How do you correct something without upsetting other members?

[msmooth]

What is the best way to correct an incorrect chord or note being played by another, without coming across as a dick?

 

I'm playing in a 4 piece band (Guitar/ guitar & keys/bass and drums). I have played with the bass player on and off for about 25 years and the guitar & key guy has played with the drummer before. the four of us have been together since June of this year.

 

Last night we doing a song where the chord progression was Am - G/B - C and something didn't sound right. The middle chord is more a single not passing tone where the B is played but not a full G chord. I checked with Bass 1st and he was playing the B. I asked the other guitar what he was playing and he also said the B. We did it again and I watched what he was playing. He was holding the Am and fingering the B along with it. I then mentioned that it was not correct and the the Am clashed with what the others were playing. I thought I did so in a diplomatic way, but I think he got upset with me as he didn't seem into the rest of the practice.

 

The bassist and I have known each other so long we can argue and get past it. I don't want to be a dick, but I want things to be correct. BTW, we are not a note for note cover band. There are a number of things that we do "not like the record" that we have done by agreement. However, most of that deals with the arrangment of the song and not the chord structure.

[Lee Knight]

 

I then mentioned that it was not correct

 

 

Correct? Am/G might be correct too, and you're playing a G/B?!?!? So, let's say you're right. The jury's still out till you confirm it. Together. You don't "correct" him. You confirm it together. You decide what you're both going to play and then play it. Together. As a team.

 

Are you saying you're trying to learn a recording. You've got it right and he's got it wrong? Maybe. But don't be so sure till you confirm it together. That's what comes off as being a dick. This... correcting...

[GCDEF]

Other guy is too thin skinned. As long as you don't call him names, there's nothing wrong with pointing out when somebody has a part wrong. Nobody learns everything 100% correctly and it sounds like he didn't notice the clash. I'd forget about it. As long as he's now playing it correctly, he'll get over it.

[Vito Corleone]

You know, for as long as I've been doing this and for all the great people I've worked with, there is STILL always the issue of some ruffled feathers when it comes to "correcting" chords. I think it's just a natural thing that whenever somebody has put the time in to learn a song as best they can that they don't really want to be wrong.

 

If there's a conflict on how a chord should be played, and we don't easily resolve it by trying it both ways and everyone agreeing that "THAT way sounds best", then we'll defer to the original recording.

 

The best thing is to just try and be diplomatic---"hmmm, I think I heard it THIS way and I think it might be right, but I dunno. Let's try BOTH ways and see what sounds best?" Then if you still don't agree then say "well, let's play the CD again and see if we can figure out which version sounds closer".

[TIMKEYS]

The best tie breaker in the band is a keyboard. Its pretty easy to schlock a guitar chord and think its right. You lay out a basic three note chord on a keyboard ,,, and it becomes clear pretty fast,, because its pretty hard to bull{censored} a chord with a keyboard without it sounding bad. I used to get into chord debates all the time..... I typically solved the deal by just useing the keys as the tie breaker. hope this helps

[GCDEF]

I don't know why people get so offended over being corrected. If I'm playing something wrong, I would hope somebody in my band would stop and let me know. Working out the kinks is just part of rehearsing. I don't have the patience to tiptoe around people who would get offended over something so trivial.

[SeniorBlues]

What's the melody line on top of the bass line? Fill in the third voice (and fourth if you like) and you've got it.

 

I like my current guitar player because I'd be inclined to try a Bm7+5 for the second chord and he'll actually like it.

[Kramerguy]

we all call each other assholes and fart on each other. A simple chord correct is miles behind our social order. If someone can't take something as simple as basic criticism or corrections, then they wouldn't last long in our band anyways. The best way, is always the direct way. {censored} em if they can't take it.

[Vito Corleone]

 

What's the melody line on top of the bass line? Fill in the third voice (and fourth if you like) and you've got it. I like my current guitar player because I'd be inclined to try a Bm7+5 for the second chord and he'll actually like it.

 

Hard to guess what chord would be the correct one or even the best alternative choice without knowing what song it is.

 

Adding that "A" to his G/B might sound great; might sound worse.

[Vito Corleone]

 

we all call each other assholes and fart on each other. A simple chord correct is miles behind our social order. If someone can't take something as simple as basic criticism or corrections, then they wouldn't last long in our band anyways. The best way, is always the direct way. {censored} em if they can't take it.

 

 

Haha. Sounds like you'd fit right in with our bunch. Craziest thing is we somehow managed to find two GIRLS who have a good time hangin' with us...

[SeniorBlues]

 

Hard to guess what chord would be the correct on or even the best alternative choice without knowing what song it is. Adding that "A" to his G/B might sound great; might sound worse.

 

 

As I said, you want to know the melody, but beyond that, I think "sounding good" is a matter of playing consistently in a style, even if the popular recording doesn't include the extensions you like. It has to fit with what everyone else is doing, which is the point of the thread, but just to keep this OT, you have to have an established way of resolving these kinds of issues. It's part of creating a band "voice", and hopefully you trust one person who knows what they're doing to be the final arbiter.

