Vocalists, what do you like to hear in your monitors?

[stratotastic]

We've been bringing in more and more 3- and 4-part vocal arrangements which means I've been singing more than I used to, and trying some fairly tricky stuff, at least for me. The problem I have is that I always seem to have trouble hearing myself and finding my parts while playing live.

 

I'm curious, when given the choice of having your own monitor mix, what you like to hear in terms of vocals? Do you skew it heavily towards your own, or do you like to hear everything somewhat equally for the blend, or somewhere in between?

[tim_7string]

Like most singers, I want to hear myself the most in the monitor, followed by a lesser mix of the other vocalists. This is so I can hear my part most prominently, whether I'm doing the lead or one of the harmony parts. If I can't hear myself, I start singing louder and may start screaming or going off-key from pushing myself too hard.

 

Oh, and I always back off the mic for harmony parts so it blends into the background more (good mic technique), rather than singing them at the same volume as my leads.

[StratGuy22]

I like to hear lots of me, and then the other lead singer as well. Then some of the other two singers.

[kmart]

I sing b. vox, and always want lead vox more than my vox, then any other b. vox at a level less than mine.

[Thy God]

I sing b. vox, and always want lead vox more than my vox, then any other b. vox at a level less than mine.

 

Of course you don't want butthole vox in your monitors, that should go without saying.

[astone923]

Being a tenor, as long as the guy singing bass part isn't in my ear I'm okay... that just screws me up.

[Vito Corleone]

Switching to IEMs has been a godsend for our vocals. We've taken to throwing in some 3 and 4 part harmony acapella bits (a measure or two here and there--we're not a barbershop quartet or anything) just because we CAN.

 

It took me awhile to get the vocal mix right, but personally I like to hear all the voices, including mine, at just about the same level. I feel like I'm blending better that way, and the extra bit of my own voice that's 'in my head' is enough to give me that extra "more me" I might need.

[Lee Knight]

I want an even mix of vocalists. Nobody's louder. Then the backups... backup. I hate bad vocal mixes. The only way to do it is to be a musician about it and control it through performance. Of course, if you've got a great soundman who knows the gig and you have a rackety stage, I go with a "more me" mix and everyone eating the mike. But that's a recipe for hack if your guy isn't up to it. Hint: He isn't.

[Lee Knight]

 

Switching to IEMs has been a godsend for our vocals. We've taken to throwing in some 3 and 4 part harmony acapella bits (a measure or two here and there--we're not a barbershop quartet or anything) just because we CAN. It took me awhile to get the vocal mix right, but personally I like to hear all the voices, including mine, at just about the same level. I feel like I'm blending better that way, and the extra bit of my own voice that's 'in my head' is enough to give me that extra "more me" I might need.

 

 

^^^^^^

[Louis Schwartz]

I sing lead and need to hear a realistic representation of the blend that's going out of the FOH. My vocals are, by default, more prominent in the mix, but I control how prominent with my mic technique and volume. I have to be able to stand out and blend into the background at will.

 

Louis

[dan88z]

I like my voice the loudest, then the other vocals at about 2/3 of my volume. Sometimes a little guitar depending on how far away he is and what kind of room we're in, or outdoors.

[TIMKEYS]

Has what to do with vocalists?

nothing ,, misread the topic . i will pull it

[Chicken Monkey]

I never trust the soundman, and just want what's coming out of the monitors coming at me so I can regulate my volume as needed.

[ChordGirl]

 

I sing lead and need to hear a realistic representation of the blend that's going out of the FOH. My vocals are, by default, more prominent in the mix, but I control how prominent with my mic technique and volume. I have to be able to stand out and blend into the background at will. Louis

 

 

+1

 

This includes instruments except drums, unless the stage volume is whacked and there's an amp or two up my arse. In that case, I want all the vocals blended exactly like the FOH mix and nothing else in the monitors.

[mstreck]

 

We've been bringing in more and more 3- and 4-part vocal arrangements which means I've been singing more than I used to, and trying some fairly tricky stuff, at least for me. The problem I have is that I always seem to have trouble hearing myself and finding my parts while playing live.

 

 

Maybe try an IEM that lets you control how much of your vocal you're getting?

[SeniorBlues]

 

The problem I have is that I always seem to have trouble hearing myself and finding my parts while playing live.

