, i am gonna stay right here .... its paid for lol.

So is my place in Hawai'i.

Look I'm glad you're happy there and that it's the only place for you. But I gotta question how happy you are there if you've gotta run down every other place and every other gig in order to make you feel secure about it. I don't know if that's what you're doing or not, but it kinda sounds like it sometimes.

[jimiv]

 

I dont see hawaii as a good place to run that model. I do see south padre as a decent place. Its near austin and some good studio and session guys a producers and most of all well known songwriters and artists. You get lots of traffic from houston , and dallas the valley , and colorado and all over the place. we get invaded by people from the upper midwest in the winter. It aint a bad place to live either. Is it the ticket to be a rock star, who knows , but its sure as hell better than a lot of places. For a songwriter ,, its not a bad home base. If you write about the beach, the sun and the sand , its alot better place than atlanta GA. Toes in the gutter ass on the curb I buy my pot from a guy named herb

 

 

C'mon man, Hawaii is a total tourist magnet. You are definitely suffering from east coastism. (terrible disease they say).

[TIMKEYS]

So is my place in Hawai'i. Look I'm glad you're happy there and that it's the only place for you. But I gotta question how happy you are there if you've gotta run down every other place and every other gig in order to make you feel secure about it. I don't know if that's what you're doing or not, but it kinda sounds like it sometimes.

Dave you are the one thats got the hair trigger sensitivity on most of these threads. You think that the sit and park model would work great in hawaii ,, i just happed to think its a little too isolated for someone thats a networking songwriter trying to sell product,make connections in the industry and picking a base of operations, thats all. Hell a guy could go sit in nashville or austin too ,, but that would kinda suck if you wanna go catch redfish on your day off ..

plant themselves on some remote island like Molokai come on there buddy ,, you cant be serious ,, how many people do you think end up at molokai when they go on a vacation to the islands.

[TIMKEYS]

C'mon man, Hawaii is a total tourist magnet. You are definitely suffering from east coastism. (terrible disease they say).

 

 

last time I checked I was on the third coast. or the southern tip of the northern edge of the western carribean sea

[BryanMichael]

I hear that ,,, i think the secret is to be able to write better songs. There is a difference between an amateur written song and one thats written by a gifted pro. Ya gotta figure ,, someone wrote those covers you are doing. Not sure if there is a magic bullet to it,,,, but I dont think a songwriter should lock himself into just an original music scene because thats doesnt get the music out there enough.

 

 

I still disagree- it had nothing to do with the "quality" of the song, the crowd had similar responses whenever we would play a more obscure cover by an established act. Or threw in a popular pop/country/rock tune in a set in front of a more urban audience. The song might KILL at a club in Lancaster (Ohio) and people in the Brewery District would be baffled and leave the dance floor in droves, then you have to work to get them back. Again, in my experience it depended on the audience and venue- I go back to the big corporate or wedding gig where you are being paid a significant amount of money to be the "entertainment" for the evening. No one really wants to hear something obscure, edgy, original, or different.

 

The "dance" clubs were a little more forgiving, and sometimes people would even say "I haven't heard that song before- who does it?" But the majority of people are there to dance and have a good time- and for some reason they couldn't make the leap between something they haven't heard before and the basic beat/rhythm that you need to keep a set going.

 

Again, this is just my experience gigging semi-pro for 13 years around town (1988-2001) - I found the best response for "original" music was at clubs where people were there to hear "original" music and were paying more attention. I really think it comes down to reading your audience and catering to them. But as always, YMMV.

[modulusman]

dave its one of the most affordable. for sure it not the only place ,,, it is the only place for me though. NO way could I have ever afforded the place i have in any other beach community in the country. thats a fact. as for the CD sales. I think he sells most of his CDs off the net. He get pretty good radio play. you go to hawaii ,, i am gonna stay right here .... its paid for lol.

 

 

Maybe if you were getting PAID you could. :poke: You play 5-6 nights a week at a $100.00 a night that is extra 2-2.5k a month.

[pickinatit]

"Grooves" that you find so important to the 60s and 70s R&B that you love didn't even EXIST for the most part in the 40s and certainly weren't appreciated or considered to be a element of a "good" song by most people of that generation in the 60s or 70s either.

 

 

Playing catch-up again today.

I couldn't disagree with this statement more!! The Charleston and other "roaring twenties" music was ALL about groove. Hell, even back when the dance of the day was the March...that was a groove. I can sort of understand why you might not consider it a groove by today's standards I suppose, but change the "groove" of a March and watch the marchers scratch their heads.