 

How do you guys determine harmony parts? One authority, I hope. Same with chords.

[Lee Knight]

 

Other guy is too thin skinned. As long as you don't call him names, there's nothing wrong with pointing out when somebody has a part wrong. Nobody learns everything 100% correctly and it sounds like he didn't notice the clash. I'd forget about it. As long as he's now playing it correctly, he'll get over it.

 

 

Agree with that... but... not knowing the situation and the players involved...

 

I've had guys "correct" me when I was actually making the point, "Maybe this voicing would be cool!" Or we just hadn't worked it out yet. So, for me, the concept of "correct" can be kind of bush. I'm not saying it is, but if I approached musicians who I wanted to verify some voicings or basic agreed upon chords with, with the idea of "correcting" them...

 

...I'm going to get a rep as a dick. Like some guys I know. There is no correct unless you're really just learning the basics. Still, even then teh assumption of "correcting" is dick-esque. So I maintain you work together to reach an agreed upon conclusion, you don't correct.

 

Unless it's your tune and you know exactly what you want and you've tried out the options and just want to cut to the chase.

 

Thin skinned? Sounds like the guys thin skinned, yes. But it also sounds like our man here was making some assumptions as well.

[Vito Corleone]

 

How do you guys determine harmony parts? One authority, I hope. Same with chords.

 

 

It really just depends. Our band is much more like KramerGuy described in that we've been playing together so long that nobody gets offended over much of ANYTHING anymore, and certainly not chord changes or harmony parts. And calling each other names and giving each other a huge pile of {censored} is just part of the sense of humor we have. If your skin is thin, you aren't going to last long in this band anyway.

 

Generally I'm probably the main authority for chords because, like Tim suggested, the guy at the keys has the best ability to hammer out different chords quickly, and I'm probably the only guy who learned the main chords and the bass notes. But I get told I'm wrong sometimes and sometimes I am. I can usually hear the more correct change someone else is playing pretty quickly and like I said, if there's any issue, we'll go to the CD as the last resort. We all have good enough ears that we're not going to argue with the CD. Occassionally someone will say "yeah, but I think it'd be cooler to play THIS chord instead" and if we all agree, we do. I suppose I usually get final say on such things. If I REALLY put my foot down about a chord change or harmony part, it's going to go the way I want it. I suppose I do have that authority. But I don't wield it much.

 

Harmony parts have been, to this point, pretty much up to me. Since I have the ear for it (and probably because I'm the keyboard guy too) I'm the one who shows up having figured out the parts and then showing different people what to sing. But I've got some help with that now as this new girl we've added has a great ear for harmony and plays piano a bit, so she's taken it upon herself to show up to rehearsal with the parts worked out. Which is cool. I'm more than happy to let her do all that work. Then it's just a matter of figuring out who sings which part.

 

But I suppose I'm the final authority there as well. Last week we were learning a couple of old Chic songs and the girls wanted to add more harmony parts than were on the original recordings. But, to my ear, having the two girls sing in unison is what made those songs sound like Chic. Adding harmonies is cool in one sense, but just ruins the tracks for me. So I overrode their desire to do that.

 

I'm sure Rogers and Edwards could have found girls who could sing harmony--and I'm guessing those two could--and I'm also going to guess that they probably tried harmony arrangements but decided the unison-thing was going to be part of their 'style'. Who am I to say that THOSE guys were wrong or could have done anything BETTER?

[msmooth]

"correct" may not have been the most accurate word to use... I asked the band to stop. I said that something didn't sound right and tried to figure out what notes we were playing. I pointed out that what he was playing didn't sound right with what the bassist and I were playing and showed him a different fingering that he might want to try. After he changed the fingering it did sound better. I really did try to be diplomatic. When we stopped, the bass player assumed he was on the wrong note, but he wasn't.

[GCDEF]

 

...I'm going to get a rep as a dick. Like some guys I know. There is no correct unless you're really just learning the basics. Still, even then teh assumption of "correcting" is dick-esque. So I maintain you work together to reach an agreed upon conclusion, you don't correct.

 

 

If you're doing covers there most certainly is a correct and a not correct. Everybody learns their parts, you come to rehearsal and play the songs. From time to time somebody's going to hear something incorrectly or have a tough time figuring something out. It's perfectly okay to correct somebody or be corrected. That's just part of it.

[Kramerguy]

 

"correct" may not have been the most accurate word to use... I asked the band to stop. I said that something didn't sound right and tried to figure out what notes we were playing. I pointed out that what he was playing didn't sound right with what the bassist and I were playing and showed him a different fingering that he might want to try. After he changed the fingering it did sound better. I really did try to be diplomatic. When we stopped, the bass player assumed he was on the wrong note, but he wasn't.

