Anyone play in a trio? Experience?

[rockerdiva]

We may be losing our bassist. Sadly, it will be the second time we have had to lose a bassist. But the lead guitarist in this band has also played bass in other bands, and I am also an accomplished guitarist that has played limited bass in the past. Up until now I have been playing acoustic guitar in this band, but I can't play electric lead the way our lead guy does. But we were talking about how we could possibly switch off on bass duties, pull off a trio, you know? He could play bass under some of the acoustic guitar dependent tunes, I could play bass under the tunes that had to have electric solos and such ... he is a better bassist than I and I'd have to bust my butt on the tunes to get up to speed, but it is possible.

 

Plus, in this economy, it just might be the smart way to go. This is one reason our bass player might be leaving - he has a lot of new expenses now, and he also does a lot of work as a solo act.

 

Anyway, anyone want to share their experiences with a trio?

Did you miss the fuller sound of having more instrumentation, a second guitarist or keyboardist or whatever? How do you deal with parts where there are just leads and bass, (where in a larger band there would be a rhythm part underneath to fill it out?) Does it leave a big gap? Or does it not bother you?

 

Trio pros and cons?

 

Are there any bands you might point me to listen to to get an idea of how a rock trio works? Right now the only rock trio I can think of, that had a big fat sound - was Rush. Yep that's us, Rush. Ha ha.

 

Thanks in advance for any answers.

Probably the thing to do is just make a list of a few songs for us each to learn bass parts to, come together and see how it falls together, if it feels ok.

[n9ne]

When you're used to hearing that two-guitar sound, there usually is a bit of a gap during solos and fills. For some songs, the difference isn't all that noticeable...but there are also songs that really need that second guitar (or keyboard) to fill it out.

 

One thing I've always wanted to try was simulating a second guitar by splitting the bass signal and running one side of it through an octave pedal (+1 octave) and into a regular guitar amp. It obviously wouldn't sound completely authentic....but I'm thinking it would help fill up some of that empty spectrum where the rhythm guitar typically sits, in between the bass and lead guitar parts.

 

Anyone ever try this?

[pickinatit]

We just lost our "2nd" guitarist so we have become a trio + a female vocalist. We have decided to become a softer, gentler band but still play some "rockin' out" songs. One thing I have tried to do as a bass player is in the songs where the background really falls out from the lack of the rythmn guitar is to play chords on the bass (only during the lead solos when it sounds empty). You sort of use a...let's see...how do I describe this....a BOOM, strum, strum sort of thing where you attempt to maintain a bass line or at least keep on the root note and play little two or three string harmony/chords in between.

Do you get me? Am I explaining that good enough ?

 

EDIT: Hey that split signal/octave pedal deal just might work to fill out things even farther especially combined with my boom/strum combination bass/rythm technique

[musicmanmu]

My main band is a trio (the other is a five piece). While of course, you will lose some fullness, I really enjoy the trio configuration and think you can make it sound pretty full. You could try running a stereo guitar rig to fill up sound. Perhaps FX can help as well.

 

Here's some videos of my trio doing two different tunes, both of which I believe are probably better suited to 4-5 piece bands. Not sure if it helps, but at the very least it shows you that it's doable. I say go for it! It'll make you a better musician for sure!

 

[YOUTUBE]qu-dFn9RLEA[/YOUTUBE]

 

[YOUTUBE]YO9qbOJnCrA[/YOUTUBE]

[tim_7string]

I say go for it! Sometimes, you gotta do what you gotta do and we all know that bass players are usually pretty difficult to find and/or keep.

 

Our very first gig was actually a cancellation opening. We were scheduled to play in late April, but another band had another gig on Saturday, April 2nd, so that ended up being our first gig.

 

Unfortunately, the bass player couldn't play that night due to his own one-man band show, so we talked about our options: give it to another band, find a sub at the last minute (who might flub a lot of our songs), or go three-piece. We decided on the trio option because both the other guitarist and myself have played in gigging bands as bass guitarists, even though we both prefer guitar. For me, it's not just that I prefer guitar; bass physically hurts my hands after a night of playing, so I am limited to only a few songs.