 

 

Interesting . . . nobody's addressed the second concern - finding your part. I think it depends on what part you usually sing (relative to lead). I practice singing the lead phrase (to myself) that leads into the harmony, and treat it like a continuation of the line. Repeat, repeat.

[WynnD]

Our lead vocalist wants only himself in his IEMs. The rest of the band has vocals and sax in the monitors. And the guitarist keeps asking for keyboard in the monitor. (Hey, I'm playing through a Leslie, if he can't hear me, he should turn down! The thing is already screaming in my ears. Horn at head level!) The sax player wants mostly sax in his monitor. (And nearly no lead vocal.) I don't use a monitor and judge things from the other monitors onstage and noise isolating headphones generally on the main mix. (Being the sound guy sucks until they have to have anyone else run sound. Then they come worshipping. Hate those clubs that have their own PA. The sound engineers are a real mixed bag.)

[msmooth]

my vocals in my in-ears. However, I only use 1 of the ear pieces and can hear the other vocalist from the florr monitoprs and the stage music in my open ear.

[wardjames]

One thing to considerer, if you can't hear yourself, is to adjust the EQ of your monitor, rather than just turning it up. I spent some time one afternoon adjusting my monitor through a graphic EQ to get it just the way I wanted it, and (1) allows me to hear myself better and (2) reduces the volume I need in my monitor.

 

This past Friday we played at a place with a soundman and the monitors were really bassy, and I kept having to ask for them to be turned up, but it was really an EQ issue rather than a volume issue.

[gonzobassman]

I try to run the vocals the same on all our monitor mixes (4).That way when singing backup you can guage how far to back off to get the right blend,and since the vocal levels are basically mirrored in the FOH,it becomes a true vocal representation of what is going on out front.As far as the instumentation goes everyone can have what they want,but I try to keep it as close to the main mix as possible.They are monitors,and I try to use them as such.

[SpaceNorman]

 

Interesting . . . nobody's addressed the second concern - finding your part. I think it depends on what part you usually sing (relative to lead). I practice singing the lead phrase (to myself) that leads into the harmony, and treat it like a continuation of the line. Repeat, repeat.

 

 

I assumed the OP was talking about "finding" your part as part of the whole hearing yourself in the monitors sort of thing. If it's a how do I "find" my part from a musical perspective, then the first thing to realize is that he should have brought it with him to the stage! A vocalist "searching" for his/her part in the middle of a show is never pretty.

 

For me, harmonizing is not a natural talent. I have to first identify the harmony line I need to sing. Next I have to learn exactly what my starting note is - usually in relation to what my hands are playing on my keys. Then, I have to practice nailing that starting note and singing the line as an integral part of any woodshedding I do on the tune. Once I've truly learned my part - I can deliver it consistently night in and night out (even with a multi-beer handicap!). But if I don't know exactly where it is when I walk out on stage - I ain't gonna find it no matter what is happening in the monitors.

[SeniorBlues]

 

I assumed the OP was talking about "finding" your part as part of the whole hearing yourself in the monitors sort of thing. If it's a how do I "find" my part from a musical perspective, then the first thing to realize is that he should have brought it with him to the stage! A vocalist "searching" for his/her part in the middle of a show is never pretty. For me, harmonizing is not a natural talent. I have to first identify the harmony line I need to sing. Next I have to learn exactly what my starting note is - usually in relation to what my hands are playing on my keys. Then, I have to practice nailing that starting note and singing the line as an integral part of any woodshedding I do on the tune. Once I've truly learned my part - I can deliver it consistently night in and night out (even with a multi-beer handicap!). But if I don't know exactly where it is when I walk out on stage - I ain't gonna find it no matter what is happening in the monitors.

 

 

Generally I agree with you, but I have seen guys who can find a part by listening to what's happening. It won't always be the "best" part that you would have worked out ahead of time, but it can be done.

 

Another issue - the leslie horn in your ear!! The biggest problem for keyboards in general is having to sit right on top of your amp in a confined space. Seems to me you have to mic it and treat it as a monitor so you can hear everything else. Before monitors, we accomplished this with a second Leslie.

[stratotastic]

 

I assumed the OP was talking about "finding" your part as part of the whole hearing yourself in the monitors sort of thing. If it's a how do I "find" my part from a musical perspective, then the first thing to realize is that he should have brought it with him to the stage! A vocalist "searching" for his/her part in the middle of a show is never pretty. For me, harmonizing is not a natural talent. I have to first identify the harmony line I need to sing. Next I have to learn exactly what my starting note is - usually in relation to what my hands are playing on my keys. Then, I have to practice nailing that starting note and singing the line as an integral part of any woodshedding I do on the tune. Once I've truly learned my part - I can deliver it consistently night in and night out (even with a multi-beer handicap!). But if I don't know exactly where it is when I walk out on stage - I ain't gonna find it no matter what is happening in the monitors.