Glenn Miller's "In The Mood" wasn't about groove? "Jitter Bug" wasn't about groove? Give me a break!

[Vito Corleone]

Dave you are the one thats got the hair trigger sensitivity on most of these threads. You think that the sit and park model would work great in hawaii ,, i just happed to think its a little too isolated for someone thats a networking songwriter trying to sell product,make connections in the industry and picking a base of operations, thats all. Hell a guy could go sit in nashville or austin too ,, but that would kinda suck if you wanna go catch redfish on your day off .. plant themselves on some remote island like Molokai come on there buddy ,, you cant be serious ,, how many people do you think end up at molokai when they go on a vacation to the islands.

 

 

I brought up Moloka'i because I was just thinking of one particular dude when I posted that and even he does alright for himself. But there's all sorts of those cats on every island. Many make a damn good living at it.

[Vito Corleone]

Playing catch-up again today. I couldn't disagree with this statement more!! The Charleston and other "roaring twenties" music was ALL about groove. Hell, even back when the dance of the day was the March...that was a groove. I can sort of understand why you might not consider it a groove by today's standards I suppose, but change the "groove" of a March and watch the marchers scratch their heads. Glenn Miller's "In The Mood" wasn't about groove? "Jitter Bug" wasn't about groove? Give me a break!

 

 

Point taken. Perhaps I should have said "different groove that wasn't apprecicated or considered to be good."

[Vito Corleone]

Maybe if you were getting PAID you could. :poke: You play 5-6 nights a week at a $100.00 a night that is extra 2-2.5k a month.

I suppose there's always opportunities in SPI to make extra cash by picking up seaweed off the beach...

[SeniorBlues]

Point taken. Perhaps I should have said "different groove that wasn't apprecicated or considered to be good."

I do think there's a qualitative difference between grooves, both from the perspective of a trained versatile musician and from the perspective of someone who is seriously into dancing. A lot of guys who talk about groove, but don't count and can't dance. They memorize the song and follow each other, but don't really feel it on their own.

That isn't to say that the rhythmic component of all music is equally important . . . it isn't. Same with harmony and melody . . . . but these are the elements of music and can be discussed critically.

One of the reasons so many people love to hate disco is the monotonous rhythm.
Boom-a-tish boom-a-tish boom-a-tish . . . . . .

[Vito Corleone]

One of the reasons so many people love to hate disco is the monotonous rhythm. Boom-a-tish boom-a-tish boom-a-tish . . . . . .

Exactly. Which is the same reason so many people love to dance to it.

That's been my whole point here: that many of the same elements one person loves about a song or style of music and finds integral are often the EXACT same things someone from an older generation either doesn't understand or finds downright distasteful, so I think it's impossible to put qualitative measures to such disparate types of music.

To dismiss modern music because it not only doesn't contain elements found in older songs that you think should be present in any "good" song and contains other elements you either don't understand or find distasteful well....that's kind of the point. Music changes -- often driven by the technology used to create it. It's supposed to. Simply because you don't hear anything in modern music that has the elements that you think make a Beatles or Stevie Wonder song transcendent....so what? They'll likely have other qualities that make them transcend. But which of todays songs and artists and writers will be the ones that the NEXT generation or the one AFTER THAT will still find relevant to THEIR time? I don't think there is any possible way to predict just based on breaking down the songwriting or any such thing.

[SeniorBlues]

 

Exactly. Which is the same reason so many people love to dance to it. That's been my whole point here: that many of the same elements one person loves about a song or style of music and finds integral are often the EXACT same things someone from an older generation either doesn't understand or finds downright distasteful, so I think it's impossible to put qualitative measures to such disparate types of music. To dismiss modern music because it not only doesn't contain elements found in older songs that you think should be present in any "good" song and contains other elements you either don't understand or find distasteful well....that's kind of the point. Music changes -- often driven by the technology used to create it. It's supposed to. Simply because you don't hear anything in modern music that has the elements that you think make a Beatles or Stevie Wonder song transcendent....so what? They'll likely have other qualities that make them transcend. But which of todays songs and artists and writers will be the ones that the NEXT generation or the one AFTER THAT will still find relevant to THEIR time? I don't think there is any possible way to predict just based on breaking down the songwriting or any such thing.