 

We basically divided it up where he would play bass most of the night and I would play bass on the songs where lead guitar was showcased, like Hendrix and SRV stuff. He is a flashier player than me, while I am more of a meat-and-potatoes, I-guess-I-gotta-learn-that-solo-now kind of guy, but I love playing rhythm. It worked out pretty well and of course the money went further. It sounded tight and clean.

 

Our band was a trio again when a gig opened up during the Memorial Day weekend. The bassist was able to make it Friday night, but couldn't do it Saturday. Again, it was fun, but a bit limited.

 

To comment on something you mentioned, playing as a trio with guitar leads and bass, but no rhythm guitar (which can sound empty), because I am more of a rhythm player, I do more rhythmic-oriented leads in a trio situation: double stops, octaves, drone strings ala Pete Townshend or simply playing rhythm and leaving out a lick here and there. I have found most people don't even notice the other guitar is missing whenever I play in that fashion, but they do whenever I just play single note parts.

 

We did talk about just staying three-piece with the lead guitarist switching to bass, but part of the problem is he can't sing lead or harmony very well and neither can the drummer, so that's something we desperately needed in our band. Thankfully, our newest acquisition, a female bassist/vocalist, is great at strong lead vocals and wonderful harmony vocals as well as being a damn good bass player too, so we now sound like a real band. With her in the band, we can also add 2nd guitar and keyboards to the mix (my role as well as being the main lead singer) or I can leave them out in spots and just sing.

 

Still, if the guitarist should ever quit or move away or something, her, the drummer and I have all been in three-piece bands before and we would be able to continue on in that fashion if need be.

[New Trail]

I say go for it, stay a three piece. One of my current bands is guitar, bass, drums and singer, so three piece with a singer. Previously I had only played in bands with two guitars and a lot of times two guitars AND a keyboard player. There is a freedom that I really enjoy as the only lead instrument in the band. There are no clashes, either tonally or musically. I get to cover keyboard, trumpet, sax, and other parts on the guitar. I enjoy it.

[jeff42]

i say do it. my side project ostrich hat is 3 guys. drums, bass and acoustic guitar. we are busier than the full band now. it takes us 10 minutes to set up and 10 to tear down and we have been playing smaller bars and deck parties all summer. if u want to hear us our demo is on our website. a major part of what we do now more than ever is we acoustic-a-fy mainly fun party songs. adds a different feel to em... and its been working

[WynnD]

 

For me, it's not just that I prefer guitar; bass physically hurts my hands after a night of playing, so I am limited to only a few songs.

 

 

Really sounds like the bass you're playing is setup wrong. Bass shouldn't hurt much. (Even after an extended gap from playing and then playing a full 4 hour gig. My fingers were a little tender at the end of the night, but I could have played the next night too.)

[elbow]

I've played guitar in trios and I seem to do a decent job at it, but yeah, you gotta have a bass player and drummer that can do what they can to help fill in the solo times without it sounding too busy or crazy. The other thing is when or if you go back to a 4 piece. That takes some adjusting as well since you gotta give some of the sonic room to the other player that you were having to work hard to fill before.

[TrickyBoy]

We were a trio, and effectively still are as our forth member only sings. There are a couple of down sides.

 

Depending on the type of music you play, it becomes difficult to replicate stuff as a trio. We get around this by not even trying. We rearrange songs and make it work, but it's not easy.

 

From a stage show stand-point, trios are generally boring to watch. Everyone is attached to an instrument and generally to a mic, so there's not much going on visually.

 

That being said, I say give it a shot. If it doesn't work, add someone, but I wouldn't rush into adding another member.

[BATCAT]

 

One thing I've always wanted to try was simulating a second guitar by splitting the bass signal and running one side of it through an octave pedal (+1 octave) and into a regular guitar amp. It obviously wouldn't sound completely authentic....but I'm thinking it would help fill up some of that empty spectrum where the rhythm guitar typically sits, in between the bass and lead guitar parts. Anyone ever try this?