 

 

That's more or less what we do.. if something is wrong, we (whoever notices) stop the song, and flesh out the dissonance, even if it takes a drawn out process of having each person hit each chord and overlay each other slowly and patiently... it happens. If the person who was at fault can't take the correction in stride and buck up, AND nobody wants to upset him and walks on eggshells all the time with him, well.. it's only going to be a matter of time before it falls apart.

[Remedy]

I think u really f*#%d up here. Never ever tell another band member when they are playing a wrong chord, its way too offensive and I can see why he reacted the way he did. im surprised he didnt actually walk out of practice

[rangefinder]

 

showed him a different fingering that he might want to try.

 

 

That might be the part that got his nose out of joint. After all... isn't he supposed to KNOW that sort of thing already? (I'm not sure since I'm not a guitarist...) In any case I might take it off-line with him at that detailed level to avoid showing him up in front of the rest of the band.

[srspud]

Record it and play it back for them. If it is dissonant it should stand out and that would make it obvious to the person playing it.

[MusicalSchizo]

I'm a dick about this stuff, so I have no advice on how to smooth it over. Tell him he's {censored}ing wrong, and if he doesn't believe you, prove it with the recording. Anytime I've been corrected (not frequently, because I have a good ear), I happily defer once I've heard what I've gotten wrong. If someone can't, well, {censored} them and their weak souls, as far as I'm concerned.

 

I don't believe in most cases with cover bands people are playing it "wrong" intentionally to make it more interesting. In my experience it's been a lack of ear or a lack of giving a {censored} or both. Now, the level of "give a {censored}" should be something that all members are comfortable with (there are varying degrees of anal-retentiveness in learning songs, for sure), but if someone's clashing, they usually have nothing to stand on and need to get it right, lest the band sound like {censored}.

 

People need to get over themselves about things like this. If your ego is too large to defer to a bandmate with a better ear, you're not serving the music, you're serving yourself. Music suffers when your ego gets in the way.

Brian V.

[KeysBear]

I say something like "I need some help with this, what are you playing at "XX" because I'm playing "X" chord and something seems off, could be me I'm not sure" even though I know it's not me and the other guy didn't do his homework or is just being lazy. Then when he tells me he's playing "Y" I say "ok, can you make it easy for me and play "X" there?"

[StratGuy22]

Alway refer to the CD. Either he's right, or you're right. I remember rehearsing "I want you to want me" and the other guitarist was wrong on the structure, I brought it up, and he insisted he was right. I KNEW I was right. We rented a warehouse bay for our practice space, and each guy paid $80/month for it. Rent was due, to the other guitarist, whose name the shop was in.

 

I said "I'll bet you $80, I'm right" he said ok, and then we listened to it. I was right and so I didn't have to pay rent that month.

 

 

Later on I had another comment about a song. He disagreed, and the bass player piped in....

 

 

"wanna bet???"

 

 

 

 

If I'm doing something wrong, tell me, it's cool. Not a big deal.

 

[Vito Corleone]

Alway refer to the CD. Either he's right, or you're right. I remember rehearsing "I want you to want me" and the other guitarist was wrong on the structure, I brought it up, and he insisted he was right. I KNEW I was right. We rented a warehouse bay for our practice space, and each guy paid $80/month for it. Rent was due, to the other guitarist, whose name the shop was in. I said "I'll bet you $80, I'm right" he said ok, and then we listened to it. I was right and so I didn't have to pay rent that month. Later on I had another comment about a song. He disagreed, and the bass player piped in.... "wanna bet???"

 

 

Tossing out a five dollar bill to back up such "bets" is pretty common at our rehearsals. That fiver has made the rounds quite a few times!

[n9ne]

Every band runs into this issue from time to time.....two guys playing slightly different chords or notes on the same part, and they just don't mesh.

 

In my bands, we usually examine what each guy is doing, then we'll have the full band do it both ways....first try it one way, then go back and try it the other way. Whichever way sounds better with the full band doing it is the one we use.

[Lee Knight]

 

If you're doing covers there most certainly is a correct and a not correct. Everybody learns their parts, you come to rehearsal and play the songs. From time to time somebody's going to hear something incorrectly or have a tough time figuring something out. It's perfectly okay to correct somebody or be corrected. That's just part of it.

 

 

Paradigm disconnect.

 

I'm really coming from an arrangement of original material perspective. I sometimes forget the cover angle. Still, if you have aspirations of doing your own stuff and doing something well, it's good to start looking at things as open possibilities. It's freaking easy to learn the CD. Not always easy to come up with unique voicings that further the tune.

 

It's why I bristle at "correct". I'm a theory guy. The more I learn, the less correct I find there is. And I'm still learning.

 

But yes, when it comes to finding out what was played on record and two people have different versions. Of course there is only one "correct". And while I don't like eggshell walks, I don't like guys playing one-ups-man-ship with music either. To me there is a big difference between saying, "I'm pretty sure the guy on the record's playing this... " and saying, "That's not correct."