 

 

 

Thanks for all the replies so far guys (I'm OP in case you lost track). Sounds like the monitor mix thing is basically personal preference.

 

As for finding the part, yes that's the underlying issue. Probably just my lack of skill or confidence or something. If my line is above the lead, I really don't have trouble hitting the part. We do Lovin Touchin and Renegade where I'm doing the 3rd above the root and it's pretty easy to find and hit. It's like, if I can get enough breath behind something and belt it out, it's easier for me. But when I'm below the lead, it's a whole different thing.

 

For example, we do Ronstadt's When Will I Be Loved, with the vocal arrangement opening with B, E, G# (for you guitarists, it's the D-shaped E chord without the root)--my part is the B. During rehearsal I can usually hit it, but at shows, I seem to be always stepping on someone else, at which point I just back off completely. Switching parts isn't really a good option based on our natural ranges.

 

Who knows, maybe it's just a mental block thing--I've practiced the {censored} out of that part, but when it comes game time, it's almost always trouble. (Funny thing is, we also do It's So Easy, same vocal parts, and I find it just fine.) Maybe with some more ear work or something it'll come easier. But I was also thinking maybe hearing myself better in the mix might help, which is why I was asking what you guys do about yours.

[SpaceNorman]

 

Who knows, maybe it's just a mental block thing--I've practiced the {censored} out of that part, but when it comes game time, it's almost always trouble. (Funny thing is, we also do It's So Easy, same vocal parts, and I find it just fine.) Maybe with some more ear work or something it'll come easier. But I was also thinking maybe hearing myself better in the mix might help, which is why I was asking what you guys do about yours.

 

 

Sounds to me like the trouble you're having is finding the note that your harmony part starts with. When I run into one of those - I lean heavily on my instrument to help me. First and foremost - I make sure I know exactly what note my part starts on (i.e., the name of the note). I then get that note in my head by playing that note on my keyboard before I have to sing my harmony part. In most cases that means a single short pop of that note all by itself, followed by a single short pop of the chord in which it appears. I'll turn my volume way down just before we start a tune to "find" my note. Sometimes, if I'm struggling - I'll play emphasis that note with my keyboard in the leadup to the start of the singing part or as we actually start the singing part. I find that if I can hear the starting note that I'm shooting for - I can hit it and usually go on from there without much problem.

[SeniorBlues]

 

Thanks for all the replies so far guys (I'm OP in case you lost track). Sounds like the monitor mix thing is basically personal preference. As for finding the part, yes that's the underlying issue. Probably just my lack of skill or confidence or something. If my line is above the lead, I really don't have trouble hitting the part. We do Lovin Touchin and Renegade where I'm doing the 3rd above the root and it's pretty easy to find and hit. It's like, if I can get enough breath behind something and belt it out, it's easier for me. But when I'm below the lead, it's a whole different thing. For example, we do Ronstadt's When Will I Be Loved, with the vocal arrangement opening with B, E, G# (for you guitarists, it's the D-shaped E chord without the root)--my part is the B. During rehearsal I can usually hit it, but at shows, I seem to be always stepping on someone else, at which point I just back off completely. Switching parts isn't really a good option based on our natural ranges. Who knows, maybe it's just a mental block thing--I've practiced the {censored} out of that part, but when it comes game time, it's almost always trouble. (Funny thing is, we also do It's So Easy, same vocal parts, and I find it just fine.) Maybe with some more ear work or something it'll come easier. But I was also thinking maybe hearing myself better in the mix might help, which is why I was asking what you guys do about yours.

 

 

Third above tends to be pretty easy to find - the benefit of having a high range. The part below can be harder to hear but it gets easier with repetition - that's going to be your part pretty much all the time.

 

A couple ideas. . . . 1) sing the lead line leading up to the harmony part, then continue with your part. Practice, then sing with confidence. Don't let them throw you. 2) Another approach is to identify a word (note) in the melody that is the same as your starting part. Sing it to yourself so you don't lose it. 3) Sometimes you can use your instrument to cue you. . . . a line, inversion, etc.