 

 

Not this exactly, but funny you should mention this. My situation is a little different that the OP- we were four piece original band that became a trio (drummer, bass player, and other guitarist left; I switched to bass and got a new drummer and guitarist) but I've confronted a lot of the same issues brought up by others in this thread, since we're kind of "covering" our own stuff, most of which was recorded with two, three, or four guitar parts, and sometimes keyboards.

 

But anyhow one thing I do is split my bass signal at the end of my pedalboard- one half then goes into a Line 6 Verbzilla pedal, set to the "Octo" setting- which essentially takes the reverb portion of the signal and changes it to a higher sort of synth pad/organ sound- with the mix turned almost all the way up. Right now I'm using a Roland JC 50 guitar amp for this. (with the bass turned way down; hopefull I won't blow the speaker since when the pedal is off it's running regular bass signal) Basically when I turn it on it's an instant keyboard accompanyment, really cool.

 

It makes my setup a slight pain, adds more gear, and it's sometimes tricky to get the mix right, but it adds some great textures we could not normally get.

[BATCAT]

 

Depending on the type of music you play, it becomes difficult to replicate stuff as a trio. We get around this by not even trying. We rearrange songs and make it work, but it's not easy.

 

 

Yeah, I hear you. As I posted, we're mostly original stuff, but almost everything on our past albums has layered guitars, and sometimes keys too. We had to spend some time taking a careful look at what songs we could do, and then take time figuring out how to make them sound best- in some cases it involved radically changing the song structure and arrangement. It was a lot of effort but also kind of a fun musical excercise.

[theAntihero]

I play in a trio. One thing that most people do is try to make trios sound like a 4 piece band and frankly that is never going to happen. Trios can sound huge in their own way and its a very unique very cool sort of sound. Basically as a guitarist it means that your tone always has to be more, more gain, more bass, more volume, more mids you want to totally dominate all the guitar freq because you are all thats there now. The rhythm section has to get used to doing a bit more as well and not just lay back. Personally my bassist is from the Jack Bruce style of bass playing, plays bassier and fuller than anything and uses my bugera 1960(plexi clone) into a 4x10 that he uses with his standard bass rig for filling up the sound under my leads and boosting for his leads.

[Lee Flier]

Yes, I play in a trio the last 10 years. I had never played in a trio prior to my current band, and we actually didn't start out intending to be a trio, but we never did find a second guitarist who really fit with us as well as the other three of us fit together, so we finally gave up trying and embraced being a trio. On our recordings, we usually do overdub extra guitars, vocals and sometimes other instruments. But generally we have worked up songs live before we record them, so we have a live arrangement that we can pull off with the trio.

 

I think the adjustment process was pretty intuitive for us, because everybody is very musical and listens to each other, so if there's a gap somewhere that needs to be filled, somebody will step up and fill it and I don't remember having to discuss it too much. I think that's the important thing: everybody really has to know what they're doing. You have to have a bassist and drummer who are able to vary up what they play during solos and provide additional support. It does help that my guitar style usually doesn't involve a drastic contrast between "lead" and "rhythm" - I've always tended to use a lot of riffs and passing notes in my "rhythm" playing and not just strum chords, and my solos tend to have a lot of double stops and chordal melodies rather than a whole lot of single notes. I use a boost pedal for leads and sometimes a delay. And that's about it.

 

If you think about it there are a lot of bands who are technically trios with a vocalist: Led Zeppelin, the Who, REM, U2, Cheap Trick, etc... and then there are trios like the Police and Nirvana... none of which are really your typical "power trio" and all of whom have a lot going on for a trio. My band is more in that vein plus we do a lot of harmonies, which adds a whole other dimension. So you really don't have to be Rush or Cream to be a trio.

[tim_7string]

 

Really sounds like the bass you're playing is setup wrong. Bass shouldn't hurt much. (Even after an extended gap from playing and then playing a full 4 hour gig. My fingers were a little tender at the end of the night, but I could have played the next night too.)

 

 

Another part of the equation is that I have mild nerve damage in my hands and feet from Type II Diabetes, so I try not to push my digits too far.

[SeniorBlues]

I feel like an intruder in this thread suggesting that guitar/bass/drums isn't the only trio option. I was delighted when our bass player left, leaving me to play LH bass.