 

 

Dave, you keep harping on the comparisons. I'm trying to look at it for what it is. It needs to stand on it's own.

[Vito Corleone]

It needs to stand on it's own.

 

 

And it will. But most likely for reasons you don't appreciate.

 

Disco is a great example to bring up. --- totally dismissed by the musos of the day. Especially those into rock and even R&B. Maurice White once blamed disco for ruining soul music. I doubt anyone thought any of it would be transcendent. But much of it is. My band can rip into one of the disco songs we do and pack the dance floor with young people whose parents were just kids when the songs were popular. Why? What is it about those songs that has made them stand on their own? The complex chord changes? Beautiful melodies and harmonies? Deep, soulful lyrics? No. There is nothing even remotely like that in any KC & The Sunshine Band or Donna Summer song.

 

They work with young kids today for the same reason they worked 35 years ago: they're fun to dance to. Trick is---there were hundreds of similarly 'great' disco songs released back in the 70s. But who could have predicted which ones would transcend decades later? Yeah, the biggest hits are always an easy target, but even that isn't always the case. You can't really predict that because that often has to do with other cultural events in the future...does the song end up in a big movie, for example.

[Agitator]

 

Playing catch-up again today. I couldn't disagree with this statement more!! The Charleston and other "roaring twenties" music was ALL about groove. Hell, even back when the dance of the day was the March...that was a groove. I can sort of understand why you might not consider it a groove by today's standards I suppose, but change the "groove" of a March and watch the marchers scratch their heads. Glenn Miller's "In The Mood" wasn't about groove? "Jitter Bug" wasn't about groove? Give me a break!

 

 

I think David is talking about something more specific with "Groove" than just something you can dance to.

 

There were always specific rhythms that were associated with specific dances, but that's not the same thing (to my mind) as the 70s style of groove music, which is basically *only* a groove. One chord, maybe two, with a killer beat. I imagine there must have been the occasional novelty song like this in the pre-war days, but "In the Mood" is certainly a fully-formed song in a way that "Superstition" isn't, to a traditionalist. The immediate roots of "Superstition" go back more to the blues tradition -- Howlin' Wolf and Bo Diddly, for example -- more than the swing age.

[Vito Corleone]

Another reason it's impossible to try and predict which songs will be transendent: a lot of what makes a song or artist timeless goes beyond the music. "Over The Rainbow" is a classic. GREAT song on almost every level. But had that song not been in a movie that all of us saw at least once a year for decades on TV....would it be the classic it is today? It's possible it might not even really be known at ALL.

"Purple Haze" is a classic tune. But how much of that has to do not with the quality of the song itself but with Hendrix' performance of it and his status as a guitar god?

"Billie Jean" is a song that it seems just about every cover band plays these days and likely will for years to come. But how much of that popularity is the infectious groove of the song and how much of it is simply because it's Michael Jackson? A few years ago almost no one was playing that song because it WAS Michael Jackson. Then he dies and the whole perception of him and his music changes.

[kmart]

I dont see hawaii as a good place to run that model. I do see south padre as a decent place. Its near austin and some good studio and session guys a producers and most of all well known songwriters and artists. You get lots of traffic from houston , and dallas the valley , and colorado and all over the place. we get invaded by people from the upper midwest in the winter...

Wow...total reality FAIL.


According to the SPI Convention and Visitors Bureau:
SPI sees aprroximately 1,000,000 overnight visitors each year.
Also according to the SPI C & VB (And to anybody who pays attention), SPI is a HUGE HS & college Spring Break destination.

FACT would be that those ~1m overnight visitors INCLUDES all those spring-breakers.
LOGICAL ASSUMPTION would be that some significant percentage of 1m consists of those same spring-breakers.
LOGICAL ASSUMPTION would be that by and large, those kids don't inject a huge amount of $ into the local economy. Sure, they pay for hotels and drinks, but not a lot beyond that: ANYBODY who's been to HS/college or on spring break ANYWHERE knows that.


BY COMPARISON:
Hawaii:
FACT: 2003 - 6.4 million visitors generating $10 BILLION in revenue for the state
FACT: 2006 & 2007 -7.6 million visitors and GROWING
LOGICAL ASSUMPTION: Typical visitor has a bit more disposable $ (at least)


Being a fan of one's locale is fantastic.
Denying reality because of it is pathetic homerism.

SPI sees a small fraction of what HI gets in terms of tourist traffic, and that's never going to change.