[musicmanmu]

From a stage show stand-point, trios are generally boring to watch. Everyone is attached to an instrument and generally to a mic, so there's not much going on visually.

[ChordGirl]

 

I feel like an intruder in this thread suggesting that guitar/bass/drums isn't the only trio option. I was delighted when our bass player left, leaving me to play LH bass.

 

 

That's the same with me. My version of a trio leaves out the drums with either two guitars/bass or guitar/bass/mando or fiddle. But of course, we have only played a handful of bars where drums are the norm.

 

Rockerdiva, are you able to sing as well while playing bass as playing guitar?

[Old Fart Rocker]

My rock cover/original band is a trio, guitar-bass-drums. I enjoy this format. As a guitar player it's somewhat liberating. I've never really felt that we're missing anything. We've had a keyboard friend of ours sit in on some of our cover gigs which certainly adds to the overall sound and allows us to do a few songs that we normally wouldn't do. But, I don't miss him when he's not there. We still do a lot of kb songs as a three piece. I just cover the kb parts on guitar. We do Abacab by Genesis as a 3 piece and I just play everything on guitar. It's funny, when people see a trio walk on stage there doesn't seem to be this big expectation from the crowd as there is when we have a full lineup. In fact, people often tell us that it took them a while to realize it was just 3 of us on stage. I think it helps that all three of us sing and we work on having good harmonies. I also add a little echo to my guitar tone to fill in space.

[BATCAT]

 

That's the same with me. My version of a trio leaves out the drums with either two guitars/bass or guitar/bass/mando or fiddle. But of course, we have only played a handful of bars where drums are the norm. Rockerdiva, are you able to sing as well while playing bass as playing guitar?

 

 

You didn't ask me, but since I recently went from vocals/guitar to vocals/bass, I'll chime in: for me at least, playing bass and singing was pretty hard at first. It took some practice to feel like I wasn't really compromising one or the other.

[ChordGirl]

You didn't ask me, but since I recently went from vocals/guitar to vocals/bass, I'll chime in: for me at least, playing bass and singing was pretty hard at first. It took some practice to feel like I wasn't really compromising one or the other.

 

I believe it is harder, at least it would be for me. There are still certain vocals juxtaposing strange rhythms that I have to work out until it becomes natural to me. It's good to know you were able to eventually do both just as well.

[BATCAT]

I believe it is harder, at least it would be for me. There are still certain vocals juxtaposing strange rhythms that I have to work out until it becomes natural to me. It's good to know you were able to eventually do both just as well.

 

There's something weird about the sound of one's instrument suddenly being way lower; it really messed with me vocally until I adjusted.

 

And yeah, the rhythmic thing is toughest of all (and I play drums too!), and still limits me to a certain extent. For some songs, it's a matter of just practicing and kind of "letting go" and trusting your hands will do the right thing. But for others I've actually had to break down my vocal rhythms to find which syllables fall on- and between- which notes. To me it's almost like learning beats on a drumset made of your hands and mouth.

 

Of course, all of the rhythmic issues can apply to guitar playing too, but I had an easier time dodging it when I played guitar.

[SeniorBlues]

 

It's funny, when people see a trio walk on stage there doesn't seem to be this big expectation from the crowd as there is when we have a full lineup. In fact, people often tell us that it took them a while to realize it was just 3 of us on stage. I think it helps that all three of us sing and we work on having good harmonies.

 

 

The freedom thing was a revelation to my guitar player. People see three of you and give you license to play it the way it suits you, rather than the studio version.

 

And yeah, three singers really helps.

[ChordGirl]

 

For some songs, it's a matter of just practicing and kind of "letting go" and trusting your hands will do the right thing. But for others I've actually had to break down my vocal rhythms to find which syllables fall on- and between- which notes.

 

 

It's the exact same for me.

 

As a side note, I always thought drumming and singing simultaneously would be the most difficult. Lead-singing drummers are a rare breed.

[BATCAT]

 

It's the exact same for me. As a side note, I always thought drumming and singing simultaneously would be the most difficult.

 

 

I refuse to even try. I'm using both my feet and both my hands already. Leave me alone!